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| Topic Started: Mar 27 2009, 07:48 PM (1,571 Views) | |
| Domenick DiMaggio | May 13 2009, 05:08 PM Post #51 |
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really? so your zionist theory is that even without 9/11 america would have all yelled "lets roll" into iraq to disarm him of his imaginary wmd's that were a threat to israel's existence? |
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| Miragememories | May 13 2009, 05:21 PM Post #52 |
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Iraq never suffered a full invasion in the Gulf War.
As a valuable asset, Iraq was always the target. The problem was how to get Congressional support. The only solution was clear, create a National Emergency. The plan, a cooperative venture between the security forces of the U.S. and Israel. Organizations with access to virtually anything they wanted.
Not everyone sees the alleged 9/11 suicide attackers, as Saudi and Afghan terrorists. The Bush gov't and the cooperative MEDIA chose to ignore nationality in favor of the more ominous sounding "Al Qaeda". And in typical fashion, the Bush Regime and the MEDIA portrayed Al Qaeda as a James Bond-like evil terrorist organization.
You are missing the point about preparing the Public. The public were ripe for a "shock 'n awe" terrorist event, and thanks to the MEDIA, Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden were on everyone's lips. The public would only support a total War on Terror against them. Again, thanks to the MEDIA, the public knew that Al Qaeda and it's leader were in Afghanistan.
Al Qaeda was blamed. The MEDIA never showed great concern about the nationality of the terrorists. The stage was set to give George Bush extraordinary power and an authority that was unpatriotic to question. At that point, he only had to manufacture a belief in his evidence, which he then used to persuade Congress to support the invasion of Iraq. When Bush originally went to Congress, they thought the idea would be to focus on where Al Qaeda was known to be. Thanks to 9/11 "shock 'n awe", few in Congress showed concern that they were effectively empowering the President to choose his enemy and attack. But the President and his cohorts certainly realized. MM Edited by Miragememories, May 14 2009, 04:28 AM.
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| Randi Hunter | May 14 2009, 12:48 AM Post #53 |
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Hm, this was interesting. http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1056648.html "Last update - 07:14 19/01/2009 Israel recruits 'army of bloggers' to combat anti-Zionist Web sites By Cnaan Liphshiz The Immigrant Absorption Ministry announced on Sunday it was setting up an "army of bloggers," to be made up of Israelis who speak a second language, to represent Israel in "anti-Zionist blogs" in English, French, Spanish and German. The program's first volunteer was Sandrine Pitousi, 31, from Kfar Maimon, situated five kilometers from Gaza. "I heard about the project over the radio and decided to join because I'm living in the middle of the conflict," she said. Before hanging up the phone prematurely following a Color Red rocket alert, Pitousi, who immigrated to Israel from France in 1993, said she had some experience with public relations from managing a production company. ..." |
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| asaf-a | May 14 2009, 07:55 AM Post #54 |
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So many straw man claims at once...
I have already talked about Iraq.
First of all, the word Zionist is unnecessary. I don't tell you that you have a Capitalist theory over 9/11 or a Liberal theory or a Feminist theory, because the ideaology i belive in has nothing to do with what i said. Second, i didn't say 9/11 didn't help, i said 9/11 led to an Afghani invasion, and that if Israel was in control over who is to blame, it would have been put on IRAQ, not Afghanistan. Retroactivly, 9/11 is on a chain of event which ended with Iraq, but to see in August 2001 that a terror attack by Afghanis, saudis, Lebaneese and Egyptians would lead to an invasion to Iraq, would be impossible. just blame it on Iraq. These comments are also straw man because it just disregards many things i said that are redicolus in the theory that Israel had involvment on 9/11 and relate only to the weakest point i made.
Did i say it did? I said it was attacked prior to 9/11.
The best idea to make People from country X to get mad on country Y is to fake a terror attack from people from countries A B C D? Just blame it on Iraq, you get a national emergency and you have the initial excuse to do what you want.
Al Qaeda was a joke in Iraq, the Baa'th regime in the head of Hussein is what ruled Iraq.
So why not kill two birds with one stone and make this shocking terror attack but blame it on Iraq? And even if you can't blame Iraq and you have to blame somebody else, and we assume that 9/11 works completly towards Israel intrest, then why blame Al-Qaeda instead of groups that are actully bothering Israel like Hamas/Hezbollah/Islamic Jihad?
