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Healthcare Bill Part III; Obamacare
Topic Started: Mar 3 2014, 02:20 PM (48,683 Views)
kbp

LTC8K6
Apr 4 2014, 11:35 AM
Here is a source that confirms this happened!
Quote:
 
https://www.healthcare.gov/help/statetransfer/
What if my state application was transferred to the Marketplace?

If you applied for a state health program, or you made changes to your state program information, you may get a notice explaining that you or someone on your application doesn’t qualify for Medicaid and Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP) in your state. Your notice will explain that your state application information was transferred to the Health Insurance Marketplace....

Evidently they feel this is legal.

Now look at what else is on the web page:
Quote:
 
What if I have a new transferred application along with other applications in the Marketplace?

If you have more than one application in your Marketplace account, you’ll want to use the newest one if it has the most recent information about your household’s income, address, and family size.

If income and family size haven’t changed since you applied for your state program, you can complete and submit your new transferred application:

  • Select “Find my existing application,” enter your Application ID number, then select “New – Transferred application.”
  • If you work on this new transferred application but you don’t enroll, this application will be listed as an “In-progress” application or a “Submitted application” the next time you log in to HealthCare.gov.
If you’ve had changes since you applied for your state program, like a decrease in income or an increase in family size, you should start a new Marketplace application:
[..]
What happens to my old application?
When you submit a transferred or in-progress application, or start a new one, it becomes your active Marketplace application. Any others become inactive.

I now suspect the 7.1 million includes many more duplicate "sign ups" than I'd previously thought.
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kbp

Fox News "Five" (where they interrupt each other constantly making it difficult for viewers)...

Oct 1 thru Mar 31:
118,628 - Coloradans signed up
230,308 - Coloradans w/Customer Accounts

18% are 26-34 YO
27% are 55-64 YO

This is a borderline state, leaning left more the last decade.

Notice they have less than half of the Accounts in the signed up category. If they count different than the federal "market," this may indicate that the 7.1 million count is a big illusion. Just a thought, as the count doesn't really make Obamacare a success.


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kbp

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WTH happened in Vermont?

????????
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chatham
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WTH happened in Vermont?

????????

Not many people.
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kbp

Found link to Colorado #'s
http://connectforhealthco.com/news-events/metrics/
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chatham
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http://www.shark-tank.com/2014/04/04/hhs-started-individual-obamacare-applications-prior-to-deadlineobtained-personal-info-from-states/

HHS “Started” Individual Obamacare Applications Prior To Deadline,Obtained Personal Info From States Posted by: Javier Manjarres on April 4, 2014

Read more at: http://www.shark-tank.com/2014/04/04/hhs-started-individual-obamacare-applications-prior-to-deadlineobtained-personal-info-from-states/ | The Shark Tank
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kbp

I assume that application thingy is legal.
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wingedwheel
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Not Pictured Above
kbp
Apr 5 2014, 08:14 AM
I assume that application thingy is legal.
Everything the 0bama administration does is legal because Holder is running DOJ.
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kbp

From Ted Cruz Tweet...

Posted Image

:party: :party:
Celebration in Rose Garden
Edited by kbp, Apr 5 2014, 08:31 AM.
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wingedwheel
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Not Pictured Above
What is the difference between the mafia and the government?

The government is allowed to force you to buy protection.
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Baldo
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WSJ - Peggy Noonan on Obama-care: Really a wonderful article

A Catastrophe Like No Other
The president tries to put a good face on ObamaCare.


Put aside the numbers for a moment, and the daily argument.

"Seven point one million people have signed up!"

"But six million people lost their coverage and were forced onto the exchanges! That's no triumph, it's a manipulation. And how many of the 7.1 million have paid?"

"We can't say, but 7.1 million is a big number and redeems the program."

"Is it a real number?"

"Your lack of trust betrays a dark and conspiratorial right-wing mindset."

As I say, put aside the argument, step back and view the thing at a distance. Support it or not, you cannot look at ObamaCare and call it anything but a huge, historic mess. It is also utterly unique in the annals of American lawmaking and government administration.

Its biggest proponent in Congress, the Democratic speaker of the House, literally said—blithely, mindlessly, but in a way forthcomingly—that we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it. It is a cliché to note this. But really, Nancy Pelosi's statement was a historic admission that she was fighting hard for something she herself didn't understand, but she had every confidence regulators and bureaucratic interpreters would tell her in time what she'd done. This is how we make laws now.

Her comments alarmed congressional Republicans but inspired Democrats, who for the next three years would carry on like blithering idiots making believe they'd read the bill and understood its implications. They were later taken aback by complaints from their constituents. The White House, on the other hand, seems to have understood what the bill would do, and lied in a way so specific it showed they knew exactly what to spin and how. "If you like your health-care plan, you can keep your health-care plan, period." "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor, period." That of course was the president, misrepresenting the facts of his signature legislative effort. That was historic, too. If you liked your doctor, your plan, your network, your coverage, your deductible you could not keep it. Your existing policy had to pass muster with the administration, which would fight to the death to ensure that 60-year-old women have pediatric dental coverage.

