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CNN Campbell Brown
Topic Started: Sep 3 2008, 10:40 AM (3,530 Views)
Jezebelle

duke09parent
Sep 4 2008, 03:54 PM
Jezebelle
Sep 4 2008, 03:22 PM
Can you point to the sections in the codified Patriot Act that establish police state features that differ from previous law? How would Homeland Security be able to operate in ways contravened by the PA or other law?
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/resources/17343res20031114.html
So you have not done your own analysis. You accept without question the ACLU's spin of the PA.

Okay.
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duke09parent

I told myself I wasn't going to get sucked into this black hole of productive time, again.

Jez, I had added this to my earlier ACLU post but you clipped me faster than I could:

I forgot to mention the FISA Amendment Act on removing judicial oversight on "foreign" surveillance: http://www.aclu.org/safefree/spying/fisa.html

I'll happily do the research and write a memo for you if you want to pay a retainer to cover about 10 hours of billable time.

I perceive your purpose is to attack and not understand. I'm not going to devote a lot of time to defending against your attacks if I can discipline myself.

I'm retiring from the field for awhile. I really have been neglecting my work. Joan, I'll give your questions more thought and try to reply later.
Edited by duke09parent, Sep 4 2008, 04:27 PM.
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duke09parent
Sep 4 2008, 04:22 PM
I told myself I wasn't going to get sucked into this black hole of productive time, again.

I'm retiring from the field for awhile. I really have been neglecting my work. Joan, I'll give your questions more thought and try to reply later.
Thanks...I know what you mean about the "Black Hole"

My kitchen at the moment is filled with smoke. Don't cook squash and blog, friends.
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Jezebelle

chatham
Sep 4 2008, 04:03 PM
duke09parent
Sep 3 2008, 04:06 PM

I disagree with her and McCAin on their anti-choice position on abortion and her abstinence-only position on sex education.
I would hope the above comment would not sway anyone in one direction or another about voting for a strong candidate. As unstable as the world is today, and tomorrow, it is almost laughable to consider abortion and sex education issues as important when one side of the debate has already promised to reduce our ability to defend ourselves now and reduce research funding and discovery so we are unable to defend ourselves in the future.
It's only important because a powerful Dem constituency, the abortion industry, wants to continue the pretension that all women favor Roe and that it's very important to them. Polls and studies show that the right to an abortion is high on the "important" list of only 3% of women.
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Jezebelle

joan foster
Sep 4 2008, 04:26 PM
duke09parent
Sep 4 2008, 04:22 PM
I told myself I wasn't going to get sucked into this black hole of productive time, again.

I'm retiring from the field for awhile. I really have been neglecting my work. Joan, I'll give your questions more thought and try to reply later.
Thanks...I know what you mean about the "Black Hole"

My kitchen at the moment is filled with smoke. Don't cook squash and blog, friends.
I did that the other night. The pan wasn't non-stick. I had to soak it for 2 days and then take steel wool to it. I won't even tell you what the squash looked and smelled like. :laughin:
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chatham
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USA PATRIOT Act (11/14/2003)

Just 45 days after the September 11 attacks, with virtually no debate, Congress passed the USA PATRIOT Act. There are significant flaws in the Patriot Act, flaws that threaten your fundamental freedoms by giving the government the power to access to your medical records, tax records, information about the books you buy or borrow without probable cause, and the power to break into your home and conduct secret searches without telling you for weeks, months, or indefinitely.

I thought the government could already access my med records. Didnt nifong have CGM's?
I ghought i sent mytax records to the government. SHoot if I make a mistake in my federal tax how does the state end up sending my a letter that I owe them money also?
Everything I buy now is put on a computer. Does one really believe that when a credit card is swiped that your name address and all your personal information is not there going into cyber land for anyone to look at anytime they want with a supeana? Harris Teeter (local grocery store) tells me weekly what my favorite foods are that are on sale this week.
And someone breaking into my home? SHoot that just happened and no one told me that was happening.

