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| Topic Started: Mar 27 2009, 07:48 PM (1,574 Views) | |
| asaf-a | Apr 23 2009, 07:25 AM Post #26 |
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I am not a debunker, i'm not asking what is NOT true, i am asking you what by your opinion IS true. If everything you said is true, so the commission report is false, but it dosen't say that the conspiracy is true. |
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| JFK | Apr 23 2009, 11:08 PM Post #27 |
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Isn't it amazing how these "terrorist" had flight training at American military bases ? Isn't it amazing how Charles Burlingame ( the pilot of flight 77 which allegedly impacted the Pentagon ) took part in a mock exercise in the early to mid 1990's involving a crash into the Pentagon, and then in 2001 surrenders his plane ( and passengers ) to "terrorists" armed with boxcutters ? That is but two out of hundreds surrounding the events of 911. Sounds to me like you swallowed the "official story" hook line and sinker... Just like the powers that be want.
No matter what you think it IS a conspiracy, whether our government was involved or Osama Bin Forgettens merry men actually did what they were accused of. |
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| asaf-a | Apr 24 2009, 03:20 AM Post #28 |
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And again, what is not true instead of what you think is true. You know what? you're totally right, the army trained them, let's say it's a fact, then what does it mean? give me a chain of event backed by this evidence, because you obviously have many. Edited by asaf-a, Apr 24 2009, 03:22 AM.
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| JFK | Apr 24 2009, 03:59 AM Post #29 |
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Here is a start... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6456867285177039347 |
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| asaf-a | Apr 24 2009, 06:52 PM Post #30 |
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So what does that mean? it's an evidence, it's not a conclusion. Use evidence if it leads to somewhere, not if it is just weird or opposite of the original story. |
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| asaf-a | May 10 2009, 08:26 AM Post #31 |
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You know, there are two things that pisses me off here. Even though you are banned, i have something to say. 1. You try to teach me about Sayeret Matkal. I know about Sayeret Matkal more then you will ever know. More then what everyone in this forum combines know. Sayeret Matkal is NOT an "anti-hijack aircraft takeover" unit. It is simply an anti terror unit, just like the American Delta Force and the France GIGN. The closest thing it did to an airplane is when there were terrorists in a hostage barricaded situation at Ben Gurion Airport and the Sayeret Matkal soldiers were charging the aircraft after it landed. 2. If there is anyone who can be considered a hero here is Daniel Lewin. If anyone tryed to fight the hijackers and got stabbed it would be him. Now i know some of you think that American 11 didn't crash to the WTC, but that means two things: 1. Either it was hijacked by the hijackers. If it was, the one to oppose it would be Daniel Lewin. 2. It was hijacked by Lewin as part of an Israeli mission to create 9/11 That would mean that every plane involved in 9/11 would have to hold an Israeli passenger who served in Sayeret Matkal. Or: If it did crash the wtc, Daniel would be secretly trained to become a pilot, and would be the first jewish suicide bomber. Now the most importent thing here is the word "served". He served in Sayeret Matkal, until he was 22-24 when he was released from the army. For me, he was a regular passenger, but nice try linking Israel to 9/11 based on the fact that one passenger was Israeli. Now i can only assume the rest of your info,JustADream, is as bad as this claim, so i guess the rest of your claims are false. |
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| Lin Kuei | May 10 2009, 10:36 AM Post #32 |
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...you're kidding aren't you? When evidence presents that is "wierd or opposite of the original story" - it is extremely important as it highlights that what we have been told is NOT true and that a THOROUGH and independent investigation needs to be carried out. No-one claims to know the absolute truth about 9/11 - the very basis of the 9/11 Truth movment is not a pre-supposition of the 'truth', but a pursuit OF the truth in the face of blatant deceit. If thousands of people were murdered in cold blood, only in turn to be used as an excuse to kill millions more around the world and erode the freedoms that are a right to all people... ...and that excuse is based on a story which, is "wierd and opposite of" what the actual evidence signifies... you think that does not "lead somewhere?" It leads us to the need for a real investigation - which the media and establishment puppets will not have anything to do with as it upsets the status quo... get real. |
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| asaf-a | May 10 2009, 02:16 PM Post #33 |
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My English probebly wasn't clear: I asked for a probable chain of even based on your foundings, but instead people kept throwing random facts like fire dosen't melt steel or that the pilots were trained in military bases etc... I only asked for what you assume to have happend based on your evidence, i didn't ask for just the evidence itself. Not i gotta say that many times you are bringing evidence which is true, but dosen't point anywhere. I think the best example is when JustADream brought up the fact that Daniel Lewin was in a secret Israeli army unit. It raises questions, but where does it really point? that the israeli army secretly kept him in service in disguise as an american civilian who ran a company and was trained to be the first Israeli suicide bomber? The point is that if you bring evidence of something that contradicts the offical story- does it automaticly means it is a conspiracy? But i guess i understand your point about a new investigation. Say, does the loose change creators visit this forum? |
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| noeffects | May 10 2009, 07:41 PM Post #34 |
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Oh man... there is more to Isreali involvement on 9/11... I hope you can help explain this event ...  here...YouTube link... Urban Moving Systems... Fabled Enemies has some info you might need to be privy to... 
