What I believe happened......

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What I believe happened......
Topic Started: Feb 27 2009, 06:51 PM (1,498 Views)
Domenick DiMaggio	Feb 27 2009, 06:51 PM Post #1
Posts: 2,006 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	Shanksville : Final Report Many answers many still unanswered questions. Only a fully open and transparent investigation can finally determine fact from fiction in regards to this event. What can be stated though beyond all shadow of a doubt is that the American people have not been told the truth and an active cover up is taking place. While I can only speculate the true event that caused the crater I will choose not to and instead focus on what didn’t create the 15’ x 20’ hole that was 10’ deep. That is a Boeing 757. Part I : The Crash Site & Crater and Origins Thereof To date the FBI has not presented anything near enough evidence to support the claims of over 90% of United Airlines Flight 93 being recovered from the Shanksville crash site. The only piece of recognizable debris in the 10’ deep hole is part on an engine. Coincidentally enough one witness I spoke with who stood in front of that hole that morning swore up and down to me there was no way there was an entire airplane in it. He stated that he had flown on plenty of commercial airliners in his life and was well familiar with how large they are and told me that the hole was more like the size of an engine than an entire plane. Of all the witnesses I spoke with, including Coroner Wally Miller, I waited for one of them to describe to me the massive 100’ gash in the ground caused by the impacting wings yet not one of them ever made any mention of this. But like all the other witnesses I have spoken with even Wally Miller when recalling the event was still astonished at the size of it. He wanted to clarify that the images most people seen showing this big hole in the ground were after the work had been done there and what it was that morning resembled nothing of the sort. Bob Blair and Doug Miller were driving on Route 30 that morning. Suddenly they noticed a low flying plane flying with its wings vertical to the ground. As they approached Stoystown Auto Wreckers they watched it disappear behind the treeline. Not long thereafter they noticed smoke rising up and drove towards it. As they approached the crash site someone driving away from it in a pickup truck flagged them down and told them a plane had crashed and then drove off away from the scene. Was this Lee Purbaugh? At this time one can only assume. Bob and Doug said when they arrived at the scene there was no one else present. Bob stated whoever they had passed had to be the 1st person to see as they were no doubt 2nd & 3rd . What they found when they got there astonished them. There was nothing. There were some fires. Bob and Doug immediately grabbed the fire extinguishers they carry in the work truck and extinguished what fires there were before the arrival of Stoystown Fire Department [who contrary to popular belief were the 1st responders, not Shanksville]. Both had stated they did not see neither human remains nor any recognizable airplane debris. Bob further stated he saw a burning tire that they had a heard time extinguishing and something that resembled a gear box as he called. Both corroborated others stories of how small the crater actually was. What I find most troubling is that it took me nearly 5 minutes to drive to the crash site from Stoystown Auto Wreckers and Rollock Scrap Yard is less than 100 yards from the crash site and yet none of their employees seemed to have gone out to the scene. Instead it was Bob & Doug arriving several minutes later. Personally, I think the lack of witnesses from Rollock and the man driving away from the scene [presumed to be Purbaugh] all saw something else but we’ll save that for later. In between where Bob & Doug saw the plane and its alleged final resting place was Viola Saylor. Outside in her backyard that morning Viola heard the massive roar of the planes engines as it passed by just above the treetops on her property. She was walking towards her backdoor when the plane came screaming directly over her house right at her. She described feeling a “pressure” as it passed overhead and said it had taken the leaves off the tops of the trees [but did not hit the trees]. And it passed. And then the noise was gone. Everything became real quiet and she heard someone in the distance scream “Oh my God!!!”