No, it really isn't. Even though i was in the rocket range in the second Lebanon war, i am not recruited by anyone, and show here my own views. I didn't talk about Israel when i opened this thread, i asked for something completly different. |
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| Miragememories | May 14 2009, 10:27 AM Post #55 |
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I never said you did! My point is that there's a big difference between a limited attack and a full invasion.
The best idea, was to create a "shock 'n awe" National Emergency. Israel can easily set their military sights on any hostile neighboring country that lobs a missile their way because the history of conflict there has been well established and in the absence of a peace agreement, the threat remains constant. Not so in the United States which hadn't been attacked since WWII. The 9/11 scenario was based on terrorist suicide attacks which the public, as expected, thanks to the MEDIA, quickly associated with Al-Qaeda. The public had no expectation or reason to readily believe that Iraq would ever mount a major suicide attack on the U.S. I recall absolutely no MEDIA consideration of Iraq on 9/11, or the days immediately following, that would suggest that Iraq might have played any part in the 9/11 attacks.
All the more reason the U.S. could not 'immediately' target Iraq. But, Al-Qaeda, an organization, and not Iraq, a country, was the declared enemy behind 9/11.
I explained that.
Because to the American Public, Hamas, Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad were Israel's enemy. Only Al-Qaeda had been MEDIA-promoted as a serious threat to the U.S. A military confrontation with those organizations would directly embroil the U.S. in the Palestinian problem and seriously risk disrupting critically important relations with other arab countries like Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Take a look at the Vietnam war. The U.S. never invaded North Vietnam because of their fear that it would escalate into a confrontation with China and the USSR. Afghanistan and Iraq were home to unpopular regimes, considered to be low risk adversaries, and having neighbors unlikely to provide military assistance. MM Edited by Miragememories, May 14 2009, 10:29 AM.
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| T3QuillAMocKINGbird | May 14 2009, 11:35 AM Post #56 |
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Hey lets not talk of Killing Birds now they had nothing to do with 911... Unless you are going to make point that Airplanes flew into the buildings and birds are responsible for man imagining flight.
Why do you need this? What are you trying to prove or disprove? If you doubt the official story is true then you have enough from Loose Change to validate the doubts you could possibly have. Sounds to me that you just want to know how it was pulled off and who truly is responsible and that is understandable. It makes for great reading and there are plenty of scenarios for you to disagree with. I was told once that "oooh it would take too much involvement and too much time to rig the buildings" and "you would have to completely rig the whole building". Yet a Plane and Jet Fuel do the trick? The absurdity stares us directly in the face. Consider your dismay as if it were an Orwellian proverb emoted from simplicity as to Imply with an S (strike that to make a better S being "$" as a motive), forming SIMPLY, still tounge tied from pronouncing your pronoun of proof, left only to utter "Oh Well Again", as the proverbial "Orwellian" is not pro verb. As if the perpeTRAITORS meant to leave you involved in a Clueless Game of CLUE (<-Google it for the clueless about CLUE). They did it, with the WMD's, in that place we went to, for the benefit of someone, but for the liberty and justice for all! Ok one of my interesting scenarios (if you just want my opinion and something I came up with) is the 1993 bombing could have happened as a way to get at the infrastructure and start rigging the place. Now that I think about it there are tons of coincidences and wow I could go on all day long about it but as far as Israel goes everyone has it all backwards and dyslexic. God said the chosen land for paradise "IS REAL" not "ISRAEL". And as for the bloggers being unleashed to blog about Israel, I guess this would mean they entered into a self fulfilling prophecy about the end war...of words that is, called BABBLE-ON! Edited by T3QuillAMocKINGbird, May 14 2009, 11:36 AM.
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| asaf-a | May 14 2009, 03:52 PM Post #57 |
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OK that is reasonable, but the only difference 9/11 made is that America now had excuse to attack AQI in Iraq, not the Iraqi regime because the Iraqi regime had nothing to do with 9/11.
What is the Israeli interest in blaming Al-Qaeda. Al Qaeda isn't even a threat to Israel, you're just mixing shit up.
And that just supports my claim that it is impossible to think before 9/11 that an attack by Afghanis Lebaneese Egyptians and Saudis would make it easier on America to attack Iraq. You have to be a fortune teller for this :\ Wer'e getting into circles, so we might as well stop now.
