- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| Joan's Concerns About "The Left"; from the locked topic | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 8 2008, 05:31 PM (1,120 Views) | |
| duke09parent | Sep 8 2008, 05:31 PM Post #1 |
|
In the locked thread Joan asked how those of us who lived with the Hoax could even consider Obama/Biden. I have some answers, which I assume will likely not satisfy anyone.
No responsible Democrat has dishonored McCain or called his service or POW experience "schtick". IIRC both Obama and Biden have been at some pains to say they honor his service. I was moved by McCain's speech and a little surprised so many pundits didn't like it. But then I recalled they had heard it all before and they were looking for descriptions of policy initiatives. I thought those expectations were dumb--that wasn't what McCain needed in his acceptance speech, just as Obama did need some in his. McCain's conversion from flyboy to dedicated public servant is a compelling story and is a strong point for him. He would certainly put a stop to any waterboarding nonsense. But it is not enough for me. Wesley Clark was right, though impolitic. The service and his suffering does not in of itself qualify him to be president. There are lots of military leaders who have more executive and command experience than McCain does.
I don't believe in an entity of "The Left". I don't even believe in the entity of "the black community". There are divisions and gradations of thought in the left of center political spectrum and in the "black" population accross the country. So I do deny that "The Left" controls the MSM (by which I assume you mean the three original t.v. networks and some major newspapers like the NYT, Washington Post and the LA Times. But didn't the AP service do a better job with the Hoax. AP may get more newsprint circulation than the big three liberal papers do, don't they? I don't agree that even the MSM outlets described are radical left, though I agree they are certainly liberal. I keep my salt shaker close by when I read them. I had to go back and research on the Fairness Doctrine. Damn, another hour or so of time sucked away. It's a legitimate policy dispute. I agree with your position on it. Let's work to beat back the attempts to revive it. Young people, even those who pay attention to current events, don't read newspapers anymore. They read news sources on the internet. My son reads more Reuters and BBC than he does NYT, for sure. I do believe the MSM will start picking at Obama if he is elected, unless we suffer another big terrorist attack here at home. Then they will be pussycats vis a vis any administration, just like they were after 9/11 and the run up to the Iraq invasion.
I certainly think it is way premature to define the next Congress an "Obama Congress". I don't expect that herd of cats to be controlled by him. I really do think Obama would not be in favor of silencing blogs. I don't see him as a Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. I see him as someone who can make some progress on racial reconciliation. IIRC he was one of the few senators (were there any others?) who spoke out against the Hoax. The "hate speech" baloney will go on with or without Obama. It should be resisted. I am concerned about Obama's lingering with Trinity Church. Interesting that Oprah bailed on it years before. I agree with someone else who suggested his affiliation there was probably a political decision rather than a reflection of his religious or doctrinal beliefs. The fact that he's heard and understands the "Black Theology" crap gives him a chance to be heard when he says things like Black American youth should jettison the concern about sounding or acting white when getting an education. I think technology will continue to erode the news outlets coming over the "public" airways. Cable and satellite t.v. and radio should not be under governmental control. The efforts to make it otherwise will come from both sides of the aisle and should be resisted. I suspect there are many among you here who don't like McCain's restrictions on speech in McCain-Feingold, and I don't much like them either.
Another two hours of time sucked away by research. The first several google hits were conservatives complaining about Bauer's letters to the Justice Department. It took me awhile to find the letteers (my copies are on my home computer) adn to figure out what the difference was between 504(c)(3) and 504(c)(4). Looks to me like it could be a legitimate point over the proper qualifications of an organization's 504 (c)(4) status and the restrictions of their political activities and limits of contributions per person. It's hardball politics (like anyone expects the Bush Justice Department to do anything about it, even if the clams are true) and fair game. It's also fair game to criticize the Obama campaign for that tactic.
I didn't see the quotes, but if they are over political positions as you imply, I would oppose any such move and would criticize Biden for suggesting them. But if someone was corrupt and there is evidence of it, I wouldn't oppose bribery investigations and prosecutions. Stevens certainly has been a notorious pork barrel politician as has Robert Byrd. I also wouldn't oppose an attempt to bring contempt of congress citations against some members of the administration over the stonewalling of congressional subpoenas. I can't figure out another way of putting overbroad claims of executive privilege to the test, and that certainly would cut against an Obama administration, who I expect will also claim executive privilege overbroadly, especially if either house falls under Republican control. It's fine to be worried over these things, but I don't think the sky will fall if Obama is elected. Edited by duke09parent, Sep 8 2008, 05:35 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Sep 8 2008, 05:50 PM Post #2 |
|
Deleted User
|
.