. Then there was a thud. Viola lived very close to the crash site at that time. Had the plane crashed as alleged she would have never had noticed a silence let alone hear someone cry out in the distance before it impacted. The plane was traveling over at an alleged 500mph. Since Lee Purbaugh the only alleged impact witness chose not to speak with me after receiving advice from an attorney I have to turn to Susan McElwain for what took place next. Susan was on the opposite end of Viola. She was driving north that morning on Bridge St. in Stoystown less than a mile southwest of the crash site. First lets talk about what Susan did not see on her side of the crash site : a 757. Allegedly while Susan is approaching the stop sign and her experience takes place a 757 is diving towards the ground less than a mile in front of her. Susan did not see one because it was already gone. As for where it went that we’ll get into later. Suddenly a small white plane passes right over Susan’s vehicle flying so low to the ground it has to pull up in order to avoid crashing into the row of trees at the Bridge St & Buckstown Rd intersection. It is so low in fact that Susan’s first thoughts were “Oh my God, he’s gonna crash, he’s gonna crash”. The plane vanished behind the treeline and seconds later a smoke cloud began to rise. In between both of these witnesses are 2 witnesses I am not making public per their request but who have told me their stories in detail even after initially denying seeing anything. One woman’s husband witnessed the whole event. He is deceased now. She would not tell me what he told her but elected to say “I can only tell you what I saw”. Her husband was on the porch when it happened. She was in the house. She heard a thud. Puzzled by it she went outside to see what had happened. When she got out there she noticed her husband was looking off towards the trees and that there was a small little white plane in the sky. She said seconds later she began to notice smoke rising up over the treeline directly below this “strange little white plane” as she described it. She then further corroborated Susan’s description of it but adding that it had a small window on the front which led her to believe it had an occupant. When I inquired as to whether it was capable of carrying passengers like a small corporate plane she clearly stated this was not possible. Also outside at this time was her neighbor who I also spoke with. The neighbor arrived outside after the smoke had started to rise but other than that corroborated every single other detail the previous witness stated. Southwest of the crash site was the Salt Mill where Rick Chaney was working when this event took place. Rick felt a rumble and noticed everyone else seemed to be heading to go outside. He then followed. When he got outside he described seeing a small white plane which he too confirmed was not any type of passenger plane or corporate plane and could not accommodate groups of people. Said it looked military but not like anything he had ever seen before and that it made him think it was some sort of scout plane or something similar. The other inconsistency is that the blast trajectory of the impact and the flight path conflict. One aerial photo clearly demonstrates the blast trajectory into the woods is in a southwest direction while Viola’s house is located northwest. Indian Lake is southeast of the crash site. This little fact was argued about with me by Wally Miller who insisted Indian Lake was in the direction of the trajectory but clearly this is not true. Part II : If Not Shanksville Then Where? In Loose Change : Final Cut Indian Lake Mayor Barry Lichty elaborates on his experience that morning. He says the power had gone off and he felt a tremor and then he heard what “sounded like a missile” come over his house because it was “going that fast”. Then he states that it “was coming from that direction” [the crash site]. Barry says it wasn’t the aircraft that crashed though because Flight 93 never flew anywhere near of over Indian Lake according to the official story of it. But that’s because Barry has no reason to suspect the government is lying to him. There is no other explanation for what went screaming from the crash site immediately after the explosion than it was the plane witnessed by Bob, Doug, & Viola which if it continued to fly would have been in a direct path with Indian Lake. Viola said that in order for the plane to have crashed the way they said it did compared to the way it was when she saw it the plane would have had to pull up and then nose dive into the ground which of course is aerodynamically impossible. It is interesting also to note that Viola turned down an opportunity to be an Official Ambassador at the Flight 93 Memorial because “I wouldn’t go along with the stories”. So how do we get from the crash site to Indian Lake? Is there any witness in between the two to confirm this flight path? The answer is yes and who it is will surprise you : Val McClatchey. Val McClatchey lives Southeast of the crash site directly in between the site and Indian Lake. On the morning of 9/11 Val was sitting on her couch when she first heard Flight 93 fly over head. The problem is Flight 93 never flew over her house. After she heard the plane she said she looked outside the window and caught a glimpse of it before it crashed. But knowing what I know from all the other eyewitnesses this simply cannot be true. She only could have heard Flight 93 flyover towards the crash site as Susan did not see the plane and I have corroborated her claims of the small white plane being there at the exact time with the other eyewitness discussed earlier. Claims of Flight 93 flying over Indian Lake can be found in every local paper in Pennsylvania and lists a group of names for being having heard the plane fly overhead including : Indian Lake Marina Manager Jim Brandt, Indian