The leaders of our government have not felt, throughout the process, that they had any responsibility to be honest and forthcoming about the major aspects of the program, from its exact nature to its exact cost. We are not being told the cost of anything—all those ads, all the consultants and computer work, even the cost of the essential program itself.

What the bill declared it would do—insure tens of millions of uninsured Americans—it has not done. There are still tens of millions uninsured Americans. On the other hand, it has terrorized millions who did have insurance and lost it, or who still have insurance and may lose it.

The program is unique in that it touches on an intimate and very human part of life, the health of one's body, and yet normal people have been almost wholly excluded from the debate. This surely was not a bug but a feature. Given a program whose complexity is so utter and defeating that it defies any normal human attempt at comprehension, two things will happen. Those inclined to like the spirit of the thing will support it on the assumption the government knows what it's doing. And the opposition will find it difficult to effectively oppose—or repeal the thing—because of the program's bureaucratic density and complexity. It's like wrestling a manic, many-armed squid in ink-darkened water.

Social Security was simple. You'd pay into the system quite honestly and up front, and you'd receive from the system once you were of retirement age. If you supported or opposed the program you knew exactly what you were supporting or opposing. The hidden, secretive nature of ObamaCare is a major reason for the opposition it has engendered.

The program is unique in that the bill that was signed four years ago, on March 23, 2010, is not the law, or rather program, that now exists. Parts of it have been changed or delayed 30 times. It is telling that the president rebuffed Congress when it asked to work with him on alterations, but had no qualms about doing them by executive fiat. The program today, which affects a sixth of the U.S. economy, is not what was passed by the U.S. Congress. On Wednesday Robert Gibbs, who helped elect the president in 2008 and served as his first press secretary, predicted more changes to come. He told a business group in Colorado that the employer mandate would likely be scrapped entirely. He added that the program needed an "additional layer" or "cheaper" coverage and admitted he wasn't sure the individual mandate had been the right way to go.

Finally, the program's supporters have gone on quite a rhetorical journey, from "This is an excellent bill, and opponents hate the needy" to "People will love it once they have it" to "We may need some changes" to "I've co-sponsored a bill to make needed alternations" to "This will be seen by posterity as an advance in human freedom."

That was the president's approach on Tuesday, when he announced the purported 7.1 million enrollees. "The debate over repealing this law is over. The Affordable Care Act is here to stay. . . . In the end, history is not kind to those who would deny Americans their basic economic security. Nobody remembers well those who stand in the way of America's progress or our people. And that's what the Affordable Care Act represents. As messy as it's been sometimes, as contentious as it's been sometimes, it is progress."

Someone said it lacked everything but a "Mission Accomplished" banner. It was political showbiz of a particular sort, asking whether the picture given of a thing will counter the experience of the thing.

There's a brute test of a policy: If you knew then what you know now, would you do it? I will never forget a conversation in 2006 or thereabouts with a passionate and eloquent supporter of the decision to go into Iraq. We had been having this conversation for years, he a stalwart who would highlight every optimistic sign, every good glimmering. He argued always for the rightness of the administration's decision. I would share my disquiet, my doubts, finally my skepticism. One night over dinner I asked him, in passing, "If we had it to do over again, should we have gone in? would you support it?"

And he said, "Of course not!"

Which told me everything.

There are very, very few Democrats who would do ObamaCare over again. Some would do something different, but they wouldn't do this. The cost of the blunder has been too high in terms of policy and politics.

They, and the president, are trying to put a good face on it.

Republicans of all people should not go for the happy face. They cannot run only on ObamaCare this year and later, because it's not the only problem in America. But it's a problem, a big one, and needs to be hard and shrewdly fought.

http://tinyurl.com/l2oa9j7
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kbp

Baldo
Apr 5 2014, 10:11 AM
WSJ - Peggy Noonan on Obama-care: Really a wonderful article

A Catastrophe Like No Other
The president tries to put a good face on ObamaCare.


Put aside the ...daily argument.

...The White House, on the other hand, seems to have understood what the bill would do, and lied in a way so specific it showed they knew exactly what to spin and how... That was historic, too. If you liked your doctor, your plan, your network, your coverage, your deductible you could not keep it.

...Your existing policy had to pass muster with the administration, which would fight to the death to ensure that 60-year-old women have pediatric dental coverage.

...Given a program whose complexity is so utter and defeating that it defies any normal human attempt at comprehension, two things will happen....support it...difficult to effectively oppose it...

http://tinyurl.com/l2oa9j7
It's hard to argue that it was not designed to be a failure that would create a new right requiring national health care as the ONLY solution, but they did face the problem that about 90% of the population did not need that solution.

...a program whose complexity...defies...comprehension...difficult to effectively oppose

The simple "comprehension" is how much it costs per uninsured that now have coverage, the imposition suffered by the nation from the totality of that cost, and the violation of your liberty in how it is mandated.

Just the cost per person alone should show what a failure this program is... an embarrassing failure.
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Baldo
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Obamacare Drives Up Insurance Costs For North Carolinians

North Carolinians across the state are seeing their insurance premiums rise, WNCT-NC reports.

