You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.
before 1913, any and all americans were allowed to own cannons? gattling guns? chemical weapons? explosives?
Essentially, yes they were. If you have some info to the contrary, please do post it. And machine guns weren't banned until the 30s....right before organized crime peaked through the roof. But what does that have to do with the guns you mentioned before? Why is it that you have to change the goalposts when you get called on your ignorance? What do Glocks and AKs (two firearms that I happen to own) have to do with chemical weapons and "gattling guns" (I'll assume you mean gatling guns)?
well, until someone shows me some evidence that every american could possess anything they wanted, prior to 1913, i will consider it an unproven assumption.
well, until someone shows me some evidence that every american could possess anything they wanted, prior to 1913, i will consider it an unproven assumption.
Damn, I was wrong again... it was 1926.
Quote:
International Association for Property and Evidence, Inc. Evidence Log - Volume 2004 Number 3 The following article was prepared by Greg Stewart, Anchorage (AK) Police Department, as a training aid for officers. It provides a thorough synopsis of federal gun laws, and directly applies them to the release of firearms by Property Room personnel.
HISTORY AND SUMMARY OF FEDERAL GUN LAWS
By Property and Evidence Section Supervisor Greg A. Stewart Anchorage (AK) Police Department
The following excerpts are highlights of information compiled from various sources, including the United States Department of Justice, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), along with several internet websites containing summaries and opinions relating to the history of federal firearm laws.
Following World War I the public became increasingly concerned over private ownership and an individual's right to possess revolvers and pistols. A uniform firearm law was initially proposed to the National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws in 1923. The first draft was titled Uniform Act to Regulate the Sale and Possession of Firearms and presented by the NCC for consideration in 1925. A modified version of the draft was finally adopted by the NCC in 1926.
The National Firearms Act (NFA) was enacted by Congress in 1934 after George "Machine Gun" Kelley rained havoc and death on law enforcement officers and innocent citizens of this country with a machine gun. The National Firearms Act fell under the Congressional "commerce power" and "taxing power". The NFA, enacted under the Internal Revenue Code, required that all machine guns must be registered, placed on approved list, and identified to one owner. It provided for the levy of taxes on the manufacture, sale, and transfer of certain classes of firearms.
The NFA omitted handguns and long guns considered to be sporting firearms. However, the significant effect of the NFA, with supporting case law, allowed for government seizure of any NF A regulated firearm, such as machine guns, from the owner upon their death. Provisions of the NF A do allow for the eventual transfer of NFA firearms to an heir when lawful for them to possess.
The Federal Firearms Act (FFA) of 193 8 was enacted imposing a federal license requirement on gun manufacturers, importers, and those persons in business of selling firearms. Additionally, the act imposed a $200 tax on machine gun owners, required records be maintained relating to the transfer of firearms and prohibited certain classes of individuals, such as convicted felons, identified as "prohibited persons" from possessing a firearm.
The assassination of President John F. Kennedy on November 22, 1963, by Lee Harvey Oswald, the assassination of Martin Luther King, April 4, 1968, and the assassination of Robert Kennedy on June 5, 1968, by Sirhan Sirhan, created the foundation for enacting The Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, Title 18 United States Code, Chapter 44. The Gun Control Act repealed the Federal Firearms Act, however, it did retain the majority of its components.
An interesting aspect of The Gun Control Act of 1968, is the list of criteria under Section 922, Unlawful Acts, Subsection (g)( 1- 7). All seven of the initial criteria listed (which prohibit an individual from possessing or transferring a firearm or ammunition), are all directly attributed to the background of presidential assassin Lee Harvey Oswald.
The initial criteria under Title 18. U.S.C., Chapter 44, Section 922(g) "Unlawful Acts" stated: It shall be unlawful for any person to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or effecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce:
1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
2) who is a fugitive :from justice;
3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;
4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;
5) who, being an alien: (The following subsections were added in 1998)
A) is illegally or unlawfully in the U.S. or
B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the U.S. under a nonimmigrant visa;
6) who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
7) who, having been a citizen of the U.S., has renounced his citizenship.