Lake Marina Employees John Fleegle and Carol Delasko, Indian Lake Golf Course Employee Chris Smith, and Jim Stop who was reportedly fishing in Indian Lake and actually watched the plane fly overhead. According to the Pittsburgh Tribune Review Jim witnessed the plane losing pieces as it flew over. No one at Indian Lake can ever hear Flight 93 flyover if the official story is true. Indian Lake is 3 miles southeast of the alleged impact site. No one witnessed Flight 93 approach the crashsite from the Southeast but from the Northwest. This indicates the plane continued on past the alleged impact spot in a direct line most likely ascending. Part III : What Happened to the Passengers? This is always the last question people have when told a plane did not crash in the Shanksville field. Which while we’re at it isn’t even really Shanksville but Lambertsville. This is just another thing the American people have been lied to about. But onto the story of Wally Miller and human remains….. Not one person witnessed human remains at the Flight 93 crash site on 9/11. Despite many people searching for remains of anything throughout the immediate area none were seen. Naturally I found this to be very surprising when Wally Miller showed me the photographs he took on the following day after stating he too did not discover any remains on the 11th. The photographs Wally took showed very little evidence of human remains. So little one could attribute it all to coming from one human being. There were several photos of a severed left arm, a couple which appeared to be a human scalp, and lastly a couple of what appeared to be an organ perhaps a heart or lung it was hard to distinguish in the photo. The amazing part is that all of these remains photographed by Wally on the 12th were in plain view laying in dirt. The only dirt in the vicinity is the dirt road which the plane allegedly crashed by. Everyone was traveling up and down this road and many people wondered off into the area of the blast trajectory into the woods. None reported seeing any such thing and let me tell you the half an arm would have easily been noticed. Wally Miller never found a drop of blood at the crash site. Despite a severed arm laying in dirt along with what appeared to be internal organs none of them left a single trace of blood where they were recovered. Instead the FBI recovered the remains [undocumented of course] and proceeded to bring them into the DMORT facility they erected for Miller and the task of identifying the deceased. The FBI then in turn would bring the remains to Miller without any proper documentation of their chain of custody or place of location. The FBI also provided Miller the list of names of who he would find and provided samples of those said individuals to Miller. So they gave Miller the names of the victims, the remains of the victims, & the DNA samples to test against those remains to confirm their identities. The FBI took Wally Miller by the hand and led him down the path of the deceived. And with that they accomplished their necessary ending to their story in Shanksville. That is my conclusion based on over 2.5 years researching hands on with many many hours logged interviewing eyewitnesses in person, over the phone, through email, & on video. Taken their accounts and seeing how they fit with the little one sentences released by the corporate media of other witnesses and putting the puzzle together. Ultimately I cannot tell you what happened to the plane that fly in front of Bob Blair & Doug Miller, passed Viola Saylor, & then heard flying overhead by McClatchey and all the Indian Lake residents. But I can tell you it did not crash in a field in Lambertsville [Shanksville] on the morning of 9/11 and the case made that it did by the US Government and 9/11 Commission and corporate media fails epically to scrutiny and a new fully open public transparent hearing is necessary to finally finding out and understanding the truth of what really happened on the morning of 9/11. Recommended links : Flight 93 Shanksville : 9/11 Truth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4i6mBekt-8 9/11 : The Shanksville Files Vol I : Susan McElwain : http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=80...+mcelwain&hl=en 9/11 : The Shanksville Files Vol II : Wally Miller : http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=24...ly+miller&hl=en 9/11 : The Shanksville Files Vol III : Viola Saylor : http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4...la+saylor&hl=en Pandora’s Black Box Vol III : Flight of United 93 : http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1...black+box&hl=en Loose Change : Final Cut : http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3...final+cut&hl=en Pittsburgh Post Gazette Coverage of Flight 93 : http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/93index9.asp Pittsburgh Tribune review Flight 93 archives : http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/search/?se...ch%2F&x=20&y=15
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Lin Kuei	Feb 27 2009, 07:21 PM Post #2
Posts: 1,312 Group: Admins Member #5 Joined: 12/22/07	This is terrific, Dom. Great work and thanks for posting.
