Purpose of Promoted Shoot Down Disinfo

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Purpose of Promoted Shoot Down Disinfo
Topic Started: Apr 13 2009, 12:24 AM (783 Views)
Domenick DiMaggio	Apr 13 2009, 12:24 AM Post #1
Posts: 1,939 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	was the plane headed towards shanksville shot down or not? thats the question, isn' it? no. the question is did it end up in that field or not? the answer is no. evidence for the shoot down is circumstantial at best. it consists of the following : 911 westmoreland county glenn cramers statements to the press on the day of the attack of being on the phone with passenger ed felt who was locked in the bathroom and described hearing an explosion and seeing white smoke on the plane. the evidence that 'duhbunks' this is cramers own words heavily recited by the enemies of truth a year afterwards where he says he did not hear the call and was reading a transcript. the evidence that cramer is lying about this? his own statements to the fbi that day where he told them he picked up a "spy phone" at the center as soon as he heard operator john shaw say the word 'hijacked'. he then told the fbi everything he told the press that day. so it is most likely that westmoreland county 911 received a call and that was the actual conversation. this statement was recently made available by the 911 commission. i don't have the link off the top of my head though...... other evidence : pittsburgh tribune review reported jim stop was fishing in indian lake when the plane flew over losing debris and that indian lake residents called 911 and reported a low flying plane breaking apart over their homes. the plane did fly over indian lake that day after it passed the field in shanksville but none of the witnesses who confirmed the plane flying over ( john fleegle, barry lichty, carol delasko, jim brandt, chris smith) report any debris falling to the ground when they went outside immediately after hearing it fly over. linda shepley, laura temyer, lisa merringer, & michael merringer all reported hearing explosion(s) while the plane was still airborne but none made any statement of any visual proof of a shoot down beit other planes in the sky or the plane smoking or losing debris. initial reports of the cvr state that it recorded the sound of rushing wind. those have changed to a scripted storyline which no audio is available only a fake transcript which supports the official story. the reason i believe gatekeeping sources are running this shootdown while continuing to neglect other explosive evidence uncovered over the last couple of years of hands on investigation is they want to reassure everyone that the plane crashed in the field in shanksville. this way they can cling to every single other aspect of the fairy tale such as 90%+ of the plane being retreived out of a hole 10 feet in the ground. perhaps conceding that this plane was shot down but everything else is still as they said can prevent any new investigation which is their goal above all goals. even enemies of the truth have been declaring that a shoot down clears the administration of inside job charges and proves that the official story is true. the truth of that though is even if that were true, that the plane was shot down and did impact the ground where they said and they recovered everything they claimed they did, it still proves the official story is a lie and that the american people still deserve a new, transparent, and completely open investigation. a lie is a lie. sorry duhbunkers and neonazicons, but it is what it is. and the official story of what happened in shanksville has been proven to be false. again and again and again. even if you embrace a "conspiracy theory" now and try to spin it into oblivion it still will only prove the official story of the event is total garbage and a new, transparent, and completely open investigation is warranted. Edited by Domenick DiMaggio, Apr 13 2009, 12:27 AM.
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Woody Box	Apr 14 2009, 02:21 PM Post #2
Posts: 118 Group: Members Member #109 Joined: 01/17/08	Here's my take on the shootdown; it's basically the same direction what Domenick says. The shootdown myth was born already on 9/11, and it is linked to the mysterious Camp David crash that was reported in the morning. Many officials (Mineta, Fleischer, Powell) believed that UA93 was "down" at Camp David, and they probably thought this had been the result of a military action as a consequence of Cheney's "shootdown" order. Creating the "little mystery" (shootdown) allowed Cheney&co to withhold papers, obstruct investigations, etc. with the acceptance of Powell and other non-involved officials - because revealing the little mystery would be "embarassing" for the government. So the shootdown myth helped suppress evidence for the "big mystery": MIHOP/Operation Northwoods, which would never had been accepted by Powell and non-involved officials.
