UA93: "Transponder On" at 10:05

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UA93: "Transponder On" at 10:05; according to FAA transcript
Topic Started: Apr 25 2009, 05:11 PM (1,311 Views)
Domenick DiMaggio	May 19 2009, 01:35 AM Post #26
Posts: 1,939 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	Boonedoggled May 18 2009, 10:22 PM Dom thats what i get from those coordinates....... i mean thats where you would be going with this if you have an ounce of honesty in your body. Which coordinates, the ones that place it one half mile southwest of the crash site, the ones that place it 13 miles south of the crash site, or the ones that place it 60 miles south the crash site? If you had an honest bone in your body, you wouldn't dismiss everything that contradicts your theory. you always say south but its southeast....which is the direction the plane coming from the northwest was heading but i digress.... the common denominator in all of that is they place the plane past the crash site. witnesses in indian lake heard/saw the plane fly over indian lake which is past the crash site. this is called corroboration. i don't know where the plane ended up. i know where it didn't end up which is in that empty hole in the ground in shanksville. p.s. anything that places the plane past the crash site doesn't "contradict" my "theory" which is based on eyewitness accounts. Quote: I don't put too much stock in anything that came from the Secret Service. really? so if a plane crashed at camp david they wouldn't be a credible source for information is your statement? Quote: You may have noticed that they had a Northwest flight coming out of Pittsburgh towards DC. They also had Flight 93 crashing at Camp David, northeast of Camp David, northwest of Camp David, flying down the river toward DC, flying up the river toward DC, and then eventually crashing in Shanksville. what do we have as far as a transponder signal? i see it as past the crash site and at 8200'. Quote: Click the link again and download the PDF. i will. there is definitely some fascinating stuff in there. Edited by Domenick DiMaggio, May 19 2009, 01:36 AM.
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Woody Box	May 19 2009, 02:28 PM Post #27
Posts: 118 Group: Members Member #109 Joined: 01/17/08	Boonedoggled May 18 2009, 10:22 PM You may have noticed that they had a Northwest flight coming out of Pittsburgh towards DC. They also had Flight 93 crashing at Camp David, northeast of Camp David, northwest of Camp David, flying down the river toward DC, flying up the river toward DC, and then eventually crashing in Shanksville. Careful, Boonedoggled. Your list is impressive, but too long: Flight 93 was never reported to have crashed northwest of Camp David, and it was never reported to fly up the river toward DC. To me it looks like these invalid (and, in the case of "fly up", idiotic) additions are intended to create the impression that the controllers were overworked and mixed up the targets on their radar screens. Or maybe they were on drugs - is it that where you want to go? I promise you that aside from Dom's stuff there is enough material on the market now to reconstruct a consistent Flight 93 path between Shanksville and DC. The crash at Camp David, however, is probably dis- or misinformation.
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Domenick DiMaggio	May 19 2009, 03:53 PM Post #28
Posts: 1,939 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	Woody Box May 19 2009, 02:28 PM Careful, Boonedoggled. Your list is impressive, but too long: *Flight 93 was never reported to have crashed northwest* of Camp David, and it was never reported to fly up the river toward DC. To me it looks like these invalid (and, in the case of "fly up", idiotic) additions are intended to create the impression that the controllers were overworked and mixed up the targets on their radar screens. Or maybe they were on drugs - is it that where you want to go? yes now you see boondoggled true colors. Quote: The crash at Camp David, however, is probably dis- or misinformation.** agreed.
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Boonedoggled	May 20 2009, 09:55 AM Post #29
Posts: 228 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: 01/15/08	Woody Box Your list is impressive, but too long: Flight 93 was never reported to have crashed northwest of Camp David, and it was never reported to fly up the river toward DC. "...1432:42: to John: Secret Service is reporting one unknown 8 miles out flying in bound. Tiger Watch... ... 1434:18: to John: Trying to tell Secret Service (on other line) about 93-they are a little behind, still getting reports... ... 1435:10 to John: Secret Service is saying the aircraft they are talking is coming up the Potomac, right now.” Source "Coming up the river" can also be heard 21 minutes into this recording. When I find the recording with the Secret Service reporting 93 crashing northwest of Camp David I'll post it here and then we can discuss how "idiotic" my "invalid additions" are. Quote: To me it looks like these invalid (and, in the case of "fly up", idiotic) additions are intended to create the impression that the controllers were overworked and mixed up the targets on their radar screens. Or maybe they were on drugs - is it that where you want to go? I was referring to the Secret Service.