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JFK	Feb 27 2009, 07:43 PM Post #3
Posts: 4,225 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	What Lin said.
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Domenick DiMaggio	Feb 27 2009, 07:45 PM Post #4
Posts: 2,006 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	thank you for the feedback gentlemen!
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Zaphod 36	Mar 1 2009, 09:30 AM Post #5
Posts: 50 Group: Members Member #210 Joined: 01/25/08	Domenick DiMaggio Feb 27 2009, 07:45 PM As they approached the crash site someone driving away from it in a pickup truck flagged them down and told them a plane had crashed and then drove off away from the scene. Was this Lee Purbaugh? At this time one can only assume. This could have been Nevin Lambert on his way to the second load of coal. He also have a pickup truck. Do you know where the man flagged them down? At the beginning of the Skyline Road? Was he talking unintelligibly and was he upset or calm? Quote: What I find most troubling is that it took me nearly 5 minutes to drive to the crash site from Stoystown Auto Wreckers and Rollock Scrap Yard is less than 100 yards from the crash site and yet none of their employees seemed to have gone out to the scene. Instead it was Bob & Doug arriving several minutes later. Perhaps the Rollock employees didn`t heard the explosion, because of the vacuum effect.(remember Susan M. and other people). I`m sceptical about Lee Purbaugh that he was actually working at Rollock(his first day there). To administration: I still cannot log in from my personal computer after changing the internet provider. Its only possible from other computers
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JFK	Mar 1 2009, 09:56 AM Post #6
Posts: 4,225 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	Zaphod 36 Mar 1 2009, 09:30 AM To administration: I still cannot log in from my personal computer after changing the internet provider. Its only possible from other computers Clear your cache and cookies. If that does not work, PM me with your IP address and any error messages and I will look. Edited by JFK, Mar 1 2009, 09:57 AM.
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noeffects	Mar 1 2009, 11:07 AM Post #7
Posts: 798 Group: Members Member #178 Joined: 01/22/08	Zaphod you raise a big hmm.. first day on the job Lee Purbaugh? interesting any ideas of Purbaughs former employers?
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Zaphod 36	Mar 1 2009, 12:50 PM Post #8
Posts: 50 Group: Members Member #210 Joined: 01/25/08	Quote: any ideas of Purbaughs former employers? Michael Shepley, the son of Linda Shepley, was there and caught only a little glimpse of the plane. When his mother arrived from Stoystown, he directed the traffic on the street. Purbaugh and Shepley ended their work at Rollock since(?). I was there few years ago and asked for them.
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Domenick DiMaggio	Mar 2 2009, 02:00 AM Post #9
Posts: 2,006 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	Zaphod 36 Mar 1 2009, 09:30 AM This could have been Nevin Lambert on his way to the second load of coal. He also have a pickup truck. Do you know where the man flagged them down? At the beginning of the Skyline Road? Was he talking unintelligibly and was he upset or calm? it wasn't lambert. Quote: Perhaps the Rollock employees didn`t heard the explosion, because of the vacuum effect.(remember Susan M. and other people). I`m sceptical about Lee Purbaugh that he was actually working at Rollock(his first day there). im skeptical of purbaugh because of other eyewitness accounts.
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Domenick DiMaggio	Mar 2 2009, 02:00 AM Post #10
Posts: 2,006 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	noeffects Mar 1 2009, 11:07 AM Zaphod you raise a big hmm.. first day on the job Lee Purbaugh? interesting any ideas of Purbaughs former employers? i know purbaugh is exmilitary but i don't know to what extent.
