| Healthcare Bill Part III; Obamacare | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 3 2014, 02:20 PM (48,629 Views) | |
| kbp | Nov 7 2014, 08:08 AM Post #1141 |
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The leftist fact checkers had rewrote his claim of $2500 premium savings each year to give him a couple qualified Pinocchio's, making it look like we misunderstand the plain text of Barry's statements! The fact checker's response then didn't even earn a half-truth rating it was such BS, they simply changed the words for him. Now Barry is inferring he gave us healthcare cost savings in an effort to shift which direction we should look for the savings he promised. Even those same fact checkers can't pass up on the lie covering up the previous lie. Edited by kbp, Nov 7 2014, 08:09 AM.
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| kbp | Nov 7 2014, 09:30 AM Post #1142 |
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Kaiser, hard at it!
![]() The Medicaid and Obamacare changes took effect (started) January 1, 2014. |
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| kbp | Nov 7 2014, 09:58 AM Post #1143 |
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The piece meal change approach, combined with revised Medicaid expansion, leaves the door open to Obamacare always being a law. The hope then is that the taxing structure will fail under the changes and/or the courts will make its survival difficult. Under the law, the federal government offers large financial incentives to states that agree to provide... ...through subsidies to eligible residents in states which establish an exchange! ![]() Depending on which side of their mouth they are speaking out of, the liberal commentators are busy as he!! jumping the fence back and forth on whether or not it could be the intent of Congress to hand out FREE MONEY - financial incentives - to get States to cooperate in doing what the federal government should not be able to do. . Edited by kbp, Nov 7 2014, 10:07 AM.
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| kbp | Nov 7 2014, 10:41 AM Post #1144 |
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The profits at Humana appear to differ from a couple other large insurers in the exchange. The increases in customer base leaves about 1 million new after deducting the new Medicare Advantage increase. I'm not sure how much of that is Exchange customers, but I'm guessing the vast majority. The "benefits cost surge" indicates they must have got a lot of sick Obamacare customers. Now I wonder how much that will cost the taxpayers through the 3-R's??? |
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| Baldo | Nov 7 2014, 12:57 PM Post #1145 |
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Reuters Politics @ReutersPolitics 1m1 minute ago BREAKING: Supreme Court agrees to hear conservative challenge to key Obamacare health insurance subsidies |
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| Baldo | Nov 7 2014, 01:02 PM Post #1146 |
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Justices to hear health law subsidies challenge WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court has agreed to hear a new challenge to President Barack Obama's health care law. The justices on Friday say they will decide whether the law authorizes subsidies that help millions of low- and middle-income people afford their health insurance premiums. A federal appeals court upheld Internal Revenue Service regulations that allow health-insurance tax credits under the Affordable Care Act for consumers in all 50 states. Opponents argue that most of the subsidies are illegal. The long-running political and legal campaign to overturn or limit the 2010 health overhaul will be making its second appearance at the Supreme Court. The justices upheld the heart of the law in a 5-4 decision in 2012 in which Chief Justice John Roberts provided the decisive vote. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SUPREME_COURT_HEALTH_OVERHAUL_SUBSIDIES?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-11-07-12-51-59 |
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| kbp | Nov 7 2014, 09:21 PM Post #1147 |
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I consider that to be extremely big. The Chevron case the IRS used as a tool to rewrite Obamacare is a two step process. Step 1 is find how to show the law is ambiguous, then Step 2 is find intent of Congress. The best they've shown in decisions finding it to be ambiguous looks like a circular method. The various processes in the law that could be in conflict meet explanations from the plaintiff's team that are logical, not at all absurd. So the defendants then want to form so sort of compounded interpretation of the entire laws intent based on the multiple processes almost ambiguous, which then requires one to consider the plain and clear text of sections 36b and 1311 to be absurd (or ignored, I guess, as the never explain it clearly). As for Step 2, which can only follow success in Step 1, they do not really have a great deal of evidence of Congressional intent for either side. Edited by kbp, Nov 7 2014, 09:23 PM.
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| kbp | Nov 7 2014, 11:06 PM Post #1148 |
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Tweet found at twitchy...
. Edited by kbp, Nov 7 2014, 11:09 PM.
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| kbp | Nov 7 2014, 11:20 PM Post #1149 |
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This guy argues that HHS should be able to pay subsidies! |
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| LTC8K6 | Nov 10 2014, 08:46 AM Post #1150 |
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Assistant to The Devil Himself
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http://twitchy.com/2014/11/09/such-a-sad-dishonest-little-hack-jonathan-chait-writes-that-the-gop-is-trying-to-kill-people/ ‘Such a sad, dishonest little hack.’ Jonathan Chait writes that the GOP is trying to ‘kill’ people |
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| Baldo | Nov 10 2014, 09:58 AM Post #1151 |
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Caught on Camera: Obamacare Architect Admits Deceiving Americans to Pass Law In a newly surfaced video, one of Obamacare’s architects admits a “lack of transparency” helped the Obama administration and congressional Democrats pass the Affordable Care Act. The conservative group American Commitment posted Jonathan Gruber’s remarks, reportedly from an Oct. 17, 2013, event, on YouTube. “Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage,” says the MIT economist who helped write Obamacare. “And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical for the thing to pass.” http://dailysignal.com/2014/11/09/caught-camera-obamacare-architect-admits-deceiving-americans-pass-law/ GRUBER: "Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G790p0LcgbI He admits it wouldn't have passed if they told the truth. The Republicans should run this over & over again on TV Edited by Baldo, Nov 10 2014, 10:00 AM.