There are two other interesting aspects of the Gun Control Act. The first is under federal law it is unlawful for an individual identified to anyone of the above 7 attributes to possess "any firearm or ammunition". Therefore, a felon in possession of "ammunition" can be charged under federal law in the same manner as if they were in possession of a "firearm", whether or not they had the gun with them at the time. The second aspect is the Gun Control Act falls under "interstate commerce" and applies to everyone who owns, or possesses, a firearm or ammunition initially imported across a state line.
The Firearms Owners' Protection Act of 1986 ("FOP A") was also referred to as the McClure-Volkmer Act, and significantly amended The Gun Control Act by liberalizing restrictions previously held for sellers of firearms. The act allowed dealers to sell at gun shows away from their place of business, limited the number of inspections without a search warrant to a dealers' premises by the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, reduced some of the requirements for engaging in the business of selling firearms for purposes of a federal license, and prevented the federal government from maintaining a central database of firearms dealer sales and transaction records.
The Section R of The Gun Control Act was amended in 1991 preventing the importation of gun parts that could be assembled into a prohibited NFA weapon.
The Gun Control Act was amended in 1993, as The Bradv Handgun Violence Prevention Act, which imposed a five-day waiting period when purchasing a handgun, and other possession restrictions for harassing, stalking and domestic violence related behaviors. The amendment contained a provision for the five-day waiting period to automatically apply to rifles and shotguns five years later, in November of 1998.
The domestic violence possession restrictions were incorporated into Title 18, U.S.C., Chapter 44, Section 922(g) as subsections (8-9), which state:
8) who is subject to a court order that:
A) was issued after a hearing in which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate;
B) restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person, or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and
C) i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or
ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or
9) who has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
The 1994 Crime Bill was enacted adding provisions banning assault weapons which covers shotguns and rifles. This amendment has a sunset clause dated September of2004, which mayor may not be reenacted.
The Gun Control Act was amended in 1998 prohibiting any classification of immigrant from owning or possessing any firearm with a few exceptions. This amendment does not apply to an alien admitted to the U. S. under a nonimmigrant visa for lawful hunting or sporting purposes and a few other exceptions.
There are other aspects of the "Unlawful Acts" specifically addressed in the current Gun Control Act related to the possession or transfer of a firearm or ammunition. The first relates to an individual identified under 922 (d) as an "unlawful user of drugs". The provisions is also included into several others, which state that possession or transfer of a firearm or ammunition is specifically prohibited if an individual is an "unlawful user of or addicted to drugs".
The Gun Control Act defines "a drug user" essentially as any individual convicted of a drug offense within the last year, or multiple offenses within the last five years, is considered an "unlawful user of or addicted to drugs", whether or not they are under the influence of a drug at the time of contact, can not lawfully possess a firearm or ammunition under the Federal Gun Control Act.
In addition to federal gun laws there are three criminal court decisions relating to the possess ion of a firearm worthy of notation; 1) U.S. vs. Harvey, 2) U.S. vs. Craig and 3) U.S. vs. Caron.
These court decisions provide three judicially recognized findings:
1)that a prohibited person (felon) in possession of a firearm or ammunition, has no ownership rights to either, and can not transfer ownership of the firearm or ammunition to another person, and
2) a third party custodian cannot lawfully take possession of property that the owner themselves cannot lawfully possess, and
3) if state law prohibits a person from possessing one type of firearm, then federal law prohibits them from possessing any type of firearm.
The federal interpretation of these decisions directly effect how law enforcement should be determining the release, retention or forfeiture of firearms associated with any individual who possesses anyone of the elements of the "unlawful acts" identified under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, Section 922.
As an example, a person under indictment, formerly charged or convicted of a domestic violence related crime cannot possess a firearm or ammunition, therefore, a third party custodian can not possess them either. The same applies to a person convicted of any felony or who is a user of or addicted to drugs.
There are other federal firearms regulations not presented in this document. Additionally, there are varying legal and lay opinions relating to the interpretation of federal firearms laws and regulations. Some opinions and other available resources may take issue with some of the information provided here.
For additional details on federal firearms laws and related materials visit: www.atf.gov/ www.saf.org/LawReviews/Brabner-Smithl.html www.law.upenn.edu/library/u1c/u1c.htm
would you prefer there be Machine Gun Kellys running around the country mowing down policemen and pedistrians? how can you possibly have a civil society if everyone and anyone can buy a machine gun?