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Domenick DiMaggio	Mar 2 2009, 02:02 AM Post #11
Posts: 2,006 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	Zaphod 36 Mar 1 2009, 12:50 PM Quote: any ideas of Purbaughs former employers? Michael Shepley, the son of Linda Shepley, was there and caught only a little glimpse of the plane. When his mother arrived from Stoystown, he directed the traffic on the street. Purbaugh and Shepley ended their work at Rollock since(?). I was there few years ago and asked for them. shepley is a liar and didn't see anything. i've spoken with multiple people who know shepley and they all tell me what a liar he is. every single one of them. from what eyewitnesses told me shepley showed up at the scene after the fact and started asking people what happened. once he had the general consensus he ran up to the media and started telling them all how he witnessed it. shepley didn't see anything and i've got that from multiple witnesses whom i trust.
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Domenick DiMaggio	Mar 3 2009, 12:18 AM Post #12
Posts: 2,006 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	john fleegle discusses hearing flight 93 fly over indian lake marina : i believe the plane he discusses seing afterwards is either the small one at a high altitude or most likely the large white plane that arrived on the scene. again the significance is that no one saw flight 93 approach the crash site from the southeast where indian lake was located but from the northwest which would be in a direct line over indian lake 3 miles southeast of the site. if flight 93 flew over indian lake it can only be because it did not crash in shanksville.
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Zaphod 36	Mar 3 2009, 10:08 AM Post #13
Posts: 50 Group: Members Member #210 Joined: 01/25/08	Domenick DiMaggio Mar 2 2009, 02:02 AM i've spoken with multiple people who know shepley and they all tell me what a liar he is. every single one of them. from what eyewitnesses told me shepley showed up at the scene after the fact and started asking people what happened. once he had the general consensus he ran up to the media and started telling them all how he witnessed it. shepley didn't see anything and i've got that from multiple witnesses whom i trust. What was the reson for him to lie? A private conversation with the FBI or just a need to come into the media and get some cash? Lee Purbaugh served three years in the navy, according to some internet sources. Quote: again the significance is that no one saw flight 93 approach the crash site from the southeast where indian lake was located but from the northwest which would be in a direct line over indian lake 3 miles southeast of the site. But no one saw Flight 93 approach Indian Lake from the crash site either. We only have Jim Stop, of whom we don't know if his name is real and "residents of Indian Lake" who saw a plane "falling apart on their homes". We have Barry Lichty who heard a sound like missile, coming from the crash site. Can a plane make such a screaming noise, perhaps just for few seconds? We have a trail of small plane parts till New Baltimore and some news reports about a plane crash at Camp David later, which corroborates your suspicion that the plane continued his path to the southeast.
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Domenick DiMaggio	Mar 4 2009, 02:32 AM Post #14
Posts: 2,006 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	Zaphod 36 Mar 3 2009, 10:08 AM Domenick DiMaggio Mar 2 2009, 02:02 AM i've spoken with multiple people who know shepley and they all tell me what a liar he is. every single one of them. from what eyewitnesses told me shepley showed up at the scene after the fact and started asking people what happened. once he had the general consensus he ran up to the media and started telling them all how he witnessed it. shepley didn't see anything and i've got that from multiple witnesses whom i trust. What was the reson for him to lie? A private conversation with the FBI or just a need to come into the media and get some cash? Lee Purbaugh served three years in the navy, according to some internet sources. he didn't see anything. everyone in the area knows of him and holds the same opinion. he's an attention whore. Quote: But no one saw Flight 93 approach Indian Lake from the crash site either. We only have Jim Stop, of whom we don't know if his name is real and "residents of Indian Lake" who saw a plane "falling apart on their homes". plus all the witnesses who heard the plane fly over them. val mcclatchey who is between the site and indian lake heard flight 93 fly over her home and all the indian lake residents heard it fly overhead. so while i haven't found any eyewitnesses to the event [of course i haven't had the resources to investigate it either] there are many many who heard it in the mainstream media. Quote: We have Barry Lichty who heard a sound like missile, coming from the crash site. Can a plane make such a screaming noise, perhaps just for few seconds? joe wilt also heard that 'scream' as did the people ernie stuhl talked about. i don't know what else to make of it. when piecing the puzzle together this is the picture i am left with.