“Almost everyone I’ve talked to, their insurance has gone up,” said Kathleen Forrest, a North Carolinian who needs health insurance. “If their insurance is going up a hundred, two hundred, five hundred dollars a month…what are they not getting? What are they not doing for their families?”

Al Delia, a professor at East Carolina University’s medical school, said that the newly insured have a steep learning curve understanding the complicated insurance market.

Delia also noted that many of those currently insured were being told they couldn’t see particular doctors...snipped

http://freebeacon.com/issues/obamacare-drives-up-insurance-costs-for-north-carolinians/?utm_content=buffer4d31d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer


Video: WNCT-NC: ObamaCare Drives Up Insurance Costs For North Carolinians

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8yUM-3zzCc
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Baldo
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From: Reason Magazine
Obamacare's Bogus Enrollment Claims
The program has failed in extending coverage to the uninsured.


....Obamacare promised to cut the ranks of the uninsured and offer those already covered a better deal while bending the cost curve. Such rosy predictions, however, are not panning out.

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projected in February that the ACA would slash the nation’s 48 million–strong uninsured population by 13 million. (This was scaled back from its previous projection of 19 million, as The Washington Examiner’s Philip Klein notes.) But the ACA is not close to hitting even that more-modest target...snipped

......To recap: Obamacare has extended coverage to a far smaller portion of the uninsured than expected, caused millions of others to lose coverage, raised out-of-pocket costs for many middle-income consumers, diminished patient choice of doctors and hospitals and exposed Americans to future premium hikes.

Nor are things likely to get better next year. That’s because the mix of the new Obamacare sign-ups is so skewed toward the old and the sick that some experts are expecting premiums to double. This is why Americans are not popping the cork. Nor should the administration.


http://reason.com/archives/2014/04/04/obamacares-bogus-enrollment-claims

Looks like a winner in November!
:SarC:
Edited by Baldo, Apr 5 2014, 10:17 PM.
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kbp

Baldo
Apr 5 2014, 10:12 PM
From: Reason Magazine
Obamacare's Bogus Enrollment Claims
The program has failed in extending coverage to the uninsured.


....Obamacare promised to cut the ranks of the uninsured and offer those already covered a better deal while bending the cost curve. Such rosy predictions, however, are not panning out.

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projected in February that the ACA would slash the nation’s 48 million–strong uninsured population by 13 million. (This was scaled back from its previous projection of 19 million, as The Washington Examiner’s Philip Klein notes.) But the ACA is not close to hitting even that more-modest target...snipped

......To recap: Obamacare has extended coverage to a far smaller portion of the uninsured than expected, caused millions of others to lose coverage, raised out-of-pocket costs for many middle-income consumers, diminished patient choice of doctors and hospitals and exposed Americans to future premium hikes.

Nor are things likely to get better next year. That’s because the mix of the new Obamacare sign-ups is so skewed toward the old and the sick that some experts are expecting premiums to double. This is why Americans are not popping the cork. Nor should the administration.


http://reason.com/archives/2014/04/04/obamacares-bogus-enrollment-claims

Looks like a winner in November!
:SarC:
The numbers, from print page of link:
Quote:
 
http://reason.com/archives/2014/04/04/obamacares-bogus-enrollment-claims/print
....Consider how its three main mechanisms for extending coverage have fared.

First off, the exchanges: The seven million enrollment figure that the administration is bandying about is misleading. The actual number of uninsured covered by the marketplace will be much smaller. For starters, if the current trend continues, 20 percent of the seven million will drop out without paying. Out of the remaining 5.6 million, only about half were likely previously uninsured. Why? Because reliable early surveys found that a whopping 65 to 90 percent of those flocking to the exchange already had insurance. Even assuming that uninsured people were waiting until the end to sign up, it is hard to see how that figure would exceed 50 percent, given that six out of 10 uninsured people surveyed by the Kaiser Family Foundation recently didn’t know about the March 31 deadline and after being told about it, half of them still planned to remain uninsured.

Second, Medicaid. The administration claims that the ACA’s expansion of Medicaid has allowed four million to 4.5 million uninsured people to gain coverage. But a substantial portion of that stems from regular Medicaid growth (unrelated to Obamacare). In January, Real Clear Politics’ Sean Trende estimated the number to be closer to 400,000, although he expected things to improve as the sign-up deadline approached. And last month, Avalere, a health advisory company, put the new enrollees due to Obamacare at 2.4 million to 3.5 million. (Some states are reporting higher rates of uninsured Medicaid enrollment, but it is unclear how representative or reliable they are or how many of these uninsured might have been covered even under the old eligibility criteria.)

Third, the provision that allows 26-year-olds to stay on their parents’ plans. The administration claims that this provision has extended coverage to three million young people. But that’s a false assumption, given that at least some portion of them are college students with university coverage or self-employed with insurance from the individual market. Forbes’ Avik Roy estimates that the real figure is closer to 890,000, meaning that the administration’s figure represents an over 200 percent exaggeration.

All of this adds up to less than seven million uninsured being covered by Obamacare, which means that the program fell 46 percent short of CBO’s 13 million mark....

Many links to sources there.
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