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| asaf-a | May 11 2009, 01:43 PM Post #35 |
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Does it even makes sense to you? Why would you crash a plane (everyone agrees), rig a building with explosives/thermate/whatever (most of you agree) but then send agents from another country's intelligence organization, to put one truck bomb when there is already a mess near the wtc. I heard a story about some Israelis which were captured and interrogated and stuff and eventually released, but they went on to talk about it on TV in Israel and it wasn't any secret. I saw the interview and they told that America is crazy on security right now and he would not recommend people to go there. My friend's mom was in D.C. on 9/11, and she told him that Americans were scared as shit and they didn't know what to do. They literraly drove tanks down the streets of D.C. I think you will agree with me that 9/11 was used as a pre-text to initiate any order that would increase security, and even on the very same day there was chaos and maybe some people were arrested even if they didn't have anything to do with 9/11. Besides, we have no reason to attack you. Now you can bring out Netanyahu's quate that it would "raise sympathy" towards Israel, but doing all this just to "raise sympathy" is not enough. If Israel would have planned 9/11, they would have blamed it on enemies that are relevent to us- like Hamas or Hezbollah, not on Al-Qaueda that sits in Afghanistan (Not very close to Israel), that just dosen't make any sense at all. Edited by asaf-a, May 11 2009, 01:45 PM.
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| JFK | May 11 2009, 03:18 PM Post #36 |
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The trucks were empty and the bomb dogs went nuts. That tells me that they were leaving after planting the explosives. As to the "why", Why was the USS Liberty attacked and why did then President Johnson call off the support teams headed toward her, after he found out who did the attacks ? |
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| Miragememories | May 11 2009, 04:40 PM Post #37 |
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Excellent points JFK. I look forward to asaf-a's explanations.
But as a declared Zionist, surely you must see that Israel, as part of it's priority on Defense, had every reason to want an increase in the United States entanglement in the Middle East. Israel, as everyone knows, certainly had no reason to attack the U.S. That's not to say that a group of powerful Israelis would be opposed to the benefits gained from a fake arab terrorist attack on a major U.S. city. The idea to be considered, is, that it was primarily a secret Israeli operation, pretending to be a "shock 'n awe" Al Qaeda terrorist attack. The Israeli's had the expertise combined with a national security motive. To proceed, they required the cooperation of a small group of powerful U.S. government, military and corporate people. For the U.S. "insiders", the operation's primary public goal, would be to terrify the public into agreeing to all the government and corporate actions that followed. MM |
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| noeffects | May 11 2009, 06:29 PM Post #38 |
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I have heard a theory that can make sense...