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Woody Box	May 20 2009, 01:57 PM Post #30
Posts: 118 Group: Members Member #109 Joined: 01/17/08	Boonedoggled May 20 2009, 09:55 AM Woody Box Your list is impressive, but too long: Flight 93 was never reported to have crashed northwest of Camp David, and it was never reported to fly up the river toward DC. "...1432:42: to John: Secret Service is reporting one unknown 8 miles out flying in bound. Tiger Watch... ... 1434:18: to John: Trying to tell Secret Service (on other line) about 93-they are a little behind, still getting reports... ... 1435:10 to John: Secret Service is saying the aircraft they are talking is coming up the Potomac, right now.” Source When I find the recording with the Secret Service reporting 93 crashing northwest of Camp David I'll post it here and then we can discuss how "idiotic" my "invalid additions" are. I'm not satisfied. Here is what you stated: Quote: They also had Flight 93 crashing at Camp David, northeast of Camp David, northwest of Camp David, flying down the river toward DC, flying up the river toward DC, and then eventually crashing in Shanksville. Your (interesting, btw) source says that Flight 93 is coming up the Potomac. Nobody says it is heading toward DC, which would be idiotic, because the Potomac runs down toward DC, doesn't he? Sorry if this looks like hair-splitting. But we're talking about very sensible informations of historical relevance, and I can't allow you to obliterate details. The same goes for the crash northeast/northwest of Camp David. I only know northeast, and I am looking forward for your "northwest" source.
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Boonedoggled	May 20 2009, 04:19 PM Post #31
Posts: 228 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: 01/15/08	Woody Box Your (interesting, btw) source says that Flight 93 is coming up the Potomac. Nobody says it is heading toward DC, which would be idiotic, because the Potomac runs down toward DC, doesn't he? Do they have to say toward DC? If the F-16 departing out of Andrews radios DCA TRACON and says that he is there to check out the aircraft coming up the river, wouldn't you assume that the aircraft is doing just that, coming up the river toward DC? According to the transcript: "1404:02: to John: Secret Service is saying there is a Northwest airline inbound from Pittsburgh to DC that is unaccounted for. John: We'll track it down." The Secret Service had 93 confused with a Northwest airline flight, initially. If you follow the transcript all the way through to the end, you will see that they only mention one aircraft, United 93. This is the aircraft they are referring to as "coming up the river." Quote: Sorry if this looks like hair-splitting. But we're talking about very sensible informations of historical relevance, and I can't allow you to obliterate details. The same goes for the crash northeast/northwest of Camp David. I only know northeast, and I am looking forward for your "northwest" source. I spent several hours looking for the recording yesterday with no luck. I'm sure I will run across it again and when I do I'll post a link.
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Zaphod 36	May 22 2009, 03:44 AM Post #32
Posts: 49 Group: Members Member #210 Joined: 01/25/08	Does anybody know where I can find the original (official) transcript of "ntmo-e" and "doug"?
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Boonedoggled	May 22 2009, 07:57 AM Post #33
Posts: 228 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: 01/15/08	Zaphod 36 May 22 2009, 03:44 AM Does anybody know where I can find the original (official) transcript of "ntmo-e" and "doug"? http://www.scribd.com/doc/14141827/NYC-B1-NTMO-East-Position-3-Fdr-Transcript
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Zaphod 36	May 22 2009, 04:38 PM Post #34
Posts: 49 Group: Members Member #210 Joined: 01/25/08	Boonedoggled May 22 2009, 07:57 AM Zaphod 36 May 22 2009, 03:44 AM Does anybody know where I can find the original (official) transcript of "ntmo-e" and "doug"? http://www.scribd.com/doc/14141827/NYC-B1-NTMO-East-Position-3-Fdr-Transcript Thank you, Boonedoggled, but this is no official site. I thought about a ".gov"-site or a "Commission Report"-site.