I wonder what would be said if over 90% of the white community backed the white candidate. I have a strong suspicion that people would have no problems making statements about white voters and white people, white folks and the white community. No qualms whatsoever. And what they would be saying would be very strong, very certain, and extremely damning. . |
|
|
| Deleted User | Sep 8 2008, 05:56 PM Post #3 |
|
Deleted User
|
What you post sounds very reasonable. Way back in 2006 I might have thought the same way myself. When the Lacrosse case started, I kept waiting...waiting for the safeguards that were in place, waiting for the people of good conscience in positions of power to squash it, waiting for the reasonable among the Duke faculty "herd of cats" to speak up and stop the hideous defamation. I kept waiting for reasonable people to do reasonable things. But there were Agenda-istas in nursing uniforms, carrying badges,in the courtroom, in the classroom, in print and on TV. They had the power to suppress the truth. What I saw, the hate I saw, the injustice I saw, the insanity I saw, the cowardice I saw... has changed me profoundly. I think the sky could very possibly fall. There are not just "leanings" in the media...there are lies...there are suppressions...there is propaganda to promote a world view. Obama comes from the same cultural mindset as most faculty today, as the 88..with the added twist of a 20 year membership in a Black Nationalist church. Did you read the writings from that church? He took his children there, called the man "his mentor." His "speaking out" against the Hoax was limited to a reply to a Hooligan letter. Nothing was ever pursued more than that. Does that sound like a man moved by a false prosecution, moved to see justice done? He didn't even know it would go further than to that one recipient...for all we know, some staffer replied for him. I appreciate your time and effort. I wish I could say I agreed...but, no...DukeParent...I just got a little too up close and personal with the culture wars. If Obama is elected and the Dems control Congress, I expect to see many of the rights I hold dear in the direct line of fire. |
|
|
| Deleted User | Sep 8 2008, 06:26 PM Post #4 |
|
Deleted User
|
. In the past I've heard arguments (in person) in regard to there being no black community. I then noticed that those individuals would at times refer to black folks, black folk, and African-Americans but all the references were positive. Black folk are loving and soulful people; Black folks try to give back when they can; African-Americans know what it's like to struggle and to be held down. I determined, with these individuals anyway, that denying the black community was an attempt to avoid any criticism whatsoever of that sector of population. This is from my personal experience alone (as opposed to what I'm saying, or not saying, about anyone here). |
|
|
| Deleted User | Sep 8 2008, 06:56 PM Post #5 |
|
Deleted User
|
. I wholeheartedly disagree that the AP did a good job of reporting on this case. I think you said - a better job - but that's like saying a killer wasn't that bad because he cooked someone at 400 degrees instead of 450 degrees. Here's an AP article from April, 2006 - when so much was known. I could write pages of things that were understated or omitted, however, here's just a couple. Even after so much was known, including Crystal changing her story multiple times, her criminal record, her dancing when she said she couldn't move, her previous dubious claim of being held against her will and gang-raped by 3 men, and the fact she used and sold drugs at differing points in her life -- they still wouldn't use her name! The AP conveniently leaves out how Crystal's story changed specifically when the Rape charges were dropped - she said she couldn't be sure she was raped with a penis. A huge omission to be sure. Do they mention Seligmann's alibi? Do they mention the Lineups? Do they mention Gottlieb's descriptions? Do they mention how Crystal claimed one thing to DUMC and another thing totally to UNC Hospital? Do they mention her driver describing her activities leading up to the party essentially as prostitute? And renting hotel rooms and hosting clients and even walking the streets to locate men that were willing to pay to spend time alone with her in the hotel room? Did they ask why she had "drivers"? Did they mention that the Police affidavits were false according to the actual medical records? Did they mention that she claimed the other dancer participated in the Sexual assault at one point and that she told the Police she had $2000.00 in cash on her when she left the party? Did they mention that Nifong had strangled himself on National Television but the official medical records stated Crystal denied being choked or strangled? Did they mention that the official Police report written on the night of the Party by the Durham Police department has her telling a different story and lying repeatedly to the Police? Did they mention that at least one grand Juror had told reporters that if they had been more of the story they most likely wouldn't have indicted? Did they mention Gottlieb's problems with assault (they mentioned Finnerty's). Did they mention the persecution of a Defense witness (Elmo)? Did they mention that National black leaders and the NAACP had inserted themselves into the case? Did they mention the second dancer stated in public interviews that the accuser told her to go ahead and leave marks on her - that's what she wanted as she was feigning being unresponsive or unconscious? Did they mention that Nifong enjoyed overwhelming support in Durham's black community and won two elections even with so many problems in the case being publicly known? By Aaron Beard, Associated Press 4/11/2007 RALEIGH, N.C. — Three