I posted this over a year ago...I'll repost it here... .................................................................................................................................................................................... As the world watched in disbelief and asked the question... ...Mossad operatives were seen dancing with joy. A Mossad surveillance team made quite a public spectacle of themselves on 9-11. The New York Times reported Thursday that a group of five men had set up video cameras aimed at the Twin Towers prior to the attack on Tuesday, and were seen congratulating one another afterwards. (1) Police received several calls from angry New Jersey residents claiming "middle-eastern" men with a white van were videotaping the disaster with shouts of joy and mockery. (2) "They were like happy, you know … They didn't look shocked to me" said a witness. (3) [T]hey were seen by New Jersey residents on Sept. 11 making fun of the World Trade Center ruins and going to extreme lengths to photograph themselves in front of the wreckage. (4) Witnesses saw them jumping for joy in Liberty State Park after the initial impact (5). Later on, other witnesses saw them celebrating on a roof in Weehawken, and still more witnesses later saw them celebrating with high fives in a Jersey City parking lot. (6) "It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park." (7) One anonymous phone call to the authorities actually led them to close down all of New York's bridges and tunnels. The mystery caller told the 9-1-1 dispatcher that a group of Palestinians were mixing a bomb inside of a white van headed for the Holland Tunnel. Here's the transcript from NBC News: Dispatcher: Jersey City police. Caller: Yes, we have a white van, 2 or 3 guys in there, they look like Palestinians and going around a building. Caller: There's a minivan heading toward the Holland tunnel, I see the guy by Newark Airport mixing some junk and he has those sheikh uniform. Dispatcher: He has what? Caller: He's dressed like an Arab. (8) (*Writer's note: Why would this mystery caller specifically say that these "Arabs" were Palestinians? How would he know that? Palestinians usually dress in western style clothes, not "sheikh uniforms") Based on that phone call, police then issued a "Be-on-the-Lookout" alert for a white mini-van heading for the city's bridges and tunnels from New Jersey. White, 2000 Chevrolet van with 'Urban Moving Systems' sign on back seen at Liberty State Park, Jersey City, NJ, at the time of first impact of jetliner into World Trade Center Three individuals with van were seen celebrating after initial impact and subsequent explosion. FBI Newark Field Office requests that, if the van is located, hold for prints and detain individuals. (9) When a van fitting that exact description was stopped just before crossing into New York, the suspicious "middle-easterners" were apprehended. Imagine the surprise of the police officers when these terror suspects turned out to be Israelis! According to ABC’s 20/20, when the van belonging to the cheering Israelis was stopped by the police, the driver of the van, Sivan Kurzberg, told the officers: "We are Israelis. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are your problem." (10) Why did he feel that Palestinians were a problem for the NYPD? The police and FBI field agents became very suspicious when they found maps of the city with certain places highlighted, box cutters (the same items that the hijackers supposedly used), $4700 cash stuffed in a sock, and foreign passports. Police also told the Bergen Record that bomb sniffing dogs were brought to the van and that they reacted as if they had smelled explosives. (11) The FBI seized and developed their photos, one of which shows Sivan Kurzberg flicking a cigarette lighter in front of the smouldering ruins in an apparently celebratory gesture. (12) Click for full size The Jerusalem Post later reported that a white van with a bomb was stopped as it approached the George Washington Bridge, but the ethnicity of the suspects was not revealed. Here's what the Jerusalem Post reported on September 12, 2001: American security services overnight stopped a car bomb on the George Washington Bridge. The van, packed with explosives, was stopped on an approach ramp to the bridge. Authorities suspect the terrorists intended to blow up the main crossing between New Jersey and New York, Army Radio reported. (13) "...two suspects are in FBI custody after a truckload of explosives was discovered around the George Washington Bridge ... The FBI ... says enough explosives were in the truck to do great damage to the George Washington Bridge." WMV video download (545kB) It was reported the van contained tonnes of explosives (14). What's really intriguing is that ABC's 20/20 (15), the New York Post (16), and the New Jersey Bergen Record (17) all clearly and unambiguously reported that a white van with Israelis was intercepted on a ramp near Route 3, which leads directly to the Lincoln Tunnel. But the Jerusalem Post, Israeli National News (Arutz Sheva) (18), and Yediot America, (19) all reported, just as clearly and unambiguously, that a white van with Israelis was stopped on a ramp leading to the George Washington Bridge, which is several miles north of the Lincoln Tunnel. It appears as if there may actually have been two white vans involved, one stopped on each crossing. This would not only explain the conflicting reports as to the actual location of the arrests, but would also explain how so many credible eye-witnesses all saw celebrating "middle-easterners" in a white van in so many different locations. It also explains why the New York Post and Steve Gordon (lawyer for the 5 Israelis) originally described how three Israelis were arrested but later increased the total to five. Perhaps one van was meant to drop off a bomb while the other was meant to pick up the first set of drivers while re-crossing back into New Jersey? If a van was to be used as a parked time-bomb on the GW Bridge, then certainly the drivers would need to have a "get-away van" to pick them up and