I just think that doubting the offical story is not enough to immediatly jump to conclusions. I challenge you to use your evidence to reach a chain of event that will have less holes then the official version. Why are you so upset about it? just tell me what happend and that's it. |
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| noeffects | May 14 2009, 10:40 PM Post #58 |
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what are you basing your "official version" on? the 911 No-mmision...?... |
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| T3QuillAMocKINGbird | May 15 2009, 12:30 AM Post #59 |
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Not upset at all here, you may not have understood my Orwellian excerpt... Look at the massive amounts of money blown by an administration that Hacked the Vote 2 times to accomplish its goals and left america in shambles. The Hacking of the Vote is a fact and provides knowledge that something could be amiss in america, no I didn't say miss america. Should we think that the American flag actually stands for freedom we find as it undulates it waves goodbye to freedom as we are truly too late. Foriegn intrests seem more interesting and our economy has been bilked. This is news to those that think of a government for the people by the people and there is ample proof that this gov is not "by" the people and it is obviously not "for" the people. Hacking Democracy, I suggest you look it up and watch that movie too. Good Luck! |
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| asaf-a | May 15 2009, 01:47 AM Post #60 |
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I didn't say i support the offical explnation, i asked you to bring your own explnation, and later i argued that Israel is not behind 9/11. |
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| Miragememories | May 15 2009, 07:12 AM Post #61 |
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You are misunderstanding, again. The Bush administration and the western MEDIA blamed Al-Qaeda for 9/11. Is that crystal clear?? Israel merely cooperated with that assertion and was not the source of that claim. The American public had been 'prepped' to accept Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda as capable and likely candidates for an event such as 9/11. The American public was not expecting one of Israel's many other enemies to act in such a way. Whether Bush and Company liked it or not, they had to play along with the Al-Qaeda belief and direct their initial attention to Al-Qaeda's known operation base, Afghanistan. Once Congress enabled Bush in his "war on terror", he was effectively handed the key to the war chest. Making Iraq the new target, was just a matter of conjuring up evidence showing Iraq was a hotbed of terrorist activity and a National Security threat to the U.S.. What did Israel ultimately gain? The world's only super power invading Iraq and maintaining a major military presence in that country. A country which had previously attacked Israel, and Israel had been powerless to retaliate. Israel gains a measure of retribution, and now have their chief protector, the world's sole superpower, the U.S., in close geographical proximity. And lots of leverage! All for agreeing to do most of the 9/11 dirty work.
It never was about the nationalities of the participants. The U.S. had no desire to destroy their valued relationships with Saudi Arabia or Egypt. Afghanistan and the Taliban were a different matter. The U.S. had to start there because they supported the belief that Al-Qaeda based out of Afghanistan were responsible. The primary initial objective was to obtain the power from Congress to effectively wage war on terror wherever the Bush administration determined the battle needed to be fought. MM |
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| Miragememories | May 15 2009, 08:38 AM Post #62 |
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BOLDING is mine For us it's all about a sincere investigation. We aren't a court and we know that our so-called conclusions are no more than logical conjecture based on the volume of evidence that contradicts the official conjecture. Any evidence that points in a completely different direction than the strongly promoted official direction is cause for great concern, given the seriousness of 9/11. Evidence has been amassed that; -provides strong argument that the WTC Twin Towers were brought down by controlled demolition -WTC7 was a controlled demolition -the Pentagon was not struck my a commercial aircraft flying on the official south of Citgo flightpath The list of contradictory evidence goes on and on. With so much evidence, the fact that the Bush administration had to be coerced into setting up the 9/11 Commission, and then proceeded to severely handicap it, should make any thinking person wonder with a BIG WHY? How is it not reasonable to suspect a major conspiracy has occurred, and not the conspiracy that the Bush administration was giving it's full support to? MM |
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| asaf-a | May 15 2009, 11:57 AM Post #63 |
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You whole first post falls down to a very simple mistake. Israeli enemies did do suicide attacks many many time during the intifadas. Now you say that no one expected Israel's enemies to attack like 9/11, but it wasn't expected from Al-Qaeda either. And if it was expected from Al-Qaeda, then what's the point of faking an attack instead of just waiting for a real one? Now i don't see the point in Israeli involvment. It's the US soil, US controlled area. If the US wants to do such a complicated task on it's own soil, why do you need Israel to help you? just do it by yourself. And if you were given the keys to select a group of people to handle a new independent investigation, what would you investigate that would be different from what the 9/11 commision did? And if a new independent free Bush-free investigation would have taken place and came to the conclusion that the twin towers were not controlled demolision, and wtc 7 was brought down because of the damage from the collapsing north tower, and that the pentagon was hit by a plane, would you support these conclusions? |
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| Miragememories | May 15 2009, 01:18 PM Post #64 |
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What mistake?