members of Duke University's lacrosse team could learn as early as Wednesday whether state prosecutors will drop the remaining charges accusing them of sexually assaulting a stripper at a team party more than a year ago. "I think it's likely that they will do that," said Wade Smith, an attorney for charged player Collin Finnerty. "We certainly hope that would be true. But until we hear it, we're not going to acknowledge that's the truth. We'll wait and see." No formal announcements have been scheduled by the state attorney general's office, which took over the case in January after the local district attorney was charged with several ethics violations tied to his handling of the sensational case. SPORTS SCOPE: ABC says charges to be dropped; books on the way But a person close to the case told the Associated Press on Tuesday that prosecutors in the attorney general's office, which for weeks has said it was close to completing its investigation, wrapped up additional interviews last week. The person, who spoke to the AP on a condition of anonymity because a formal announcement has not been made, said Finnerty, Reade Seligmann and David Evans could learn as soon as Wednesday whether the state plans to drop the charges or take the case to trial. A grand jury indicted the three players on charges of rape, kidnapping and sexual offense last spring after a woman told police she was assaulted at a March 2006 team party where she was hired to perform as a stripper. All three have steadfastly maintained their innocence, with Evans calling the allegations "fantastic lies." Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong dropped the rape charges in December after the accuser changed a key detail in her story. He recused himself a few weeks later after the state bar charged him with violating several rules of professional conduct. Among the ethics charges, Nifong is accused of withholding potentially exculpatory DNA evidence from the defense and lying to both the court and bar investigators. Nifong faces a June trial before the bar and could be disbarred if convicted. Nifong's recusal put the players' fate in the hands of North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper, who promised "a fresh and thorough review of the facts" when he took over the case in January. There were other signs Tuesday that an announcement from Cooper might come soon. Seligmann, 21, of Essex Fells, N.J., and his family arrived at Raleigh-Durham International Airport, and Smith said the Finnerty family was also expected to arrive later Tuesday from their home in Garden City, N.Y. "We are not going to have any expectations until we hear officially," Smith said. "When we get the word, we'll have the word." Evans' attorney, Joseph Cheshire, declined to comment when asked if his client was planning to be in Raleigh on Wednesday. While Evans, 24, of Bethesda, Md., graduated the day before he was indicted in May, Duke temporarily suspended sophomores Finnerty and Seligmann in the wake of their arrest. Finnerty, 20, was also convicted in July in an unrelated assault case in Washington, D.C., and sentenced to six months of probation. Finnerty and Seligmann were both invited to return to campus, but neither has accepted. John Danowski, the former coach at Hofstra who took over the Duke program last summer, has also said that both are welcome to continue their lacrosse careers with the Blue Devils. Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/lacrosse/2007-04-10-duke-lax_N.htm |
|
|
| Greg | Sep 8 2008, 07:01 PM Post #6 |
|
Tony, I know what you mean. Some folks deny that "the black community" is a monolith. When it suits their convenience anyway. When "the black community" acts as a monolith -- re-electing Nifong, for example. But other times, those same folks or people who share their political views, describe "the black community" the way you mentioned. The fact of the matter is that people who share attitudes in some areas will often share many other attitudes. Pro-choice people who buy into global warming will tend to support Gay marriage and AIDS research and some sort of national health care and oppose border security and the war in Iraq and basically will support the whole platform of democratic issues. It's just a fact. And when you add in a demographic like race ... it helps explain why an entire community, virtually unanimously, supported one of two nearly identical candidates. No significant difference between Hillary and Barack except gender ... and race. |
![]() |
|
| duke09parent | Sep 8 2008, 07:40 PM Post #7 |
|
There certainly is more evidence that black voters vote more as a block, particularly when the issues involve race. In the Batcave I challenged Michaels several times to tell me why a 90% rate of vote for Nifong from black precincts in the general election was not evidence of black racism in Durham. I cited the precinct study somebody did (here? Prof. Johnson?) showing the voting rates. He didn't challenge the study but claimed it was due to the failure of the Anybody but Nifong organization to go into those precincts and solicit votes and so many people voting straight Democratic tickets. If the pro-Nifong rate had been just 60% I could have bought those explanations, but not 90%. I read somewhere (maybe here) that polls among whites and blacks on Simpson's guilt were were something like 80% to 29%. That's pretty remarkable and pretty bad but still nearly a third didn't drink the koolaid. Are Thomas Sowell, Alan Keyes and Clarence Thomas, hell even Charles Barkley, part of the monolithic black community? Yesterday I played golf with a couple of other guys. On one hole, a 175 yard par three, I hit a shot right at the pin. It looked to hit on the front of the green and rolled a few feet past the the hole. One of my buddies asked