| Healthcare Bill Part III; Obamacare | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 3 2014, 02:20 PM (48,649 Views) | |
| LTC8K6 | Jul 25 2014, 07:22 AM Post #841 |
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Assistant to The Devil Himself
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBAHvX1WdWc
The law was written that way on purpose to try to force the states to create exchanges. Edited by LTC8K6, Jul 25 2014, 07:23 AM.
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| LTC8K6 | Jul 25 2014, 07:26 AM Post #842 |
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Assistant to The Devil Himself
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https://twitter.com/kerpen/statuses/492516497860743168
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| kbp | Jul 25 2014, 07:54 AM Post #843 |
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The Architect of Obamacare and Romneycare Jonathan Holmes Gruber A professor of economics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, where he has taught since 1992. He is also the director of the Health Care Program at the National Bureau of Economic Research, where he is a research associate. He is an associate editor of both the Journal of Public Economics and the Journal of Health Economics. In 2009 he was elected to the Executive Committee of the American Economic Association.
First off, the Administration's legal team is not arguing it was a "typo" or some sort of drafting error repeated again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again. If it was, the error is the law until Congress changes it. The IRS can't correct an error unless they can show it is ambiguous and have some way of showing what the intent of Congress was.
Barry and his Crew have certainly made the law up as they go along! . |
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| Baldo | Jul 25 2014, 08:31 AM Post #844 |
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The caps are $2,448 per person and $12,240 for a family of five. The amount is equal to the national average annual premium for a bronze-level health plan. Welcome to Bohica-land of Obama. Course of you work for the Govt or on welfare who cares? |
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| MikeZPU | Jul 25 2014, 09:06 AM Post #845 |
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Tell me which conservative lawmakers have actually publicly encouraged consumers to skip buying insurance? I have not heard any such public statement by any conservative lawmaker. But I am willing to be educated, if the reporter who wrote this article can point to concrete evidence of such. The author of this article writes this as though this is widespread. Note he/she did NOT say "SOME conservative lawmakers." Again, I watch Foxnews all the time AND I listen to Foxnews on XM Radio in my car and, yet, I have never heard a conservative lawmaker encourage citizens to just pay the penalty. To me, this is irresponsible "journalism". Edited by MikeZPU, Jul 25 2014, 09:07 AM.
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| kbp | Jul 25 2014, 09:11 AM Post #846 |
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It was predicted, and the head count of the uninsured makes it inevitable. |
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| kbp | Jul 25 2014, 09:14 AM Post #847 |
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http://online.wsj.com/articles/kim-strassel-the-obamacare-irs-nexus-1406244677?tesla=y The ObamaCare-IRS Nexus The supposedly independent agency harassed the administration's political opponents and saved its health-care law. Some very important information here, but I can't copy it with the laptop I am presently using. If anyone can paste it, I'd appreciate it! ADD: It helps to confirm what the intent was in constructing the text of the law that required an exchange established by the state if they wanted the FREE MONEY. Edited by kbp, Jul 25 2014, 09:22 AM.