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Woody Box	May 24 2009, 03:34 PM Post #35
Posts: 118 Group: Members Member #109 Joined: 01/17/08	Boonedoggled May 20 2009, 04:19 PM Do they have to say toward DC? If the F-16 departing out of Andrews radios DCA TRACON and says that he is there to check out the aircraft coming up the river, wouldn't you assume that the aircraft is doing just that, coming up the river toward DC? No, I wouldn't assume that automatically, because my understanding of an aircraft "coming up the river" is that it flies upstream. If it "comes down the river", it flies downstream. Because the Potomac runs from the Appalache mountains down toward DC, the aircraft seems to head away from DC. Additionally, the time (10:34) suggests that this blip was not the same one that was heading to Washington at 10:15 - you know, PEOC, Mineta, Cheney, the young man, and the shootdown order. Quote: According to the transcript: "1404:02: to John: Secret Service is saying there is a Northwest airline inbound from Pittsburgh to DC that is unaccounted for. John: We'll track it down." The Secret Service had 93 confused with a Northwest airline flight, initially. If you follow the transcript all the way through to the end, you will see that they only mention one aircraft, United 93. This is the aircraft they are referring to as "coming up the river." There are two fundamental problems with this Northwest flight: 1) National ground stop was active since 9:26. How managed the Northwest flight to take off from PIT? 2) The BTS database shows that - on 9/11 and generally - there is no Northwest flight going from PIT to DCA. So it looks like this Northwest flight was either pure disinformation, or it was in fact identical to UA 93. The Secret Service was responsible for this mess. Why did he do that?
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Boonedoggled	May 24 2009, 06:37 PM Post #36
Posts: 228 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: 01/15/08	Woody Box No, I wouldn't assume that automatically, because my understanding of an aircraft "coming up the river" is that it flies upstream. If it "comes down the river", it flies downstream. Because the Potomac runs from the Appalache mountains down toward DC, the aircraft seems to head away from DC. Additionally, the time (10:34) suggests that this blip was not the same one that was heading to Washington at 10:15 - you know, PEOC, Mineta, Cheney, the young man, and the shootdown order. I know, that's why I told Dom that I don't put too much stock in anything that came from the Secret Service. I know that you have spent a lot of time reading through transcripts and other various documents. If you pay attention, you'll start noticing that the Secret Service was the source of a lot of bad information. Quote: 1) National ground stop was active since 9:26. How managed the Northwest flight to take off from PIT? [2) The BTS database shows that - on 9/11 and generally - there is no Northwest flight going from PIT to DCA. So it looks like this Northwest flight was either pure disinformation, or it was in fact identical to UA 93. The Secret Service was responsible for this mess. Why did he do that? Actually, the ground stop issued by the Command Center occurred at 9:29 AM, but that's not the point. The point is the Secret Service was passing along erroneous information and they corrected some of it. The employees at the Command Center caught on to this fairly quickly: “1444:48: to John: So Secret Service is more screwed up than we are? You there? 1445:15: to John: Secret Service now is reversing their call they think the United did go in south of Johnstown and not at Gamp David. John: We can't reverse our calls on these things. So they are worse than we are.“ Edited by Boonedoggled, May 24 2009, 06:43 PM.
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Woody Box	May 29 2009, 03:09 PM Post #37
Posts: 118 Group: Members Member #109 Joined: 01/17/08	The link is down. http://aal77.com/faa/herndon/mp3/5%20DCC%201905%20Ops%20phone%205107%20Position%207%201315-1415%20UTC.mp3 What's up with your buddy John Farmer, Boonedoggled? Has someone downloaded these FOIA files, accidentally? Edited by Woody Box, May 29 2009, 03:10 PM.