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RUkiddin	Mar 5 2009, 12:31 PM Post #15
Posts: 6 Group: Members Member #1,056 Joined: 02/12/09	Domenick DiMaggio Feb 27 2009, 06:51 PM Not one person witnessed human remains at the Flight 93 crash site on 9/11. Despite many people searching for remains of anything throughout the immediate area none were seen. I found this hard to believe, and 30 seconds of googling shows why. This page has quotes from several first responders who say they saw human remains on 9/11, plus Wally Miller. http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/flight93page1 1) Why didn't you mention these accounts? 2) Did you ask these first responders about seening human remains? Did you ask any first responders that? 3) Is your opinion that all these people are lying?
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Aldo Marquis CIT	Mar 5 2009, 03:13 PM Post #16
Posts: 1,650 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: 01/14/08	Naw JREFr, we ain't kiddin'. Allow me to re-post Dom's beatdown of Mark Roberts and his garbage for you. You paying attention? Quote: the "goddamn creep" will quickly debunk roberts now. claim #1 : There were no bodies, he says. Just body parts. -firefighter rick king. source : http://web.archive.org/web/20030310095608/http://www.psats.org/sept11+stonycreek+jan02.pdf rebuttal : "and i'm just looked around and no people, and i'm thinking where are the people" - firefighter rick king. source : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fU-FyKAL9A claim #2 : “There were small pieces everywhere and small signs of human remains. It was total destruction.” - firefighter rick king. source : http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:5HUtBB...93_unedited.doc rebuttal : here is another interview with rick king where while describing the crash site in detail he makes no mention of seeing anything resembling human remains and states : "we did a couple searches of the woods, sent firemen in they kept coming back...nothing. i mean you didn't even see any evidence of humans at all..." which leads king to even think maybe it was just a pilot and copilot [since they didn't see any human remains anywhere]. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvCn4rNdjSE...1ECB6A&index=28 again rick king in 2 seperate interviews where he mentions there were no remains versus 2 links provided by mark roberts one of which is dead. sorry mark, you lose. i like the link you provided though for the pittsburgh tribune..... http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_90823.html Quote: Val McClatchey heard the 757 roar over Indian Lake, three miles east of where it would crash. She had been watching the "Today" show, with footage from New York, and now the Pentagon. She looked out the window, above the red barns. She caught a glimpse of it, like light off a watch face. Then nothing, and then a boom that nearly knocked her off the couch. "I thought it was an accident," McClatchey says, a Time and a Newsweek and a Reader's Digest in the binder on the coffee table, the pages with her photo marked with Post-Its. "I thought it was a small plane. I figured they were just trying to get out of the air." thanks for posting links to validate my claims mark. and proving yet again you are a waste of my time. Edited by Aldo Marquis CIT, Mar 5 2009, 03:14 PM.
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RUkiddin	Mar 5 2009, 05:20 PM Post #17
Posts: 6 Group: Members Member #1,056 Joined: 02/12/09	So you think all those first responders, most of whom are volunteers, and Wallace Miller, are lying? These are lies, too? Firefighter Mike Sube: "We made our way to a small pond. That's where I observed the largest piece of wreckage that I saw, a portion of the landing gear and fuselage. One of the tires was still intact with the bracket, and probably about three to five windows of the fuselage were actually in one piece lying there. ...There were enough fires that our brush truck was down there numerous times. ...I saw small pieces of human remains and occasionally some larger pieces. That was disturbing, but what was most disturbing was seeing personal effects." Lieutenant Roger Bailey, Somerset Volunteer Fire Department: "We started down through the debris field. I saw pieces of fiberglass, pieces of airplane, pop rivets, and mail...Mail was scattered everywhere. ...the one guy who was with us almost stepped on a piece of human remains. I grabbed him, and he got about half woozy over it." King: "We stopped and I opened the door. The smell of jet fuel was overpowering. I will never forget that smell; it is really burnt into my mind. ...I walked down the power line and got my first glimpse of human remains. Then I walked a little further and saw more." When former firefighter Dave Fox arrived at the scene, "He saw a wiring harness, and a piston. None of the other pieces was bigger than a TV remote. He saw three chunks of torn human tissue. He swallowed hard. 'You knew there were people there, but you couldn't see them,' he says." ...Miller was familiar with scenes of sudden and violent death, although none quite like this. Walking in his gumboots, the only recognisable body part he saw was a piece of spinal cord, with five vertebrae attached. These are all lies? Are you standing by that story?