how close I thought I was and I said about six feet. When we got to the green we could see my ball was about 20 feet away from the hole. When we were far away at the tee and looking from our straight-on perspective, it looked closer than it was. From your political perspective you see Obama and H. Clinton as indistinguishable except for race and gender. That says as much about the distance you are from them than it does how close the two candidates are. I hate being pigeon holed myself. I don't care about Gay marriage (they can have it if they want it, the same position as Barry Goldwater held), AIDS research is a good idea (you don't think it is?), I oppose national health care, I support border security, and I opposed the war in Iraq (though once there we can't just pull up and leave). I'm liberal on a lot of things, not so much on other things. I think there are a lot of people like me. Edited by duke09parent, Sep 8 2008, 07:41 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Sep 8 2008, 08:24 PM Post #8 |
|
Deleted User
|
I almost think we are talking about two different things here. Like you, my positions don't align perfectly with any party. I agree that is true on the Left. I can agree with almost all of your last paragraph...except I do support the War. What is different however is the willingness , as we saw in this case, for so many on the Left side of the culture wars to suppress, pervert, lie and/or enable any manner of injustice to promote what they see as a better world or as we call it..the "metanarrative." The culmination of that willingness manifested itself in the Duke Frame. I am not willing to lie, subvert the truth, and destroy lives to get my way on Roe or any other "cultural issue." I can't image being able to pull off something like this aided and abetted by folks of my political or cultural persausion. (The first hurdle being my husband who does not lie) WE SAW it. Yes, there were variables, but the bottom of the scale was enabling silence...as it will be if the Left controls our Government. Inertia and fear in the face of those in power demanding a LIe be validated. Remember Baker backing Crystal's "one story?" Years ago, I was the most ardent admirer of the NAACP. But to support this case, they put up the infamous "case description" and appointed a "case monitor" to agitate for a show trial. No other chapter stepped forward to criticize them. There was complete solidarity. Where was one good man? Cash is quite smart. It was evident he twigged to the truth early on..but he could not buck the power establishment. It was pitiful to watch a man's intellect in bondage. On Duke's campus, the Far Left professors took to every form of the media to push their agendas, their demands for new programs, new hires, new power. They suspended their intellects and used three innocent kids to promote Leftist "theology." The rest of faculty was stone cold silent, except for what...two? Why did so few speak? Why? Have you seen a similar manifestation of folks on the right dominating every avenue where the truth might come out and stifling that truth to push a false prosecution for political purposes of three college boys? I'm not talking about large debates over large issues, and "Bush Lied" etc. I'm talking about right down here, in your neighborhood, on your campus, your kid...a consortium of Left wing views...perhaps of different intent or volume...working together to frame three young men for a crime any idiot knew never happened. There was no evidence. Ever. This was all a manifestation of a push to confirm the metanarrative. Give me an equivalent example where right wing agendas aligned to frame innocent nonpolitical, young men? But to the Left, it COULD have happened, in their perverted minds..it SHOULD have happened to prove their world view correct. So they decided ..it DID happen. Despite all evidence and truth, they would DEMAND allegiance to the premise IT HAPPENED!!! Did everyone conspire...no. Some just stayed quiet and enabled it. Such is the power of the Left Wing theology in Durham/Duke. I'm talking about a town and University where Leftist views about the Culture Wars extended into Levicy's exam, Nifong's prosecution, the political push of the city for a trial, the outcry from the Leftist professors,,,the madness. Where is there an equivalent to that from the hospital to town hall to the courtroom to the classroom, of right wing agendaistas doing the same? |
|
|
| Deleted User | Sep 8 2008, 08:38 PM Post #9 |
|
Deleted User
|
From Eckstrand: "A community of one." 638. From this point forward, the City’s purposes coincided completely with those fixed for the University by the Chairman; what was “best for Duke” was also best for the City. Shortly thereafter, the City, Duke, and NCCU launched a media campaign, called “A Community of One.” It was designed to promote the image of the City, Duke, and NCCU all standing in solidarity against the white, “racist-rapists” on the lacrosse team. The media campaign culminated on the day of the first indictments with a large “Community of One” ad placed strategically in various newspapers. |
|
|
| Bill Anderson | Sep 8 2008, 08:54 PM Post #10 |
|
More like "Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Furher!" So-called "progressive" politics generally is built upon resentment of what other people have. You saw that in Durham, where Nifong and others managed to appeal to the resentments of the lacrosse players and demonize them. However, in order for it to work, you have to have people who are willing to put logic aside and accept these lies, and that is what we had in Durham. That is why I don't feel sorry for Durham and Duke now; the people wanted to be deceived, and then demanded a show trial, and as the case fell apart, they clung to the "something happened" mantra.