escape. And notice how the van (or vans) stayed away from the third major crossing -the Holland Tunnel- which was where the police had originally been directed to by that anti-Palestinian 9-1-1 "mystery caller". A classic misdirection play. From there, the story gets becomes even more suspicious. The Israelis worked for a Weehawken moving company known as Urban Moving Systems. An American employee of Urban Moving Systems told the The Record of New Jersey that a majority of his co-workers were Israelis and they were joking about the attacks. The employee, who declined to give his name said: "I was in tears. These guys were joking and that bothered me." These guys were like, "Now America knows what we go through." (20) A few days after the attacks, Urban Moving System's Israeli owner, Dominick Suter, dropped his business and fled the country for Israel. He was in such a hurry to flee America that some of Urban Moving System's customers were left with their furniture stranded in storage facilities (21). Suter's departure was abrupt, leaving behind coffee cups, sandwiches, cell phones and computers strewn on office tables and thousands of dollars of goods in storage. Suter was later placed on the same FBI suspect list as 9/11 lead hijacker Mohammed Atta and other hijackers and suspected al-Qaeda sympathizers, suggesting that U.S. authorities felt Suter may have known something about the attacks. (22) The Jewish weekly The Forward reported that the FBI finally concluded that at least two of the detained Israelis were agents working for the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency, and that Urban Moving Systems, the ostensible employer of the five Israelis, was a front operation. This was confirmed by two former CIA officers, and they noted that movers' vans are a common intelligence cover. (23). The Israelis were held in custody for 71 days before being quietly released. (24) "There was no question but that [the order to close down the investigation] came from the White House. It was immediately assumed at CIA headquarters that this basically was going to be a cover-up so that the Israelis would not be implicated in any way in 9/11." (25) Several of the detainees discussed their experience in America on an Israeli talk show after their return home. Said one of the men, denying that they were laughing or happy on the morning of Sept. 11, "The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event." (26) wmv video download How did they know there would be an event to document on 9/11? It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots of the dancing Israeli Mossad agents - here's the most logical scenario: 1. The Israeli "movers" cheered the 9-11 attacks to celebrate the successful accomplishment of the greatest spy operation ever pulled off in history. 2. One of them, or an accomplice, then calls a 9-1-1 police dispatcher to report Palestinian bomb-makers in a white van headed for the Holland Tunnel. 3. Having thus pre-framed the Palestinians with this phone call, the Israeli bombers then head for the George Washington Bridge instead, where they will drop off their time-bomb van and escape with Urban Moving accomplices. 4. But the police react very wisely and proactively by closing off ALL bridges and tunnels instead of just the Holland Tunnel. This move inadvertently foils the Israelis' misdirection play and leads to their own capture and 40 day torture. 5. To cover up this story, the U.S. Justice Department rounds up over 1000 Arabs for minor immigration violations and places them in New York area jails. The Israelis therefore become less conspicuous as the government and media can now claim that the Israelis were just immigration violators caught in the same dragnet as many other Arabs. 6. After several months, FBI and Justice Department "higher-ups" are able to gradually push aside the local FBI agents and free the Israelis quietly. |
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| asaf-a | May 12 2009, 06:56 AM Post #39 |
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Yeah i heard the story about the dancing Israelis. Don't know much into it, but it dosen't make sense that Mossad agents would dance after their top secret mission is going  I don't know what is USS Liberty or who is president Johnson so i can't reply, sorry. "But as a declared Zionist, surely you must see that Israel, as part of it's priority on Defense, had every reason to want an increase in the United States entanglement in the Middle East." The middle east is a big place. Why would we want Americans to invade Afghanistan if we are fighting terrorists in the Palestinian Authority, terrorists in Lebanon, Hussein's Iraq and Syria. Why blame it on Al-Qaeda which i don't think ever got close to attacking Israel, when we can blame it on Hamas or Hezbollah? If 9/11 would have been an Israeli job it would have been blaimed on Hamas (Palestine) or Hezbollah (Lebanon) and besides, do you really think that Mohammad Atta and Ziad Jarrah were Mossad agents which were also the first jewish/Israeli suicide bomber? Of course not. The operation you suggest that went in 9/11 included many things like thermate, controlled demolision, digging a hole and dumping aircraft remains and sending a cruise missile into the pentagon.How the hell can Mossad do this? if there is more to 9/11 then Al-Qaeda then it's probebly not Mossad. My explanation to the truck bombs is that i don't have an explanation. I don't suggest i know what happend anything anywhere, but i also remind you that truck bombs dosen't make sense. the building collapsed from the top, not from the Garage. |
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| JFK | May 12 2009, 08:08 AM Post #40 |
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As far as the USS Liberty, perhaps you should learn how to use Google.  Or you could begin with this LINK or this LINK for the "official" story, or this LINK to hear the story from survivors. As far as the vans, you do realize that the WTC had cargo elevators which were large enough to to drive a van into do you not ? Or did you think that they hand carried the supplies to the restaurant at the top which served thousands on a daily basis ? asaf-a, I suggest you educate yourself before flippantly dismissing what has changed the entire world forever. |