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bretwalda	Apr 21 2009, 11:40 PM Post #3
Posts: 203 Group: Members Member #173 Joined: 01/21/08	Careful how you are coming to your conclusions. 93 was shot down (not over shanksville). FOIA 56796 is entirely legit. I don't want to say anything more than what I've already said about it - but be assured the CRITIC as of Feb 2006 had not been scrubbed from DOD intranet databases. My source is extremely reluctant to get into it - but there are other witnesses as well - I'm working on getting those - and getting at least one of them spill the beans. Edited by bretwalda, Apr 21 2009, 11:41 PM.
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bretwalda	Apr 22 2009, 12:07 AM Post #4
Posts: 203 Group: Members Member #173 Joined: 01/21/08	...and by 'be careful' I mean you're assuming only one outcome to a disclosure scenario that no one in officialdom has even come close to acknowledging. The more reasonable scenario would be - If they lied about how it came down, is anyone gonna buy where it came down (if the lie regarding the impact scene is maintained). It opens up a whole new level of skepticism from the half-interested masses regarding the whole story. If it comes out it would be devastating to the ENTIRE official story...IMO
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Domenick DiMaggio	Apr 22 2009, 05:04 AM Post #5
Posts: 1,939 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	is roger misner jr. your source?
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bretwalda	Apr 22 2009, 10:38 AM Post #6
Posts: 203 Group: Members Member #173 Joined: 01/21/08	no he is not. Edited by bretwalda, Apr 22 2009, 10:39 AM.
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Domenick DiMaggio	Apr 22 2009, 07:25 PM Post #7
Posts: 1,939 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	good. hear me now and believe me later there's something real fishy about that cat. if such documents exist do you really think the powers to be would turn them over? its like thinking all you have to do is file an foia on the israeli's arrested on 9/11 and you hit the jackpot. they're not going to hand over any document in any form to would damage the credibility of the official fable. the jref are going to have a field trip with this guy. thats my personal beliefs on that.......
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bretwalda	Apr 22 2009, 10:53 PM Post #8
Posts: 203 Group: Members Member #173 Joined: 01/21/08	Well here's how it went down with my source. 9-11 came up casually as a rabbit trail from some other rant about the feds. I started going off on facts that don't work out in reality. And he just chime's in 'yeah I don't know but I know 93 wasn't brought down by passengers on that plane.' So I asked him why and he said 'I've seen stuff', can't talk about it'. I don't want to divulge his line of work he had just been discharged from (in late 07) the armed forces. Following my examination of misner's claims I plainly asked him one day out of the blue if he had seen the NSA CRITIC from 9-11 regarding 93. He was caught off guard and went a little buggy on me, 'How did you know about that.' I said there's an FOIA by a guy that claims to have seen it to which he replied that they'd never release it. He went on to explain, before abruptly saying he didn't want to discuss it anymore, that it had been passed around his group when the movie FL 93 was released. I assume it was a link to the source - for which he would have had clearance to access given his duties. ...no, if concealment carries on as it has I don't think it will be turned over. But there is the usual backstabbing and powerplays and usurpers within these inner workings, and from what I've read there is a contingent in the NSA that has a big problem with how it has been used and abused. I would proceed on the assumption that it is real and see how it plays out - however long that may take. Re: JREF - my feeling has always been 'so what.' If a bunch of lifers that couldn't pass a 3rd grade reasoning skills test want to make themselves feel better after masturbation sessions on the internet - let em. They aren't relevant out in the real world. For every thousand posts they make to the acclaim of their fellow toadies I've woken up a couple more dozen on the street. I know you're more heavily vested in the research but don't forget they're just an energy sucking vortex of distraction. And the current state of national and international affairs gives them zero credibility. Not to mention every new development regarding 9-11. I just wouldn't throw out the possibility. In your shoes that would open my research up to whole new lines of questions, places to go, people to see. Maybe the blatant bomb hole and the surrounding area and stories is the distraction. Maybe the real answers are somewhere between indian lake and camp david...my two cents.