I guess what I am saying is the government just put into writing what they knew they could do already. Putting it in writing is the governments way of saying to the public, you know what we can do now, be good little citizens or we will come after you. Yep, its the governments contract in writing letting us all know what the rules are. Just like any other contract.
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Why do I feel this is another example of "saying one thing in Scranton...and something else in San Francisco."

Which Obama do we believe...which does the Left believe? Or do they just assume like Rev. Wright, that he's just saying what he needs to say.(Wink! Wink!) Then, comes the real Obama in January and ...LOOK OUT!

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/04/obama-surge-succeeded-beyond-wildest-dreams/


he troop surge in Iraq has been more successful than anyone could have imagined, Barack Obama conceded Thursday in his first-ever interview on FOX News’ “The O’Reilly Factor.”

As recently as July, the Democratic presidential candidate declined to rate the surge a success, but said it had helped reduce violence in the country. On Thursday, Obama acknowledged the 2007 increase in U.S. troops has benefited the Iraqi people.

“I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated,” Obama said while refusing to retract his initial opposition to the surge. “I’ve already said it’s succeeded beyond our wildest dreams.”

Watch Barack Obama’s interview with Bill O’Reilly at 8 p.m. ET Thursday on FOX News Channel.

However, he added, the country has not had enough “political reconciliation” and Iraqis still have not taken responsibility for their country.

Speaking on other national security matters, Obama said he would not take military action off the table in dealing with Iran, but diplomacy and sanctions can’t be overlooked.

The Islamic republic is a “major threat” and it would be “unacceptable” for the rogue nation to develop a nuclear weapon, he said.

“It is unacceptable for Iran to possess a nuclear weapon, it would be a game changer,” Obama said. “It’s sufficient to say I would not take military action off the table and that I will never hesitate to use our military force in order to protect the homeland and the United States’ interests.”

But Obama also warned against the current U.S. administration lumping radical Islamic groups together.

“They have fueled a whole host of terrorist organizations,” Obama said of Iran, but “we have to have the ability to distinguish between groups. … They may not all be part and parcel of the same ideology.”

Obama sat down with O’Reilly in York, Pa., after holding a discussion on the economy with voters nearby. The Illinois senator has been campaigning in battleground states since accepting the Democratic presidential nomination last Thursday at his party’s convention in Denver.

Obama said he “absolutely” believes the United States is fighting a War on Terror, with the enemy being, “Al Qaeda, the Taliban, a whole host of networks that are bent on attacking America, who have a distorted ideology, who have perverted the faith of Islam.”

He repeated his campaign’s foreign policy position that Afghanistan must become the “central front” in the War on Terror.

Obama was first asked to come on “The O’Reilly Factor” in early 2007. The interview will air in three more parts after Thursday, from Monday through Wednesday next week.
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chatham
Sep 4 2008, 04:31 PM
USA PATRIOT Act (11/14/2003)

Just 45 days after the September 11 attacks, with virtually no debate, Congress passed the USA PATRIOT Act. There are significant flaws in the Patriot Act, flaws that threaten your fundamental freedoms by giving the government the power to access to your medical records, tax records, information about the books you buy or borrow without probable cause, and the power to break into your home and conduct secret searches without telling you for weeks, months, or indefinitely.

I thought the government could already access my med records. Didnt nifong have CGM's?
I ghought i sent mytax records to the government. SHoot if I make a mistake in my federal tax how does the state end up sending my a letter that I owe them money also?
Everything I buy now is put on a computer. Does one really believe that when a credit card is swiped that your name address and all your personal information is not there going into cyber land for anyone to look at anytime they want with a supeana? Harris Teeter (local grocery store) tells me weekly what my favorite foods are that are on sale this week.
And someone breaking into my home? SHoot that just happened and no one told me that was happening.

I guess what I am saying is the government just put into writing what they knew they could do already. Putting it in writing is the governments way of saying to the public, you know what we can do now, be good little citizens or we will come after you. Yep, its the governments contract in writing letting us all know what the rules are. Just like any other contract.
Excellent post.