Arbor, Laws are like locks.... It keeps honest people honest.
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to fabricate a "machine gun"... and grenades are much easier.
What do you propose now, making it a crime to think about how one would go about fabricating one ?
Tell me, why did it take 50 rounds by "profesionals" to stop an unarmed man ? ( Sean Bell... Google it. ) Should these laws also apply to those "professionals" ?
ofcourse i have. ive fired a shotgun and took riflery in college. i hope to go with a co-worker to a shooting range and try out all types of handgun. i have nothing against guns. i just dont think we should all be walking around with them.
I was out hunting alone with my .22 bolt action rifle when I was 7... shot my first 12 ga. shotgun round when I was 8, and had mastered the colt .45 when I was 12.
If you have nothing against guns, what are you argueing about ?
Personally I don't walk around with a gun, and as a matter of fact I no longer own one.. My choice.
That does not mean I am going to undermine one of the greatest "G*Ddamn pieces of paper" written by man in the history of the world, like you do on a constant basis.
well, i stated that i believe there should be some gun control, such as the ban on ownership of machine guns and preventing mentally disturbed people from owning guns. but i have zero problem with the average joe owning rifles and shotguns..and pistols of they have a permit to do so. in my state, it is legal for anyone over the age of 18 to buy a longgun. i have no specific issue with that. but i do want a nation wide system to keep guns out of the hands of paranoid schizophrenics, severally depressed people, psychotics, etc.
i think, this is all good and just. others think i am a socialist gun grabber. i honestly, dont care. =)
but i do want a nation wide system to keep guns out of the hands of paranoid schizophrenics, severally depressed people, psychotics, etc.
...and I want you to propose a just and equitable piece of legislation all full of silly things like checks and balances that doesn't infringe on the rights of legitimate gun owners that acheives your goal. But you won't, or can't. I guess the Rolling Stones say it best for both of us..."You can't always get what you want"
I am for gun control that keeps guns out of the hands of criminals, but does not infringe on my rights to own them. While I have a gun collection, it is not as complete as I want due to the laws in the USA. The NFA of 1934 is a defacto ban on some guns in the USA, depending on if your local sheriff is willing to sign the ATF paperwork.
Someone here said machine guns are banned in the USA; that is not correct. The federal government does not ban any small arms, but they do place strict controls on some such as machine guns, silencers and short barreled rifles and short barreled shotguns. They all required a $200 tax be paid before transfer or making. Civilians can not personally own machine guns made after May 1986.
Just curious. I am largely against gun control in all its forms. I think people should be able to own any kind they want and as many as they want. I own many. If I could own ONE gun it would be this one:
You?
I know nothing about guns. What makes this gun desirable compared to all the others?
October 16, 1991 Dr. Suzanne Gratia Hupp- Gives her testimony on being involved in a mass murder situation and seeing her parents get killed in the "Luby's Massacre" in Killeen, Texas.
The Luby's massacre remained the worst mass shooting in United States history until April 16, 2007.
Just curious. I am largely against gun control in all its forms. I think people should be able to own any kind they want and as many as they want. I own many. If I could own ONE gun it would be this one:
You?
I know nothing about guns. What makes this gun desirable compared to all the others?
You Yanks think yourself very lucky . As after Dumblaine in the UK the govt took all the guns . They gave you 96% of the brand new value. But still yook them , now gun crime has rocketed. If you had a firearms cert like me , you will have to have had no convictions for assult , theift DWI . THIS MENT ONLY LAW ABIDING CITIZENS HAD THEM Now every black kid in the inner citys has a reactivated gun as a fashion accessory.Which the govt is now banning . In sunny Scotland there has also been a crackdown on FUCKING AIRGUNS. Be very careful as when there gone there gone. Iam glad i have family in the USA , & i have guns in the USA .Think yourselves lucky to have a constitutional right to bear arms , were fucked in the UK. Defend this right as all the bleeding heart Liberal bastards will have i from you. here is no point crying about it when you fat on your ass on the couch , when its too late . These bastards took my 4 hand guns , fucking smiling as they did it aswell.My family in upstate NY look after my 7mm magnum. You Americans need to look at the rest of the world & see what you have to loose. Rant over .
5:28 PM Dec 6