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JFK	May 29 2009, 03:13 PM Post #38
Posts: 4,110 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	Woody Box May 29 2009, 03:09 PM The link is down. http://aal77.com/faa/herndon/mp3/5%20DCC%201905%20Ops%20phone%205107%20Position%207%201315-1415%20UTC.mp3 What's up with your buddy John Farmer, Boonedoggled? Has someone downloaded these FOIA files, accidentally? http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=142746 AAL77.com has gone out of business. A paranoid nimrod and e^n will be hosting those files soon. I will do an announcement when e^n's site is online.
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Woody Box	May 29 2009, 03:29 PM Post #39
Posts: 118 Group: Members Member #109 Joined: 01/17/08	JFK May 29 2009, 03:13 PM Woody Box May 29 2009, 03:09 PM The link is down. http://aal77.com/faa/herndon/mp3/5%20DCC%201905%20Ops%20phone%205107%20Position%207%201315-1415%20UTC.mp3 What's up with your buddy John Farmer, Boonedoggled? Has someone downloaded these FOIA files, accidentally? http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=142746 AAL77.com has gone out of business. A paranoid nimrod and e^n will be hosting those files soon. I will do an announcement when e^n's site is online. That's great, thank you.
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JFK	May 29 2009, 03:35 PM Post #40
Posts: 4,110 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	You are welcome.
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Boonedoggled	May 29 2009, 03:58 PM Post #41
Posts: 228 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: 01/15/08	Woody Box May 29 2009, 03:09 PM The link is down. http://aal77.com/faa/herndon/mp3/5%20DCC%201905%20Ops%20phone%205107%20Position%207%201315-1415%20UTC.mp3 What's up with your buddy John Farmer, Boonedoggled? Has someone downloaded these FOIA files, accidentally? I have everything from his site saved on my hard drive. I'd be happy to upload any of the PDFs to my Scribd account if that's what you need.
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JFK	May 30 2009, 08:35 AM Post #42
Posts: 4,110 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	The MP3 file you are looking for appears to be available HERE Interestingly the 1215-1315 link is pointing to the same file. < shrugs >
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Woody Box	May 31 2009, 02:27 PM Post #43
Posts: 118 Group: Members Member #109 Joined: 01/17/08	Boonedoggled May 29 2009, 03:58 PM Woody Box May 29 2009, 03:09 PM The link is down. http://aal77.com/faa/herndon/mp3/5%20DCC%201905%20Ops%20phone%205107%20Position%207%201315-1415%20UTC.mp3 What's up with your buddy John Farmer, Boonedoggled? Has someone downloaded these FOIA files, accidentally? I have everything from his site saved on my hard drive. I'd be happy to upload any of the PDFs to my Scribd account if that's what you need. Thanks for the offer. Actually, there is a file where they tracked Delta 1989 between Cleveland and Toledo (9:40-10:00). I wanted to look for this file (didn't recall the position number), but then I got only 404's. For start, maybe you can upload Mark Williams' summary on the Command Center files? This was very helpful.
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Boonedoggled	May 31 2009, 04:59 PM Post #44
Posts: 228 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: 01/15/08	Woody Box May 31 2009, 02:27 PM Boonedoggled May 29 2009, 03:58 PM Woody Box May 29 2009, 03:09 PM The link is down. http://aal77.com/faa/herndon/mp3/5%20DCC%201905%20Ops%20phone%205107%20Position%207%201315-1415%20UTC.mp3 What's up with your buddy John Farmer, Boonedoggled? Has someone downloaded these FOIA files, accidentally? I have everything from his site saved on my hard drive. I'd be happy to upload any of the PDFs to my Scribd account if that's what you need. Thanks for the offer. Actually, there is a file where they tracked Delta 1989 between Cleveland and Toledo (9:40-10:00). I wanted to look for this file (didn't recall the position number), but then I got only 404's. For start, maybe you can upload Mark Williams' summary on the Command Center files? This was very helpful. Everything I have from Herndon is up and I will look for that Delta 1989 recording. Edited by Boonedoggled, May 31 2009, 05:02 PM.
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