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| kbp | Jul 25 2014, 09:45 AM Post #848 |
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelcannon/2014/07/25/obamacare-architect-jonathan-gruber-if-youre-a-state-and-you-dont-set-up-an-exchange-that-means-your-citizens-dont-get-their-tax-credits/ ObamaCare Architect Jonathan Gruber: "If You're A State And You Don't Set Up An Exchange, That Means Your Citizens Don't Get Their Tax Credits Michael Cannon" Halbig v. Burwell and King v. Burwell are the most important and hotly contested legal challenges involving the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, or ObamaCare. (Along with my sometime coauthor Jonathan Adler, I had something to do with those cases happening.) The central issue is whether the PPACA allows the IRS to issue tax credits through health-insurance Exchanges established by the federal government. Said government argues it’s implausible that Congress intended to withhold tax credits in states that don’t establish Exchanges. On Tuesday, the D.C. Circuit set off a firestorm when it ruled in Halbig that the PPACA’s language authorizing tax credits “through an Exchange established by the State” cannot be reasonably construed to authorize them in the 36 states with federal Exchanges. On the same day, the Fourth Circuit reached the opposite conclusion in King. On Thursday, however, the plaintiffs’ interpretation got another boost from an architect of the PPACA named Jonathan Gruber. The government argued in Halbig that the potential for adverse selection makes “it…untenable to suggest that Congress withheld premium tax credits from individuals who live in States with federally-run Exchanges. Congress sought to reform the non-group market, not to destroy it.” The government described as “baseless” the Halbig plaintiffs’ claim that Congress used the tax credits as an inducement to encourage states to establish and operate Exchanges. These arguments did not fare well in court. The D.C. Circuit found that the PPACA “encourages” states to establish Exchanges. Moreover, in other parts of the statute—the “CLASS Act” and the law’s treatment of U.S. territories, to name two—Congress showed a rather high tolerance for adverse selection, so the fact that a provision created the potential for adverse selection in the Exchanges did not render it implausible. Finally, even as the Fourth Circuit found the plaintiffs’ reading of the statute “plausible,” implicitly rejecting both of the government’s implausibility claims, even as it ultimately ruled for the government. The plaintiffs’ interpretation became even more plausible with the discovery of a January 2012 presentation by Massachusetts Institute of Technology economist Jonathan Gruber. I’ll get to why Gruber is significant in a moment. For now, note how he unequivocally agrees with the plaintiffs’ interpretation: the PPACA only allows tax credits in states that establish Exchanges. Here’s the relevant excerpt:
I couldn’t have said it better myself. Now why should we care about what this one health economist says about this hotly disputed feature of the PPACA? Gruber is not a member of Congress, so this isn’t direct evidence that Congress intended to offer tax credits only in state-established Exchanges. (The procedural path the bill took through Congress is dispositive evidence of that.) But he may be the next best thing. Gruber was an architect of both the PPACA and its Massachusetts precursor, “RomneyCare.” In 2009 and 2010, he was a highly paid advisor to the Obama administration during the congressional debate that produced the PPACA. According to the New York Times, “the White House lent him to Capitol Hill to help Congressional staff members draft the specifics of the legislation.” Later the above video, Gruber boasts of having written part of the PPACA. He boasts to the Times, “I know more about this law than any other economist.” He’s probably right about that. I don’t mean to overstate the importance of this revelation. Gruber acknowledging this feature of the law is not direct evidence of congressional intent. But Gruber is probably the most influential private citizen/government contractor involved in that legislative process. He was in the room with the people who crafted this bill. There may be videos of them talking about this feature too. (I wouldn’t know; I only researched congressional statements made pre-enactment.) At a minimum, however, with the D.C. Circuit and the Fourth Circuit and now Jonathan Gruber lining up against the idea that it is implausible that Congress could have meant what it said, we can dispense with that argument once and for all. [Isn't Gruber a direct witness to the intent he was to understand the text of the LAW was to convey? Tough question I suppose, when you consider all that was copied from HELP and Finance bills, but you'd think someone writing the law had to know how to make the copied parts fit.] Gruber Changed His Story Interestingly, Gruber changed his story around the same time it seemed this provision might imperil the statute he had worked so hard to craft, enact, and protect. Just one year later—after the IRS issued a final rule purporting to authorize tax credits in federal Exchanges, after Jonathan Adler and I published our research on this issue, and after people started filing lawsuits challenging that final rule—Gruber was singing a different tune. Here’s what he told Mother Jones in January 2013:
If my interpretation of the law were so screwy, nutty, and stupid, it should have been a slam dunk for the most knowledgeable economist ever on such matters. But he never answered the call. That same month, Gruber and I testified opposite each other in Florida. He told Florida legislators there was no reason for them to establish an Exchange for 2014. In early 2014, Gruber joined, and produced economic projections for, amicus briefs filed in Halbig and King by dozens of economists in support of the government. (Click here for my critique.) According to those briefs, Gruber now believes, “It is absurd to argue that Congress set up a federally-run Exchange while simultaneously denying participants the subsidies necessary to make the Exchange functional.” Why?