Didn't they go in the Dorm rooms..get the key card info with no subpoeana (sp)

Reade Seligmann wasn't exactly Mohammed Atta.
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joan foster
Sep 4 2008, 04:34 PM
Why do I feel this is another example of "saying one thing in Scranton...and something else in San Francisco."

Which Obama do we believe...which does the Left believe? Or do they just assume like Rev. Wright, that he's just saying what he needs to say.(Wink! Wink!) Then, comes the real Obama in January and ...LOOK OUT!

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/04/obama-surge-succeeded-beyond-wildest-dreams/


he troop surge in Iraq has been more successful than anyone could have imagined, Barack Obama conceded Thursday in his first-ever interview on FOX News’ “The O’Reilly Factor.”

As recently as July, the Democratic presidential candidate declined to rate the surge a success, but said it had helped reduce violence in the country. On Thursday, Obama acknowledged the 2007 increase in U.S. troops has benefited the Iraqi people.

“I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated,” Obama said while refusing to retract his initial opposition to the surge. “I’ve already said it’s succeeded beyond our wildest dreams.”

Watch Barack Obama’s interview with Bill O’Reilly at 8 p.m. ET Thursday on FOX News Channel.

However, he added, the country has not had enough “political reconciliation” and Iraqis still have not taken responsibility for their country.

Speaking on other national security matters, Obama said he would not take military action off the table in dealing with Iran, but diplomacy and sanctions can’t be overlooked.

The Islamic republic is a “major threat” and it would be “unacceptable” for the rogue nation to develop a nuclear weapon, he said.

“It is unacceptable for Iran to possess a nuclear weapon, it would be a game changer,” Obama said. “It’s sufficient to say I would not take military action off the table and that I will never hesitate to use our military force in order to protect the homeland and the United States’ interests.”

But Obama also warned against the current U.S. administration lumping radical Islamic groups together.

“They have fueled a whole host of terrorist organizations,” Obama said of Iran, but “we have to have the ability to distinguish between groups. … They may not all be part and parcel of the same ideology.”

Obama sat down with O’Reilly in York, Pa., after holding a discussion on the economy with voters nearby. The Illinois senator has been campaigning in battleground states since accepting the Democratic presidential nomination last Thursday at his party’s convention in Denver.

Obama said he “absolutely” believes the United States is fighting a War on Terror, with the enemy being, “Al Qaeda, the Taliban, a whole host of networks that are bent on attacking America, who have a distorted ideology, who have perverted the faith of Islam.”

He repeated his campaign’s foreign policy position that Afghanistan must become the “central front” in the War on Terror.

Obama was first asked to come on “The O’Reilly Factor” in early 2007. The interview will air in three more parts after Thursday, from Monday through Wednesday next week.
Do they anti-war demonstraters tomorrow know that Obama feels it is "unacceptable " for Iran to have a nuclear weapon?

Well, they WANT one.

So he sends Biden there to schmooze them.

What if they thumb their nose like Saddam.

What then?

What will Obama do?

What if the U.N. shrugs.

Oops, I guess they get to make one then.

But Obama says it's "unacceptable."

Yawn.

What's that mushroom cloud where NYC used to be?
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Bill Anderson
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In discussing the Patriot Act, there are a few things to remember, some of them ironic. Much of the act, believe it or not, was recycled material that Janet Reno and Bill Clinton tried to push (unsuccessfully) through a Republican Congress. As for Homeland Security, I remember that Howard Dean was bragging in 2004 that the Democrats were responsible for the creation of that horrid thing, and that the Democrats also should be taking credit for the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), better known as Thousands Standing Around.

In the wake of the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, the Clinton Administration increased its domestic surveillance and put out a lot of rhetoric demonizing people who believed the government should be less intrusive.

Now, back to the Patriot Act. A congressman who now regrets voting for it told me that the pressure to pass it was enormous, and that they were voting on portions that hardly any of them even had read. (This is not the first time that happened. Much of the original New Deal legislation was passed, with Congress even voting on bills that were not complete.)