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Domenick DiMaggio	Apr 23 2009, 04:29 AM Post #9
Posts: 1,939 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	as i stated there is some evidence to support a shoot down claim albeit circumstantial. and i admit i do not know what happened to the plane once is passed indian lake. but the evidence conclusively points to it at least making it that far. i think the most powerful item though is cramer's fbi statement as released by the 911 commission. but there is already spin in place that a shoot down proves 9/11 wasn't an inside job. that it justifies the bush administration and actually clears them of such charges and then the spinsters could use this to explain the lack of debris in shanksville and everyone walks away going ok that makes sense. if this document is legitimate as you believe then i don't expect to see it released ever. much like the videos of the murrah building and the pentagon this too is something else the american public would never be allowed to view.....
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bretwalda	May 17 2009, 12:08 AM Post #10
Posts: 203 Group: Members Member #173 Joined: 01/21/08	From a comment on this GW blog post: [Link Quote: I believe this Airman is telling the exact truth. That morning my wife and I were watching a TV broadcast that was 'live' with an emergency operator talking with someone on flight 93. The person onboard said something like "They're shooting at us; they've hit the wing", and the connection ended. To my knowledge, that was never rebroadcast. We've never heard anything about that conversation since, or talked to anyone who saw the broadcast. A few days later, my brother-in-law, an air-traffic controller, told us the USAF shot 93 down for certain. Many ATC's were monitoring USAF radio traffic. The official story is diversion and feel-good. To me, none of this diminishes the final moments of those loved ones lost on that black morning. We will best honor these fallen comrades by pressing for ALL the truth of September 11,2001. I think it's quite likely the pilots were not attacked by anyone, but had lost control of their aircraft to an overriding signal to their transponder. Anyone have any other anecdotal reference to this broadcast out there?
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Domenick DiMaggio	May 18 2009, 12:01 AM Post #11
Posts: 1,939 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	bretwalda May 17 2009, 12:08 AM From a comment on this GW blog post: [Link Quote: I believe this Airman is telling the exact truth. That morning my wife and I were watching a TV broadcast that was 'live' with an emergency operator talking with someone on flight 93. The person onboard said something like "They're shooting at us; they've hit the wing", and the connection ended. To my knowledge, that was never rebroadcast. We've never heard anything about that conversation since, or talked to anyone who saw the broadcast. A few days later, my brother-in-law, an air-traffic controller, told us the USAF shot 93 down for certain. Many ATC's were monitoring USAF radio traffic. The official story is diversion and feel-good. To me, none of this diminishes the final moments of those loved ones lost on that black morning. We will best honor these fallen comrades by pressing for ALL the truth of September 11,2001. I think it's quite likely the pilots were not attacked by anyone, but had lost control of their aircraft to an overriding signal to their transponder. Anyone have any other anecdotal reference to this broadcast out there? i smell bullshit.
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ULTIMA1	Oct 3 2009, 10:00 AM Post #12
Posts: 183 Group: Members Member #1,188 Joined: 05/26/09	Domenick DiMaggio Apr 22 2009, 05:04 AM is roger misner jr. your source? I am here and waiting on the declassified document from NSA that at least 1 of the planes on 9/11 was intercepted. (Which conflictsd with the official story that no planes were intercepted.) The document that was i was notified exists in letter from NSA, and the document i have read. Edited by ULTIMA1, Oct 3 2009, 10:01 AM.