|
![]() |
|
| Texas Mom | Sep 8 2008, 08:57 PM Post #11 |
|
Joan, excellent explanations of why I am still here. Thank you. Tex |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Sep 8 2008, 09:13 PM Post #12 |
|
Deleted User
|
I do not think all Dems are the spawn of evil. Locally, I vote for some of them some of the time....to include state office. But I suspect that Obama's views are more in sync with the 88 (Harvard background, most liberal voting record in Senate)) the NCNAACP (Rev. Wright's church for 20 years), Levicy ( "born alive babies should not live to intrude on a woman's rights") I bet there are many in the Women's studies and AA studies programs and in Durham city council like Michelle Obama "has never been proud to be an American." think this is a "mean country" and find much to agree with her Princeton thesis. They saw a prostitute's drunken accusation against three white college boys as a tool to promote good social and community and campus changes. IMO the reason the Duke case was made to fade away..is that others might see it as I do...a harbinger of life under the righteous Left. |
|
|
| Greg | Sep 8 2008, 09:31 PM Post #13 |
|
Well, maybe just nearly monolithic. Sowell and Walter Williams and Alan Keyes are obviously outside the fold, I guess you might say. They're obviously not the only ones. But it's like what you said, there's more evidence of consistent voting patterns within that block than within other demographic groups. As far as AIDS research, the information I've seen suggests that we spend an inordinate amount of resources on researching drugs for AIDS, which, unlike prostate cancer, for example, is contracted almost 100% of the time from voluntary behavior and, therefore, avoidable. And I didn't realize Barry Goldwater ever offered an opinion on gay marriage. As far as being pigeon-holed, there was a controversy here a couple of decades ago about whether the local newspaper should identify the political party of a candidate in a non-partisan primary. There were those who made the "don't pigeon-hole me" argument. A very-leftist poli-sci professor of mine (at the time, I was pretty leftist myself) wrote a guest editorial in the local paper explaining how labels like democrat and republican actually distill a great deal of information into a small, easily digested symbol. There will obviously be some variation. Not every single democrat will believe exactly what the next democrat believes. But there's a pretty dependable consistency. And though she had the research to back it up and I don't, I would bet that the more liberal one's views on one issue, the more predictable one's stand on a whole host of other issues. The "take back the night" marchers probably align politically with Amanda Marcotte on pretty much every major political issue. |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Sep 8 2008, 09:46 PM Post #14 |
|
Deleted User
|
Duke09: Unlike Joan, I do not think that an Obama presidency would destroy the US as a free country. I am reasonably sure that he would ATTEMPT to destroy it, but I expect we wouldl survive. Some freedoms would (probably) be lost; he might manage to victimize a few (perhaps, quite a few) innocent people - remember, they almost managed to do it in Durham, without Obama in the White House! But here I would like to demonstrate to you how successful the Left has been in corrupting the public discourse - even among us. I will use your own words (please believe me, I do not for a second doubt your good faith). You say "AIDS research is a good idea (you don't think it is?)" - and these are terrible words, coming from an honest person like yourself (???!!!) - Let me explain. The amount of money expended on AIDS research (on the per case basis) is enormous - many times greater than on cancer, or coronary desease, or almost anything else. And (at least in the US) the epidemic is pretty much under control, the number of cases is not enormous... and nothing seems to be enough. Keep in mind, the amount of resourses the medical research establishment can effectively use is limited - unless we borrow researchers from other areas - where (perhaps) many more people are affected. And there is the small matter of retraining, retooling, etc. And the demands for more money for the AIDS research never end... So of course, AIDS research is a good idea. However, it is not obvious that MORE AIDS RESEARCH MONEY NOW is a good idea. And when a reasonable, intelligent person like yourself mentions AIDS research in the context of a political discussion - the success of the left-wing propaganda machine is more or less complete! Let me finish with a horror story. A friend of mine is a professor at a medical school. About 10 years ago, he had a student - Black, female, and fairly competent. When she was leaving, she thanked him for being a great teacher and a wonderful person. Then she added that she was very grateful to him, and her gratitude was in no way reduced by her knowledge that Jews had designed AIDs in order to exterminate the Black race (the guy is Jewish, and has a Jewish-sounding last name). |
|
|
| Bill Anderson | Sep 8 2008, 10:31 PM Post #15 |
|
|
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · LIESTOPPERS UNDERGROUND · Next Topic » |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2







7:23 PM Jul 10