That is not in dispute.
I never said suicide attacks were exclusive to Al-Qaeda. I said; "The 9/11 scenario was based on terrorist suicide attacks which the public, as expected, thanks to the MEDIA, quickly associated with Al-Qaeda. The public had no expectation or reason to readily believe that Iraq would ever mount a major suicide attack on the U.S."
Now you are running around in circles. 9/11 was never "anticipated" by the public. That would have reduced it's level of shock 'n awe. That is not to say that should a major terrorist event occur on U.S. soil , that Americans were not pre-programmed by the MEDIA as to who they would immediately believe was behind it. Just look at the U.S. news coverage on 9/11 and you'll see how much Al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden were being credited as responsible. You'll see no mention of Israel's "other" enemies as likely candidates.
You might be right. It's possible that it was an all-American operation, but not very likely. The operation required a level of expertise and capability that if performed solely by resident Americans, would have created too great a risk of disclosure. Israel had the ability, the means, and the motive to cooperate in such a venture. You are forgetting about a similar incident that JFK referred to, the USS Liberty. I do suggest you investigate that.
I suggest you re-read my previous reply for starters.
You are creating a "what if" based on a hypothesis that contradicts current evidence. You are also revealing how shallow your research has been into the 9/11 subject. MM Edited by Miragememories, May 15 2009, 02:39 PM.
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| JFK | May 15 2009, 03:08 PM Post #65 |
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Don't forget about the King David hotel bombing either. |
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| asaf-a | May 15 2009, 06:26 PM Post #66 |
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First, i never said i'm a 9/11 expert, i really am not. What skills did Israel hold that the Americans didn't that required them to take part in 9/11? I only heard of one conspiracy theory in Israel, and it's a preety dumb one, but let's not change the subject. And i don't see what King David Hotel has to do with anything. |
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| JFK | May 15 2009, 06:54 PM Post #67 |
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It shows a history of deceit amongst your government. What is your mossad's motto ? |
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| asaf-a | May 16 2009, 05:16 AM Post #68 |
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Among my government? are you kidding? King David was 2 years before Israel was even given independence by a minor group, we didn't have a government. Our current Prime Minister was born after Israel was created in 1948. You judge a whole nation for something that happend 63 years ago by a few people! It's like saying that the Israeli government are a group of rapists because one of our formar president is being charged of rape. And the Mossad motto is "בתחבולות תעשה לך מלחמה" which is hebrew for "For by wise guidance you can wage your war" and it's a quate for the bible, but you and i don't know alot about Mossad except for the fact that they killed some of the guys that orchastrated the attack on the Israeli athlets in the Munich Olympics. |
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| Miragememories | May 16 2009, 06:06 AM Post #69 |
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We don't know a lot about the CIA but I'm sure they have a nice intimate relationship with Mossad. Why the reluctance to look into the story about the USS Liberty? MM Edited by Miragememories, May 16 2009, 08:20 AM.
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| asaf-a | May 16 2009, 10:07 AM Post #70 |
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It dosen't have anything to do with anything. Stop asking me to justify for stuff that happend before i was born, i'm talking about 9/11 and you keep bringing up USS Liberty, stick to the subject- Israel didn't take part in 9/11. |
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| Lin Kuei | May 16 2009, 11:02 AM Post #71 |
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Who knows the full extent of involvement with countries other than the US - such as Israel, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia... Israeli agents by their own admission were there to 'document the attack'... and that's just the tip of the iceberg... In my opinion it is not right to point the finger at whole countries, rather it is a network of rogue yet extremely powerful elements and interests, which do not represent the people and governments of the countries out of which they operate. This thread can go to the skeptic's section. |
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| Miragememories | May 16 2009, 11:33 AM Post #72 |
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I'd just like to say that I have no axe to grind with the nation of Israel and have no objection to their existence. I agree with Lin Kuei that it's not fair to lay the blame on whole countries. It's groups and organizations within certain countries who made 9/11 possible and I'm sorry for making it appear that any Israeli participation was on a national level. MM |
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| noeffects | May 16 2009, 02:28 PM Post #73 |
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yep... globalists...mapmakers...I'm sorry asaf-a ...but you got em too... 
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| Domenick DiMaggio | May 18 2009, 12:04 AM Post #74 |
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not behind, involved. just like the us gov, saudi gov, & pakistani gov...... |
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6:49 PM Nov 23
