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| Whats Wrong with International Institutions?; taboo topic from hell | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 21 2008, 05:57 PM (807 Views) | |
| arbor | Feb 21 2008, 05:57 PM Post #1 |
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Whats wrong with the UN? The International War Crimes Court? The European Union? For the last 4,000 years, the world has seen conflict and bloodshed, mostly based on divisions of nationality, ethnicity, and religion. A divided world has been a world on FIRE and dripping with BLOOD. So, some folks have thought, maybe a more unified world might prevent the horrible mistakes of the past. Maybe international instutions like the UN and the War Crimes Court might help prevent wars and let conflicts be dealt with by conversing and not killing. Whats so wrong with that? Has the other option worked any better? I dont see how a more divided planet is any better then a more united world. |
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| William Rea | Feb 22 2008, 12:16 PM Post #2 |
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Where do I start with such a complex question? The UN, like any other organisation, is only as strong as the membership wants it to be. Most member states talk eloquently about grand aspirations but in practice the vast majority of their diplomatic effort at the UN goes into skewing and curtailing policy to suit their own national purposes. The veto held by the founding countries in the Security Council is a major problem, as is the make up of the Security Council itself. Until the veto is taken from the cold dead hands of the major powers the UN will remain impotent. Currently it only acts when an issue becomes so important to the national interest of the most powerful groups that they are prepared to offer substantial rewards for co-operation. Edited by William Rea, Feb 22 2008, 12:17 PM.
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| Roxdog | Feb 22 2008, 02:22 PM Post #3 |
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Ummm, because they are the brainchildren of, and are then funded and steered by the very people that you claim are the enemy. Is this a joke?
Thanks to the very same elitists and mentality that created the UN. Is this a joke?
They've done NOTHING thus far except make things worse...Is this a joke?
Um, whats wrong is that your fantasies dont translate into reality.
People minding their own business and solving THEIR OWN problem before trying to save the world isn't dividing the planet. The people that own the UN own the entities that "divide the planet" and they use the UN as their phoney front group to dupe people like you into thinking they are a good thing...Is this a joke? Man, you REALLY are COMPLETELY clueless... 1. Grab guns 2. Push eugenics 3. Promote global government Do you know where all the elites celebrated the birth of the UN? BOHEMIAN F^CKING GROVE. http://www.nps.gov/muwo/historyculture/stories.htm Is this a joke? Edited by Roxdog, Feb 22 2008, 02:23 PM.
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| arbor | Feb 22 2008, 06:24 PM Post #4 |
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You need to STOP attacking me. This was an honest topic looking for open, honest, and RESPECTFUL debate. Edited by arbor, Feb 22 2008, 06:35 PM.
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| William Rea | Feb 22 2008, 06:34 PM Post #5 |
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I tend to agree with arbor that this was uncalled for. The OP was a legitimate if Utopian proposition. Edited by William Rea, Feb 22 2008, 06:35 PM.
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| Roxdog | Feb 22 2008, 06:49 PM Post #6 |
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You need to stop attacking humanity and pimping global government.
You don't know the meaning of the word respect. No debate is needed to see how stupid of a concept this is. |
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| Roxdog | Feb 22 2008, 06:52 PM Post #7 |
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It is an utterly ridiculous pipedream and promoting it is promoting tyranny. These brands of Marxist "truthers" are a cancer to the movement... |
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| arbor | Feb 22 2008, 06:58 PM Post #8 |
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If you find it SOO STUPID...then dont respond to it!!!!!!! |
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| blarney fife | Feb 22 2008, 07:01 PM Post #9 |
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I would tend to agree that a united world is not an inherently bad thing. Unfortunately, it implies that first there be unity of thought, but there are about 6 billion perspectives on the planet that defy that prospect from the outset. Look at this forum of some 330 people as a microcosm of the world, half of which are diametrically opposed to the others beliefs about religion, politics, energy, abortion, gun control, the events of 9/11 and the need for a new investigation, a sense there will be true justice for all, poverty, health care, the human need for power over others, resources, the environment, science...you name it. Until a group like the UN can prove that it exists for the benefit of all mankind, which it has proven to be a miserable failure at in its 60 odd years in business, the dream of a world with a united purpose will remain just that...a dream. Edited by blarney fife, Feb 22 2008, 07:06 PM.
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| Roxdog | Feb 22 2008, 07:08 PM Post #10 |
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Stupidity must be opposed. Mistakes must be corrected. |
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| William Rea | Feb 22 2008, 07:10 PM Post #11 |
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So you believe in a form of anarchic utopia? |
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| arbor | Feb 22 2008, 07:14 PM Post #12 |
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Yes. If we get rid of all beauracracy, all governmant institutions, all systems of society, mankind will live in peace and harmony.  We have tried a world without international institutions to deal with conflict and disagreemants for 4,000 years. Its been a miserable failure. Perhaps we should try something..new. Or we could just have another thousand years of blood and tears. Edited by arbor, Feb 22 2008, 07:16 PM.
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| Roxdog | Feb 22 2008, 07:18 PM Post #13 |
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Funny, how I can describe how ridiculous your childish assertions are pretty quickly, easily and concisely but you can't touch mine without making up bold faced lies. Hilarious.
Right, these conflicts are a direct result of people with the exact same mindset and world-view as you. What do you think about JD Rockefeller bankrolling the UN? I guess he's really a hero for humanity, huh? Edited by Roxdog, Feb 22 2008, 07:20 PM.