Finally, we have Gruber’s performance on Hardball with Chris Matthews, where Gruber avers, “It is unambiguous this is a typo”—indicating he doesn’t know what a typo is—and claiming Congress “had no intention of excluding the federal states. And why would they?” Also, “It’s just simply a typo, and it’s really criminal that this has even made it as far as it has.” Gruber was squarely on the plaintiffs’ side of this question back in 2012. Now he is squarely — angrily! — on the government’s side. I’ll let him explain his change of heart. But one last observation. Gruber really does have one of the greatest empirical minds in health economics. When he’s not wearing his advocacy hat, I pretty much take what he says as gospel. So when he claims this or that economic dynamic makes it implausible that Congress meant what it said, I guarantee he was aware of all those factors back in 2012. To claim he wasn’t, now that would be implausible. |
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| kbp | Jul 25 2014, 10:18 AM Post #849 |
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Same topic... http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelcannon/2014/02/10/congressional-report-treasury-irs-hhs-conspired-to-create-an-unauthorized-half-trillion-dollar-entitlement/ Congressional Investigation: Treasury, IRS, HHS Conspired To Create An Unauthorized, Half-Trillion Dollar Entitlement Michael Cannon Last week, two congressional committees issued a little-noticed report detailing how Treasury Department, Internal Revenue Service, and Health and Human Services officials conspired to create a massive new entitlement not authorized anywhere in federal law. In the summer of 2012, the House of Representatives’ Committee on Oversight & Government Reform and Committee on Ways & Means launched an investigation to determine “whether IRS and Treasury conducted an adequate review of the statute and legislative history prior to coming to [the] conclusion that [the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act's] premium subsidies would be allowed in federal exchanges.” Over the next 18 months, the committees held numerous hearings with senior Treasury and IRS officials, while investigative staff conducted interviews with key agency attorneys responsible for developing the regulations in question. Investigators also reviewed what few documents Treasury and IRS officials allowed them to see. Here is what seven key Treasury and IRS officials told investigators. In early 2011, Treasury and IRS officials realized they had a problem. They unanimously believed Congress had intended to authorize certain taxes and subsidies in all states, whether or not a state opted to establish a health insurance “exchange” under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. At the same time, agency officials recognized: (1) the PPACA plainly does not allow those taxes and subsidies in non-establishing states; (2) the law’s legislative history offers no support for their theory that Congress intended to allow them in non-establishing states; and (3) Congress had not given the agencies authority to treat non-establishing states the same as establishing states. Nevertheless, agency officials agreed, again with apparent unanimity, to impose those taxes and dispense those subsidies in states with federal Exchanges, the undisputed plain meaning of the PPACA notwithstanding. Treasury, IRS, and HHS officials simply rewrote the law to create a new, unauthorized entitlement program whose cost “may exceed $500 billion dollars over 10 years.” (My own estimate puts the 10-year cost closer to $700 billion.) Finally, what little research the agencies performed on Congress’ intent was neither ”serious” nor “thorough,” and appears to have occurred after after agency officials had already made up their minds. For example, Treasury and IRS officials were unaware of numerous elements of the statute and legislative history that conflicted with their theory of Congress’s intent and supported the plain meaning of the statute. Background Section 1311 of the PPACA directs states to establish health insurance Exchanges. If a state declines, Section 1321 directs the federal government to establish an Exchange within that state. Other sections authorize health-insurance subsidies as well as penalties against individuals and employers who do not purchase coverage. The PPACA authorizes the IRS to issue health-insurance tax credits only to taxpayers who purchase coverage “through an Exchange established by the State under section 1311 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.” The tax-credit eligibility rules repeat this restriction, without deviation, nine times. The undisputed plain meaning of these rules is that when states decline to establish an Exchange and thereby opt for a federal Exchange — as 34 states accounting for two-thirds of the U.S. population