| Viewing Single Post From: The Myth of the JREF $$ Challenge | |
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| 22205 | Mar 10 2008, 06:40 AM |
Arlingtonian
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im curious, who did that? this is posted in the lounge and the OP (nor the posters) ever made any Randi/9-11 related allusions and/or assertions. its a little weird how your mind made that connection even though such a notion was never stated (NOR inferred) in this thread. you seperate yourself from "them", yet you are inserting an adversarial divide between said groups with yourself clearly on "their" side instead of a neutral position. a neutral mind wouldnt have inserted and then defended a perceived (but non-existant) allusion. i ask that you please re-examine your understanding of your position to be more aware of your bias (or of the OP) so that you dont mistakenly turn this into a thread about JREFERS and 9/11. from what i gathered this thread was about Randi and his non-911-related "challenge".
i agree with you that when it comes to exposing "psychics" who happen to be frauds, randi seems to have done a good job. i admit i only have a superficial understanding of randi's opponents (so im no expert on the man), but reading the above text would seem to indicate that Randi has made more than a few enemies, when it comes to non 911 related areas of skepticism or debunking. so the above served as some insight in to the world of Randi, EVEN THO the above also had a transparent bias, as well as some shortcomings (evidence-wise) in stating a more compelling case in some instances. none the less, certain (negative/critical) characterizations of randi's methods above do in fact seem familiar from a 911 debate perspective. i doubt that the 911-focused "debunkers" spend much time worried about the para-peri normal, nor that they study randi's methods much. yet strangely, there is some common denominator there between their ways of "attacking" the truth and the above methods Randi stands accused of. BUT that topic is better suited for the "skeptic's tactics" thread... what would fit here however, with specific regard to your "mis-reading" of this thread, is that Randi is strangely silent from any 911 debunking. although his site has somehow become home to the 9/11 skeptics, Randi himself has yet to show up in the forums with anything to add. wether it be support or actual theories or debunkments, James Randi seems to me to be keeping a calculated distance from those who have in our ("truther") eyes, tainted his name. JREF is synonymous around here with obfuscation and circular logic. i guess we couldnt (as "truthers") expect Randi to disallow or outright denounce the 911-debunking-faction of the JREF society, but i see his distance as an indication that he himself (because he knows bullshit and lies when he sees it) doesnt want to commit to any OFFICIAL and/or DETAILED position on the specifics, for it may one day come back to bite him in the ass. now how does that relate to your "mis-reading" of this thread? it relates because Randi is NOT calling out the 9/11 truth movement. LIKEWISE, no one around here is calling out Randi from any 9/11 related direction. Randi seems to focus on "psychics" and snake-oil salesmen (like the water-detetcting psychics in australia), and to challenge anyone to prove the existence of "psi". so the focus of the article came from someone who has a bone to pick with Randi regarding the paranormal, not the JREF as known around here. likewise the poster (mynameis) never said word about 9/11 or JREFers. so its Randi the man, not the JREF conspiracy forum members, that the thread is about. inspite or despite the skeptics who have come to be known by his foundation's name, he himself has not come out with any manifesto or official "randi position" on 911. his tactics notwithstanding, until he does directly address 9/11 details, i doubt anyone here is going to want or be able to make him (james randi) directly relevant to 9/11 debate. *** as far as existence of actual people with para-peri/normal powers, my personal belief is that if anyone does possess it (and i believe they do - just in varying degrees), but that such people will keep it to themselves. especially those who could in fact produce "on-demand" results with repeated accuracy. they stay hidden, wether cuz of fear of being labled as freaks and outcasts or cuz of fear of exploitation by those seeking to harvest and manipulate their powers. it seems plausible, even logical to me, that people truly possessing such powers would calculate the negative consequences of outing themselves and therefore only display such powers when absolutely necessary, and always in secret or self-suppression. so even if Randi's million dollars doesnt ever go to anybody, that still isnt proof that people with "extraordinary" powers dont exist (just as much as it doesnt prove that they DO exist). Randi's challenge has little actual bearing on that which it infers it is qualified to ascertain. Randi himself knows the bigger equation, he knows the factors that would keep real "psychics" away (and i dont mean those claims of the article's author in the OP). Randi knows the counter-arguments to his own, he's that smart. he knows that there is the chance such powers are real, and actual people may possess them. he cant rule out that possibility and knows that just because they dont show up to take his test and arent signing up to be validated by way of his trademark, doesNt mean they dont exist (it just means they didnt come to take his test and that 1 million dollars isnt something that motivates them). but that trademark and that slogan, of the "randi million dollar challenge", is why (imo) he has set up the "challenge" in the first place. its isNt about finding actual people with powers, what it actually does is that it serves to strengthen Randi's public persona and lends credibility to his validity as a "skeptic". its a publicized stunt where he is "putting his money where his mouth is", except that the money is all for show (apparently). cuz when u read the fine print, the criteria set are meant to make success near impossible. so the "million dollar challenge" is more of a marketing ploy than anything else. im not sayin he is living off the million, no. he is exploiting the myth and enigma as any showman does to keep himself marketable. when you are a debunker by trade (or is he a magician/illusionist?) then you have to earn your living as a debunker, right? but is that easy? you look at the jref site and there are like over 50,000 debunkers, but only one Randi. its Randi alone that has figured out how to turn debunking into not just a profession, but a franchise, and he has done well at it. but to maintain his market-value, he has to keep his name current and his product fresh. so you have the open-running "million dollar challenge". just my 2cents... |
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| The Myth of the JREF $$ Challenge · The Lounge | |
6:48 PM Nov 27