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| William Rea | Feb 22 2008, 07:19 PM Post #14 |
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I hear you but, Roxdog's perspective is proving far more intruiging at the moment! |
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| William Rea | Feb 22 2008, 07:22 PM Post #15 |
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I'm trying to figure out how these organisations that consist of predominantly Capitalist powers are planning to impose a Socialist world on you? |
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| arbor | Feb 22 2008, 07:22 PM Post #16 |
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I wouldnt know, I cant read his posts. Im blocking him because he cares more about insulting me then debating the issue. Its what someone does when they dont have anything constructive to say. I dont want a borderless superstate spanning from Chile to Alaska, but we do need strong institutions that just might help prevent nations from going to war. That is unless, you like war. |
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| Roxdog | Feb 22 2008, 07:29 PM Post #17 |
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Um, are you serious? Funny, many of these "capitalists" are the very same people that essentially created and promoted the idea of "socialism" at the turn of the century. Keep in mind, these are largely terms created to distract you. There is no "capitalist" vs "socialist" just like there is no "left" vs right". These are phoney paradigms. Besides, what is more "capitalist" than consolidating wealth via Marxism/socialism so in the end, the state controls everything, AND YOU CONTROL THE STATE. That seems to be a pretty accurate assessment of what is happening now. Corporations (so called capitalism) and the State (socialism) are teaming up AGAINST THE PEOPLE. That is the actual paradigm.
You wouldn't know either way because you are not smart enough to understand. You deserve to be insulted.
People like you that think up (see: parrot) all this crap are the ones that creat all the wars. You LOVE war, you just can't admit it.... |
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| William Rea | Feb 22 2008, 07:41 PM Post #18 |
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OK, so in your Utopia what you are actually against is the accumulation of wealth and power in the hands of an elite. So why are you using phrases like "And I'd rather live in anarchy then the socialist tyranny that you espouse and promote..."? Socialism has nothing to do with the accumulation of power and wealth in the hands of an elite. |
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| Roxdog | Feb 22 2008, 07:56 PM Post #19 |
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Stop it. I never used the word "Utopia". My world view is rooted firmly in the fact that I know none will ever exist.
Because that is how i feel and I think most intelligent people would agree with me.
Um, yes, that is exactly what it is...for the elite, by the elite. Unless you are a duped cheerleader of it, it isn't hard to understand with just a minimal amount of research. I gave you a taste in my post above but you seemed to have ignored it. If the paradigm we live in is "Capitalist vs Socialist" than why do the people with the most capital FUND Socialism/communism? Socialism is about funneling wealth to the elite using The State as its enforcer. This is sad, but it is fact... If you really want to get what Im talking about trying watching this: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=449294564876413449 |
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| William Rea | Feb 22 2008, 08:10 PM Post #20 |
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I'll rephrase it... What you are actually against is the accumulation of wealth and power in the hands of an elite? Maybe you can answer that with a simple yes or no. I'll ask a direct question... Does this ruling elite happen to be Jewish? |
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| arbor | Feb 22 2008, 08:59 PM Post #21 |
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capitalists trying to impose a socialist new world order. hitler shared these wacky ideas. |
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| William Rea | Feb 23 2008, 09:17 AM Post #22 |
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Roxdog, I don't completely understand what you are trying to convince us of and your attitude is not conducive to making me want to listen. Why don't you tone it down a couple of notches so we can all have a good discussion about this. |
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| SPreston | Feb 23 2008, 11:01 AM Post #23 |
Patriotic American
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Perhaps you can answer that for yourself. For the past 7 years, we here in America have been ruled by Trotskyites who claim to be conservatives and call themselves NeoCONs. But their fiscal policies and their warmongering and their bullying and their lying make them seem far more ultra-liberal or ultra-socialist than conservative. We have endured their warmongering and their attacks against OUR Constitution and OUR Bill of Rights and watched while OUR people have been trampled over in the Trotskyite zeal of awarding high profits to international corporations at the expense of taxpayers. They have successfully carried out a massive internal attack against America using our own military forces against us, while most of America still slumbers. They prepare massive concentration camps for us which worked so well for them in the old Bolshevik Soviet Union (Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn-as many as 60 million dead rich farmer Kulak class of Russian). Yet America still slumbers, mesmerized by their own complacence and their boob tubes. Capitalism and socialism in America is an immense shellgame with the same billionaire elitists financing both sides. The totally CORRUPT DemoPublican Party which we Americans are stuck with is owned lock stock and barrel by these same billionaire elitists. The totally CORRUPT US Mainstream Media which we Americans are stuck with is owned lock stock and barrel by these same billionaire elitists. Our election system is a joke with the billionaire elitists controlling the counting of the votes. The Environmental groups are merely lobbyists for the Oil and Banking Internationalists, pretending to work against them and are paid by these same billionaire elitists. They form exclusive clubs with grand titles such as Club of Rome or Illuminati or the Bilderbergers or the Trilateral Commission or the Council of Foreign Relations or the New World Order and meet in their Californian resort The Bohemian Grove on The Russian River to worship before their god Molech and burn children in his fires. That is also where Bush and Kerry and their fellow Skull & Bones satanists also meet for their blood sacrifices. However, they are doomed to failure, consumed by their own greed. Unfortunately we Americans will likely go down with them. 
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| William Rea | Feb 23 2008, 11:29 AM Post #24 |
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Roxdog and SPreston, it's a simple question, a yes or no will do Are you against the accumulation of wealth and power in the hands of an elite? You have both intimated that you believe there is a Trotskyist/Socialist conspiracy while at the same time saying there is essentially no difference between left and right because the elite control everything anyway. This is a contradiction. Another simple question, a yes or no answer will do. In your opinion is this elite Jewish? |
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| JFK | Feb 23 2008, 11:49 AM Post #25 |
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I know you did not ask me, but my opinion is the leader, the head honcho, is publicly Roman Catholic. The majority of his underlings are Zionist, so yes that means that the majority are also masquarading as being Jewish when in fact they are not. |
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