have done — the IRS cannot issue tax credits in those states. Treasury, IRS, and HHS officials simply decided that Congress was wrong, and conspired to disregard the clear restrictions Congress placed on this new entitlement program. In effect, they created a new entitlement program that no Congress ever authorized. The IRS is dispensing those unauthorized subsidies today, which means that two-thirds of the tax credits the IRS is issuing are illegal. The following account of how the agencies created this massive new entitlement program is taken from the congressional investigators’ report. How Changing a Few Words Can Create a $700 Billion Entitlement In the summer of 2010, IRS officials began working on rules to implement the PPACA’s premium-assistance tax credits. Like the statute itself, early drafts of their regulations reflected the requirement that tax-credit recipients must be enrolled in health insurance through an Exchange “established by the State under section 1311.” In March 2011, Emily McMahon came across a news article noting that the Act only authorizes tax credits through state-established Exchanges. McMahon told investigators that article was the first she had heard of this provision of the law. That’s significant, because as the Acting Assistant Secretary for Tax Policy at the Department of Treasury, McMahon was responsible for implementing that provision of the statute. A full year after President Obama signed the PPACA into law, McMahon was unaware of a very important feature of the statutory language she was charged with implementing. According to investigators, shortly after McMahon learned that the language “established by the State under section 1311” appears in the statute, it disappeared from the IRS’s draft regulations. It was replaced with language permitting tax credits to be issued through federal Exchanges. That seemingly minor change is significant for several reasons. First, the IRS doesn’t have the authority to issue tax credits on its own, and Congress clearly authorized these credits only in specific circumstances. Second, these “tax credits” are actually cash payments that the IRS sends straight to private health insurance companies. Third, the tax credits trigger a host of other measures, including additional subsidies as well as penalties against both individuals and employers who fail to purchase adequate coverage. If a state doesn’t establish an Exchange, no tax credits are allowed, and those employers and individuals are explicitly exempt from such penalties. But when the IRS issues unauthorized tax credits in those states, it subjects individuals and employers to illegal penalties. Again, this is happening right now, in 34 states accounting for two-thirds of the U.S. population. By my estimate, over 10 years this seemingly innocuous change will result in the IRS taxing, borrowing, and spending a staggering $700 billion more than the PPACA allows, which is almost as much as the PPACA’s initial price tag. All for no more reason than a few unelected bureaucrats felt like it. I wish that were an exaggeration. A Conspiracy against Taxpayers Congressional investigators found that from the moment this issue came to the attention of Treasury and IRS officials, everyone involved agreed not to follow the statute — even though the statutory language was (as Treasury officials would later describe it) “apparently plain,” and they recognized that Congress had given the IRS no authority to designate an Exchange established by the federal government under Section 1321 to be “an Exchange established by the State under section 1311.” To get around that problem, Treasury and IRS officials asked HHS to issue a rule declaring that federally established Exchanges are in fact “established by the State.” HHS had no authority to make such a paradoxical designation either, yet the agency obliged. When the IRS published its proposed tax-credit rule on August 17, 2011, it adopted HHS’s counter-textual designation. That had the effect of proposing to offer tax credits in federal Exchanges; or more precisely, of proposing a massive new entitlement program that is in fact specifically precluded by federal law. The proposed rule met instant condemnation in the media, from members of Congress, and from individual citizens during the rule’s public-comment period. Critics noted the IRS was planning to do the exact opposite of what the statute permits the agency to do. The U.S. Department of…Yeah, Whatever Congressional investigators found Treasury and IRS officials never took the law or these criticisms seriously:
Indeed, according to investigators, IRS and Treasury officials said they “did not consider the statutory language expressly precluding subsides in federal exchanges to be a significant issue” and “spent relatively little time on it.” Here are a few of the things investigators were able to learn.