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| asaf-a | May 12 2009, 11:13 AM Post #41 |
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Where the hell should i know about the USS Liberty? I explained why there is no reason for Israel to arrange 9/11 and why it dosen't make sense. I never dismissed anything but Israeli involvment. |
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| JFK | May 12 2009, 11:50 AM Post #42 |
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Because it is a part of your sordid history as well. No reason ? You make me laugh. Just look at how Israel has benefitted from those attacks, let alone the admission by your political leaders that "911 was good... Very good". |
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| asaf-a | May 12 2009, 01:51 PM Post #43 |
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Ohohohoho reahhhllyyy... Name one benefit that we had from 9/11. Did americans invade Lebanon to help us get rid of Hezbollah and spare us from another war in Lebanon? no, because they were not to blame on 9/11. Did americans invade the Gaza strip or the west bank to help us fight Hamas? no, because they were not to blame for 9/11. Did americans invade the Gaza strip or the west bank to help us fight the Islamic Jihad? no, because they were not to blame on 9/11. Did americans invade Syria to stop their support for terror? did they leave the view that we should give the Golan Heights to Syria? no, because they were not to blame on 9/11. Did americans invade Iran 9 years prior to the date where they will probebly have nuclear weapons that they will use against Israel? no, because they were not to blame on 9/11. If 9/11 would have been orchastrated by Israel, it would have been pointed on these targets. instead it was pointed to Afghanis and Saudi Arabians. We havn't fought Saudis since 1948, and even then it was just small militias, and we never fought either Afghanistan or Al-Qaeda. If you organize such a complicated mission in your ally's soil, you better have a better motive other then "they will kill some arabs which dosen't really bother us". |
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| noeffects | May 12 2009, 02:26 PM Post #44 |
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I think you mean..."Why the hell should I know about the USS Liberty ?" no big deal...language...i understand. well...Israeli fighter planes shot the shit out of an innocent ship for hours...killing many...I thought we were "allies"? Also... you should try to know the history of your country...you have it easy... its only 60+ years old. lol jk Just the fact you don't know about it should raise some questions for you... |
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| JFK | May 12 2009, 04:24 PM Post #45 |
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For being an "innocent" country, you sure do have an awful lot of "enemies". Saddam had absolutely nothing to do with 911 either... But he was yet another threat to Israel. And again last year.. Edited by JFK, May 12 2009, 06:31 PM.
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| asaf-a | May 13 2009, 07:31 AM Post #46 |
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JFK, i don't take your random video throwing as an argue. point out what Israeli enemy was hit after 9/11 that wasn't hit before? how did we earn from americans fighting Afghanis in the other side of the middle east? I'll get to the "alot of enemies" point after you will answer this, because of course the smallest country that is alone and has alot of enemies - is always the one to blame for the tension even though it started only one out of the seven wars it had. There are more things you should take into considiration, but i'll get to that later, first answer my question. |
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| Miragememories | May 13 2009, 09:16 AM Post #47 |
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IRAQ. Without 9/11, the U.S. could never have garnered sufficient congressional support for that invasion of Israel's enemy. MM |
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| JFK | May 13 2009, 09:26 AM Post #48 |
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True, Also apparently self professed Zionists do not read what the real Zionists are up to... http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf |
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| asaf-a | May 13 2009, 03:30 PM Post #49 |
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I asked what Israeli enemy was not attacked before 9/11. Iraq was already attacked in the first gulf war, and 9/11 led to the invasion to Afghanistan, not Iraq. Thinking that Israel did 9/11 would mean that Israel thought that in order to attack Iraq, the best idea is to fake a terror attack by hijackers from Afghanistan, not Iraq, and then hope that two years later they would feel more comfrotable with invading Iraq. It makes sort of sense backwards: 9/11 led to congressional approval of invasion to Iraq, but thinking that faking a terror attack from Saudis and Afghanis would lead to this is impossible. If 9/11 would have worked in Israel's intrest, it would have been blamed directly on Iraq / Hamas / Hezbollah. Do you know why it wasn't blamed on any of these? Because Israel didn't pick who will be to blame for 9/11, which makes Israeli intervention pointless :\ btw, i still come back to my original question of this post: I ask anyone to bring a chronological order of the attacks according to your theory. I gave example in previous page to what i mean. Edited by asaf-a, May 13 2009, 03:39 PM.
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| Domenick DiMaggio | May 13 2009, 05:05 PM Post #50 |
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wheres saddam? |
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