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| Baldo | Nov 10 2014, 10:11 AM Post #1152 |
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This guy Gruber is quite a piece of work Jonathan Gruber: 'It Was Just a Mistake' An Obamacare architect explains a 2012 quote that's fueling critics Did the people who designed Obamacare intend to deprive millions of people of health insurance, just because officials in their states decided not to operate their own insurance marketplaces? A lawsuit making its way through the federal judiciary, and perhaps on its way to the Supreme Court, claims the answer is yes. And while every federal official and member of Congress who worked on crafting the law in 2009 and 2010 disagrees, now there’s a video from 2012 in which one of the law’s best known advocates and architects—MIT economist Jonathan Gruber—makes the same basic argument that the lawsuit does. Among those who say they are surprised by the statement is Gruber himself, whom I was able to reach by phone. "I honestly don’t remember why I said that," he said, attempting to reconstruct what he might have been thinking at the time. "I was speaking off-the-cuff. It was just a mistake." As evidence that it was not indicative of his beliefs, he noted that his projections of the law's impact have always assumed that all eligible people would get subsides, even though, he said, he did not assume all states would choose to run their own marketplaces. Gruber, as you probably know, was a paid technical advisor to the Department of Health and Human Services and an informal advisor to Democrats in Congress. He was also an architect of the Massachusetts reforms, signed into law by then-Governor Mitt Romney, that served more or less as the Affordable Care Act's prototype. The comments from 2012 came during a question-and-answer session, following a lecture he gave at a non-profit research group based outside of Washington. Here’s the key excerpt: Questioner: You mentioned the health-information [sic] Exchanges for the states, and it is my understanding that if states don’t provide them, then the federal government will provide them for the states. Gruber: Yeah, so these health-insurance Exchanges, you can go on ma.healthconnector.org and see ours in Massachusetts, will be these new shopping places and they’ll be the place that people go to get their subsidies for health insurance. In the law, it says if the states don’t provide them, the federal backstop will. The federal government has been sort of slow in putting out its backstop, I think partly because they want to sort of squeeze the states to do it. I think what’s important to remember politically about this, is if you’re a state and you don’t set up an Exchange, that means your citizens don’t get their tax credits. But your citizens still pay the taxes that support this bill. So you’re essentially saying to your citizens, you’re going to pay all the taxes to help all the other states in the country. I hope that’s a blatant enough political reality that states will get their act together and realize there are billions of dollars at stake here in setting up these Exchanges, and that they’ll do it. But you know, once again, the politics can get ugly around this...snipped http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118851/jonathan-gruber-halbig-says-quote-exchanges-was-mistake |
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| kbp | Nov 10 2014, 10:46 AM Post #1153 |
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On the videos of Gruber that have come to light, Rich Weinstein is the man. He has said he has loads and loads of videos of not only Gruber, but many others involved also. He's active in social media, often even posting in article comment sections. He once commented something to the effect that he captured and saved tons of videos BEFORE he ever released any, so to get them before any could delete them. Word has been that Gruber planned to file a brief at SCOTUS to work to explain what he had said and somehow color it favorable to the governments case. I'm a little curious why Rich Weinstein leaked this latest video before any such brief had been filed or the time allowed for it expired. I'm sure he is working with others that understand strategies in law much better than I do ....I'm hoping anyway! |
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| kbp | Nov 10 2014, 11:42 AM Post #1154 |
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SCOTUS taking King case has Obamacare proponents very worried (4 Justices question it already). The best they can reach for now is it's not fair to uninsured the newly insured ....it could KILL some. Nobody can dispute that the portions of the law telling us who gets subsidies are those applying for it at an exchange "established by the State." Before pro-Ocare can work to rewrite the law they must find ambiguity that is not absurd, the two steps.
Pro-Halbig/King explains how A, B, C and D work fine in the law with subsidies going to ONLY exchanges "established by the States." Ambiguity may or may not exist at this point. Pro-Ocare then claims we must take the ENTIRETY of the law into consideration, which seems to plant Step 2 INTENT into determining whether or not A, B, C and D creates Step 1 ambiguity. If the clear and obvious intent was for all to get subsidies, maybe this makes sense, but... If the bill clearly would have given the Fed such authority (it does not), it would not have passed ....PERIOD. Here's where I have had the most difficulty, sincerely trying to get past my own bias to understand WTH the pro-Ocare offers to complete their argument. If one even gives pro-Ocare the benefit of claiming the entirety of the law should persuade readers to agree that A, B, C and D indicates the intent of Congress was to provide subsidies at Fed exchanges also - that we should ignore the fact that A, B, C and D can be interpreted to go along with the alternative explanation - how do they get past explaining away the PLAIN TEXT of "established by the State" without an absurd explanation???? Why did they include the PLAIN TEXT in the law if A, B, C and D were to be interpreted as pro-Ocare ...how do they read that text out of the law???? The best I can figure out from the 4Th Circuit Court Of Appeals' ruling is that they then must redefine "BY the STATE." They ruled that since the fed may establish an exchange "on behalf of the state," that means it was "established by the State." It seems so clear to me after reading where they got the "established by the state" phrase! |
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| kbp | Nov 10 2014, 11:52 AM Post #1155 |
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The Fed opened their exchanges early for "window shopping." We may soon see headlines, possibly complaints about price increases ...but the subsidies would cover most to all of it for about 85%. |
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11:54 AM Jul 13