The committees’ report does not provide a complete picture of how Treasury, the IRS, and HHS conspired to create this new entitlement program. Treasury and the IRS have refused to show certain documents to congressional investigators. Even when they are willing to share documents, they allow investigators to review them only briefly, without taking notes. Even so, the Committees’ report tells a story of government officials who decided they knew better than Congress how many taxpayer dollars they should spend. Who had a vision of health care reform that they were determined to enact, even though their vision did not and could not pass Congress. Who could not be bothered to obey the law. It should help put pressure on Treasury and the IRS to be more forthcoming about how they reached this decision. |
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| MikeZPU | Jul 25 2014, 10:59 AM Post #850 |
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/25/architect-undermines-obamacare-foundation/ kbp: Fox is following your lead! Excellent investigative work!!!! God, I hope that this is brought to the attention of SCOTUS, and that Chief Justice Roberts does the right thing this time. Gruber, an MIT professor who has become a Democratic health care talking head, also gets paid for talking to industry groups about ObamaCare. In one 2012 speech, Gruber talked about the provision in the law that has state governments administer enrollments, including subsidies. “I think what’s important to remember politically about this is if you’re a state and you don’t set up an exchange, that means your citizens don’t get their tax credits,” said Gruber, a MIT professor, in a speech two years ago. Why is that problematic? Because it directly contradicts what the administration argued in court about a lawsuit that could be “devastating” to ObamaCare because it would end the subsidies paid to enrollees in the states that did not voluntarily comply. |
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| kbp | Jul 25 2014, 01:28 PM Post #851 |
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Drudge...Interesting, but you'd expect the IRS to do this to abide by the law as determined by SCOTUS, though they're growing quite famous for violating the laws now ...a rather selective way to operate! |
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| kbp | Jul 25 2014, 01:59 PM Post #852 |
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http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2014/07/25/Obamacare-Architect-Jonathan-Gruber-Once-Again-Ties-Subsidies-to-State-Based-Exchanges Obamacare Architect Jonathan Gruber Once Again Ties Subsidies to State-Based Exchanges ...A new audio clip finds him once again explaining that Obamacare subsidies are tied to state health exchanges. ...This morning Gruber told the New Republic's Jonathan Cohn that he doesn't know why he said it at the time in 2012. "I was speaking off-the-cuff. It was just a mistake," he claims. He added, "My subsequent statement was just a speak-o—you know, like a typo." A typo is usually a simple slip of the finger on the keyboard, i.e. a misspelling or missed bit of punctuation. Gruber's statement is nearly a minute long. Also, it turns out it was not the only time he made such a statement. An audio clip from a public appearance Gruber made at the Jewish Community Center of San Francisco on January 10, 2012 reveals he made the same connection between subsidies and state-based exchanges on at least one other occasion (hat tip to MorgenR). Obviously, Gruber can continue to claim he was wrong but it becomes harder to explain this as the equivalent of a typo when he said it more than once. In addition, it's worth pointing out that on this occasion, unlike the one revealed last night, Gruber's statement was not in response to a question. During both speeches, Gruber listed three possible threats to the implementation of Obamacare. In both cases the third "threat" was that states would not set up exchanges. In the January 10th speech (above) he simply went into more detail about the nature of that threat. In the January 18th speech that detail wasn't mentioned until the Q&A. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbMmWhfZyEI [1:30 video] In video he says denying citizens “100s of millions and billions of $' Edited by kbp, Jul 25 2014, 02:01 PM.
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| kbp | Jul 25 2014, 02:05 PM Post #853 |
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http://reason.com/blog/2014/07/24/watch-obamacare-architect-jonathan-grube Reason now has FOUR updates. Gruber is looking like an over-educated elite fool. Desperate denial at its worst! |
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| LTC8K6 | Jul 25 2014, 05:28 PM Post #854 |
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Assistant to The Devil Himself
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http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2014/07/25/Another-Stunning-Admission-in-Gruber-s-Speech-The-Public-Option-Was-Single-Payer Another Stunning Admission in Gruber's Speech: The Public Option Was Single Payer |
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| kbp | Jul 26 2014, 02:45 AM Post #855 |
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It is stacks of lies changed with more lies and it only helps 10% of population at best in year$ to come |
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11:54 AM Jul 13