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skunkrider	Mar 5 2009, 06:51 PM Post #18
Posts: 328 Group: Members Member #166 Joined: 01/21/08	a present coroner said there was not a single drop of blood to be found. the live-tv coverage did not mention any human remains, and asking people who were on site yielded the same result. the whole thing is so wrong and impossible, I don't know why people still defend it. there were no heroic white handsome american passengers trying to regain control of the plane, period. if there was a plane, it was shot down. I recently saw a picture allegedly being a pre-911 geological record from the shanksville area, and strangely enough one can see several of those alleged impact craters. if anyone knows them, please post them. it's been half a year that I saw them. darn me for not saving them
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RUkiddin	Mar 5 2009, 07:25 PM Post #19
Posts: 6 Group: Members Member #1,056 Joined: 02/12/09	The coroner, Wallace Miller, personally positively ID'd 11 flight 93 victims. skunkrider, those "craters" are about 4 times larger than the flight 93 crater and, are oriented in completely the wrong direction. The site had been a strip mine. Is it your opinion that the first responders are lying about the aircraft parts, personal effects, human remains, etc., and that everyone else who was there is covering up for them? Edited by RUkiddin, Mar 5 2009, 07:28 PM.
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Domenick DiMaggio	Mar 5 2009, 07:39 PM Post #20
Posts: 2,006 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	RUkiddin Mar 5 2009, 12:31 PM Domenick DiMaggio Feb 27 2009, 06:51 PM Not one person witnessed human remains at the Flight 93 crash site on 9/11. Despite many people searching for remains of anything throughout the immediate area none were seen. I found this hard to believe, and 30 seconds of googling shows why. This page has quotes from several first responders who say they saw human remains on 9/11, plus Wally Miller. http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/flight93page1 1) Why didn't you mention these accounts? 2) Did you ask these first responders about seening human remains? Did you ask any first responders that? 3) Is your opinion that all these people are lying? 1) they're debunked already. 2) i asked the coroner. does he count? 3) my opinion is that the authors of those articles are lying. if you have video to validate their claims i would like to see it. i posted 2 clips of firefighter rick king saying they didn't see anything resembling human remains. VIDEOS OF RICK KING SAYING IT. mark roberts posted 2 links [1 dead] where some author claims he did. RICK KING > MARK ROBERTS. get it?