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Domenick DiMaggio	Oct 3 2009, 08:38 PM Post #13
Posts: 1,939 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	ULTIMA1 Oct 3 2009, 10:00 AM Domenick DiMaggio Apr 22 2009, 05:04 AM is roger misner jr. your source? I am here and waiting on the declassified document from NSA that at least 1 of the planes on 9/11 was intercepted. (Which conflictsd with the official story that no planes were intercepted.) The document that was i was notified exists in letter from NSA, and the document i have read. lets say you are who you say you are and you do what you say you do and you seen what you said you seen...... you really think the government is going to give you a document that proves they're lying about flight 93 because you requested it? you know people asked for the pentagon videos too, right? you know they lie and claim the majority of those videos were in regards to the wtc, right? you know they just released the okc video footage after 14 years finally and it like the pentagon videos was manipulated, right? and you really think they're going to give this to you? Edited by Domenick DiMaggio, Oct 3 2009, 08:38 PM.
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ULTIMA1	Oct 3 2009, 11:17 PM Post #14
Posts: 183 Group: Members Member #1,188 Joined: 05/26/09	Domenick DiMaggio Oct 3 2009, 08:38 PM lets say you are who you say you are and you do what you say you do and you seen what you said you seen...... you really think the government is going to give you a document that proves they're lying about flight 93 because you requested it? you know people asked for the pentagon videos too, right? you know they lie and claim the majority of those videos were in regards to the wtc, right? you know they just released the okc video footage after 14 years finally and it like the pentagon videos was manipulated, right? and you really think they're going to give this to you? Well i have the letter in response to my FOIA stating they have the document and are sending it to me when its declassified. (I have also read the document online along with others who have the permissions) Also others on other sites have been able to figure out who i am and who i work for, funny how most of the people on JERF could not, kind if proved my point about the people that still believe the official story. Edited by ULTIMA1, Oct 3 2009, 11:19 PM.
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Domenick DiMaggio	Oct 4 2009, 08:08 AM Post #15
Posts: 1,939 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	ULTIMA1 Oct 3 2009, 11:17 PM Domenick DiMaggio Oct 3 2009, 08:38 PM lets say you are who you say you are and you do what you say you do and you seen what you said you seen...... you really think the government is going to give you a document that proves they're lying about flight 93 because you requested it? you know people asked for the pentagon videos too, right? you know they lie and claim the majority of those videos were in regards to the wtc, right? you know they just released the okc video footage after 14 years finally and it like the pentagon videos was manipulated, right? and you really think they're going to give this to you? Well i have the letter in response to my FOIA stating they have the document and are sending it to me when its declassified. (I have also read the document online along with others who have the permissions) do you really expect them to declassify a document proving they lied about 9/11? Quote: Also others on other sites have been able to figure out who i am and who i work for, funny how most of the people on JERF could not, kind if proved my point about the people that still believe the official story. yes, i am aware of who you are and what you do which is why i opened my reply to you the way i did. i'm definitely no jrefer.....lol
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ULTIMA1	Oct 4 2009, 08:52 AM Post #16
Posts: 183 Group: Members Member #1,188 Joined: 05/26/09	Domenick DiMaggio Oct 4 2009, 08:08 AM do you really expect them to declassify a document proving they lied about 9/11? Yes i do expect them to declassify a document that i requested through FOIA as they have stated in the responese to my request. [/quote] Edited by ULTIMA1, Oct 4 2009, 08:53 AM.
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Domenick DiMaggio	Oct 4 2009, 09:39 AM Post #17
Posts: 1,939 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	ULTIMA1 Oct 4 2009, 08:52 AM Domenick DiMaggio Oct 4 2009, 08:08 AM do you really expect them to declassify a document proving they lied about 9/11? Yes i do expect them to declassify a document that i requested through FOIA as they have stated in the responese to my request. [/quote]whats the first 2 words of who you work for? thats their excuse. file an foia for all 911 calls in westmoreland county on 911 between 9:30 & 11:30 am. try that one out sometime. maybe you'll have way more luck than i did. but i doubt it because i know about all the residents in indian lake who called 911 because "flight 93" flew over their homes. see if they shot down [and for the record i don't believe for a second that they did] and then they admitted it to you they would have to then admit it crashed somewhere else. no one prior to the crash site reported anything consistent with a shoot down and if they did afterwards then no one has any of their names to corroborate the claims. the tribune review said jim stop reported debris falling from it as it flew over while he was in a boat in the lake and there's no doubt that theres debris there and thats completely inconsistent with the blast trajectory. i dont believe you can shoot off an engine and get it to land perfectly in the drainage ditch. i believe every aspect of "flight 93" was planned in advance just like every aspect of the wtc and pentagon were. a shoot down is uncontrollable. unpredictable. unnecessary too when you're controlling the operation. and just so you know a little about me i made my first trip down the turnpike about 3 years ago and there was no doubt in my mind that flight 93 had been shot down. once i met enough people and talked to enough and learned about it i discovered that the rabbit hole was much deeper than i ever suspected.