I always will be wary of legislation that increases the power of the central government and empowers federal prosecutors. Most federal prosecutors are not good people; they are not much different than Michael Nifong, and there are a lot of people in federal prison now who were railroaded just as much as Nifong tried to railroad the kids from Duke.

Specifically, the law allows for self-written search warrants. Our forefathers rebelled against Great Britain in large part because the crown authorized self-written warrants. It is ironic that a law dubbed "Patriot" does the very thing that the patriots of 1775 despised, and does it in their names.

Yes, this is a long, rambling post, but it contains a lot of thoughts. The Blog Hooligans already know I am a pretty hardcore libertarian and always will remain so. I don't believe that the laws and policies that have increased the power of the federal police have made us safer, at least from terrorists. I know that they have made us less safe in our homes because the police have more power than ever to invade our "castles," and arrest us (and even shoot our dogs).

But I do not think this loss of liberty is a Democratic or Republican thing. Obama has not spoken a word about the loss of liberty at home, and I am not surprised. After all, he is not worried about our loss of liberty; he wants desperately to be able to control that apparatus to promote his own agendas. And the Republicans have given carte blanche to law enforcement, and, as we saw in the Duke case, when those who enforce the law are not held to account, they will be lawbreakers.

:bill:
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Bill Anderson
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There is another aspect that I think should be discussed, and that is the politicization of all of life. For example, the Democrats insisted that only Politically Correct food be made available at their recent convention, and we saw things like the banning of plastic water bottles and the like.

Sex already is horribly politicized, and with public schools handing out condoms and giving instructions on how kids can have better oral sex and the like, it does not get much more political than that. The list goes on and on. (And who said that the left does not want government "in your bedroom"? Heck, they even want the government there to show you how to perform sexually.)

Schoolchildren are being hounded by the obesity police, and we have government medical people in Oregon telling a man that he could not have his cancer treated but at least the government would give him poison so he could kill himself.

Once upon a time, Americans could live their lives without having to deal much with government. Today, it is impossible for us to live without being hounded by someone employed by the state telling us that we have to live according to the rules and policies that the "anointed elite" have decided for us.

:bill:
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joan foster
Sep 4 2008, 03:56 PM
This post:

The Left controls the MSM. Who, after the Duke Frame and the Palin family scourging denies that? They cannot be trusted to not enable a State run by their Leftist comrades in arms. They cannot be counted on to bring Truth to power if the power is the Leftist model they are pushing.

So there would be no MSM to challenge a leftist Obama government.

They have already talked about pushing through the Fairness Doctrine. How far will they take this? Radio, yes. Okay, another avenue of dissention falls.

No MSM, no radio.

What about the Internet? Can an Obama Congress redefine "hate speech" to include the objections we have raised here to say, the NCNAACP "Case Description?" Why not?

Do you doubt if they might have silenced the blogs during the Dan Rather fiasco or the Duke Frame...do you think REALLY they would NOT have?

A commentator asks questions about the Obama/Ayers connection and the Campaign wants the Justice Dept invoved?

This does not trouble you?

Biden is quoted as saying there may well be trials for the Bush administration. Like some banana repiblic, we will begin jailing oppositional leaders...till citizens fear opposing the Ruling Faction at all. Do you hate Bush enough to start that as a model in the U.S.?

http://wjno.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=244038&article=4190828

And you are angry at Homeland Security? About loss of privacy and rights? What is the potential here?

Tell me where I'm wrong , and assure me, with examples please , that WHAT I SAW in Durham and N.C....I need not f
Duke09Parent..you are an articulate poster and a good sport for engaging. I'm going to bump this in hopes you will take a shot at my questions/concerns. Any other Obama voters please jump in.

I would like to understand.
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Anyone show up while I was gone? :think:
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Doesn't anyone who is voting for Obama want to have a moderate discussion of the issues?
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Jezebelle

Joan, I guess your only audience now is crickets. My question to them would be whose opinion are they really chirping?
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