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Domenick DiMaggio	Mar 5 2009, 07:43 PM Post #21
Posts: 2,006 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	RUkiddin Mar 5 2009, 05:20 PM So you think all those first responders, most of whom are volunteers, and Wallace Miller, are lying? These are lies, too? Firefighter Mike Sube: "We made our way to a small pond. That's where I observed the largest piece of wreckage that I saw, a portion of the landing gear and fuselage. One of the tires was still intact with the bracket, and probably about three to five windows of the fuselage were actually in one piece lying there. ...There were enough fires that our brush truck was down there numerous times. ...I saw small pieces of human remains and occasionally some larger pieces. That was disturbing, but what was most disturbing was seeing personal effects." Lieutenant Roger Bailey, Somerset Volunteer Fire Department: "We started down through the debris field. I saw pieces of fiberglass, pieces of airplane, pop rivets, and mail...Mail was scattered everywhere. ...the one guy who was with us almost stepped on a piece of human remains. I grabbed him, and he got about half woozy over it." King: "We stopped and I opened the door. The smell of jet fuel was overpowering. I will never forget that smell; it is really burnt into my mind. ...I walked down the power line and got my first glimpse of human remains. Then I walked a little further and saw more." When former firefighter Dave Fox arrived at the scene, "He saw a wiring harness, and a piston. None of the other pieces was bigger than a TV remote. He saw three chunks of torn human tissue. He swallowed hard. 'You knew there were people there, but you couldn't see them,' he says." ...Miller was familiar with scenes of sudden and violent death, although none quite like this. Walking in his gumboots, the only recognisable body part he saw was a piece of spinal cord, with five vertebrae attached. These are all lies? Are you standing by that story? i spoke with wally miller. i released a 45 minute interview of it. maybe you should stop reading mark roberts? wally miller never found a trace of blood. wally miller said they did not see or recover any remains on the 11th. are you calling the coroner a liar? also wally miller showed me the photographs he took of human remains at the crash site. there was no pictures of anyones spinal cord. the writer of this account is having their own way with it and you don't mind at all since they lie to support your lies. the remains weren't there on the 11th. a small amount was suddenly found on the 12th. the rest wally miller was given by the fbi. miller then claimed to find human remains a few months later. get your facts straight.
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Domenick DiMaggio	Mar 5 2009, 07:45 PM Post #22
Posts: 2,006 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	RUkiddin Mar 5 2009, 07:25 PM The coroner, Wallace Miller, personally positively ID'd 11 flight 93 victims. source?
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RUkiddin	Mar 5 2009, 11:25 PM Post #23
Posts: 6 Group: Members Member #1,056 Joined: 02/12/09	Domenick DiMaggio Mar 5 2009, 07:45 PM RUkiddin Mar 5 2009, 07:25 PM The coroner, Wallace Miller, personally positively ID'd 11 flight 93 victims. source? My mistake: Miller personally identified 12 of the victims, not 11. The source is Wallace Miller. The link is right there on the page I linked to. I'm surprised you didn't know this, given the length of time you've spent on this.
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hamba	Mar 6 2009, 04:36 AM Post #24
Posts: 53 Group: Skeptics Member #387 Joined: 03/09/08	Dom, thank you for posting this. Yet, most of it is difficult to understand in a contextual sense. If you could rewrite it with a timeline, it would be easier to understand. One could get a better picture of who was there when. i.e. time Susan saw the white plane, time Val saw the explosion and so on. Correlations can be drawn and a better overall understanding of the events can be made. A well formatted timeline will be very useful in proving some points.
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skunkrider	Mar 6 2009, 06:33 AM Post #25
Posts: 328 Group: Members Member #166 Joined: 01/21/08	RUkiddin, are you kidding? You quote a website and obviously haven't read it yourself? How professional is that? http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/flight93page1 ...Miller was familiar with scenes of sudden and violent death, although none quite like this. Walking in his gumboots, the only recognisable body part he saw was a piece of spinal cord, with five vertebrae attached. 'I've seen a lot of highway fatalities where there's fragmentation,' Miller said. 'The interesting thing about this particular case is that I haven't, to this day, 11 months later, seen any single drop of blood. Not a drop. The only thing I can deduce is that the crash was over in half a second. There was a fireball 15-20 metres high, so all of that material just got vaporised.'" http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/flight93page1 Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller has spent almost every waking hour at the crash site with FBI agents, and is now in charge of identifying all of the passengers. "The FBI were the people that I really interacted with the most. I must tell you that I'm gonna feel better about paying my Federal Income Tax estimates now than I did prior to September 11th." This clearly tells me that a) Wallace Miller could not find any remains or blood or bodyparts other than the spine he talks about, and b) that he had the task of genetically comparing whatever was given to him by the FBI with what DNA was available from the victims. If you let a plane drop and fall onto a certain target in the landscape, and if the plane was rigged with some kind of explosives, the result could not have been more precise. Of course the explosion would've had to take place somewhat in the air, otherwise it can't account for the plane debris found miles away...
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