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ULTIMA1	Oct 5 2009, 02:51 AM Post #18
Posts: 183 Group: Members Member #1,188 Joined: 05/26/09	Domenick DiMaggio Oct 4 2009, 09:39 AM whats the first 2 words of who you work for? thats their excuse. file an foia for all 911 calls in westmoreland county on 911 between 9:30 & 11:30 am. try that one out sometime. maybe you'll have way more luck than i did. . As stated before i have seen and read the document that states at least 1 of the planes on 9/11 was intercepted. Which debates the 9/11 commission statement that no planes were near any of the 9/11 airliners. As for FOIAs i have had good responeses to almost all i have requested. Edited by ULTIMA1, Oct 5 2009, 02:52 AM.
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Domenick DiMaggio	Oct 5 2009, 04:40 AM Post #19
Posts: 1,939 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	well i know you've been talking about this for a long time. personally i'm not holding my breath. but i hope that you do get them. i just dont believe you ever will.
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ULTIMA1	Oct 5 2009, 12:21 PM Post #20
Posts: 183 Group: Members Member #1,188 Joined: 05/26/09	Domenick DiMaggio Oct 5 2009, 04:40 AM well i know you've been talking about this for a long time. personally i'm not holding my breath. but i hope that you do get them. i just dont believe you ever will. Well as stated i have seen and read the main document.
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Domenick DiMaggio	Oct 5 2009, 07:56 PM Post #21
Posts: 1,939 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	here's my problem..... after 3 years and nearly 2 dozen witnesses i never found one person who saw the plane losing debris or smoking or showing any sign of being engaged. no one has ever identified or reported seeing anything one would describe as a fighter jet and despite that i have spoken with multiple eyewitnesses to the small white plane who have confirmed again and again that it wasn't any type of civilian aircraft or corporate jet. but even they didn't make any mention of visible missiles or guns. i don't believe the shoot down. i believe the stage was set in shanksville just like the wtc and pentagon. every intimate aspect of the attack was planned and prepared in advance. and the united states government is never going to give you any documentation that would prove they were lying about any aspect of 9/11. they'll "accident" you before they give you that.
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ULTIMA1	Oct 6 2009, 03:13 AM Post #22
Posts: 183 Group: Members Member #1,188 Joined: 05/26/09	Domenick DiMaggio Oct 5 2009, 07:56 PM here's my problem..... after 3 years and nearly 2 dozen witnesses i never found one person who saw the plane losing debris or smoking or showing any sign of being engaged. no one has ever identified or reported seeing anything one would describe as a fighter jet and despite that i have spoken with multiple eyewitnesses to the small white plane who have confirmed again and again that it wasn't any type of civilian aircraft or corporate jet. but even they didn't make any mention of visible missiles or guns. i don't believe the shoot down. i believe the stage was set in shanksville just like the wtc and pentagon. every intimate aspect of the attack was planned and prepared in advance. and the united states government is never going to give you any documentation that would prove they were lying about any aspect of 9/11. they'll "accident" you before they give you that. Well the document states that a plane was intercepted. If it was Flight 93 or Flight 1989 that was confused for Flight 93 and if it was fired upon are the main questions to be answered. Edited by ULTIMA1, Oct 6 2009, 03:14 AM.
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