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Presidential Debate - 10/16/12
Topic Started: Oct 14 2012, 08:22 PM (6,930 Views)
kbp

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Oct 17 2012, 05:39 PM
WaPo: Romney's coal plant is still open
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Obama right and wrong on coal plant
Posted by Steven Mufson on October 16, 2012 at 9:41 pm
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Obama said that Romney as governor stood outside a Massachusetts coal plant and said it killed people. He’s right that in 2003, Gov. Romney said he was opposed to giving the Salem Harbor coal plant an extension on regulations that required a reduction in emissions. When the issue of jobs came up, Romney said he wouldn’t protect jobs if it meant killing people and, pointing at the plant, he said that the coal plant was killing people. Obama was wrong when he said Romney “took great pride” in shutting down the plant. The plant is still open, though two of its four units have closed.


Thereby showing a good balance between industrial economics and preventing pollution.
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http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/oct/16/barack-obama/obama-says-romney-once-said-coal-burning-plant-kil/

snip

The Salem Harbor Power Station

Back on Feb. 5, 2003, Romney made several statements during a showdown over the future of the controversial, coal-burning Salem Harbor Power Station, in the Boston area.

A couple of years earlier, Massachusetts had passed new rules to reduce power plant emissions of nitrogen oxide, sulfur dioxide, carbon dioxide and mercury, to be phased in over several years. The mercury standard would not be finalized until 2004. As governor, Romney supported the rules, as he made clear repeatedly.

Massachusetts singled out its most egregious polluters as the "Filthy Five" plants, including Salem Harbor. Public health and environmental scientists at Harvard studied the emissions from two of the plants in 2000 and concluded that Salem Harbor was responsible for 53 deaths, 570 emergency room visits, 14,400 asthma attacks and 99,000 incidents of upper respiratory symptoms -- all per year.

Local residents and others who wanted to keep the Salem Harbor plant open (for jobs and tax revenues) disputed those figures, saying they resulted from unproven modeling. It turned out that the Harvard scientists had revised their figures in 2002, putting premature deaths from Salem Harbor’s pollution at 30 per year and reducing the number of emergency room visits to 400 and the asthma attacks at 2,000, according to the Boston Globe and the Boston Herald.

But the scientists stood by the broader conclusion -- that emissions from dirty power plants can be deadly. The Harvard methodology has now been widely replicated and is respected by health scientists, according to several environmental authorities we spoke with. Romney appeared to accept their findings, too.

The spat with Salem Harbor turned into a testy exchange after Salem Harbor’s then-owner, Pacific Gas and Electric, sought an extension until 2006 to comply with Massachusetts’ emissions rules -- and plant supporters showed up to to demand that the governor back off. Romney was adamant that the company comply by 2004 and appeared at a press conference near the plant to emphasize the point.

His statements that day show how he felt, and they’re documented in this video: "I will not create jobs or hold jobs that kill people, and that plant -- that plant kills people."

Our ruling

Obama said Romney has changed his tune about coal, claiming that in Massachusetts he "stood in front of a coal plant and pointed at it and said, ‘This plant kills.’"

Romney was the newly elected governor when a showdown erupted over the coal-burning Salem Harbor Power Station. Obama quoted Romney accurately when he said the governor entered the controversy by saying the plant "kills people."

We rate his statement True.

The exact quote of "this plant kills" is accurate, but taken out of context.


Obama: And when I hear Governor Romney say he's a big coal guy, I mean, keep in mind, when -- Governor, when you were governor of Massachusetts, you stood in front of a coal plant and pointed at it and said, "This plant kills," and took great pride in shutting it down. And now suddenly you're a big champion of coal.


Romney was enforcing regulations, not shutting down coal. Coal plants were still operating there.

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Mason
Oct 17 2012, 01:01 PM
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Crowley's network and the MSM is standing behind her - they needed her to insert herself for Obama.

This is another case of the outrages being limited to right and libertarian blogs.

She continually interrputed Romney, looked like a trained lapdog for Obama - didn't watch the fairness of the time and she repeatedly professed - and no one is asking how Obama knew Kerry, knew the question was coming from him, and even knew where he was seated.

.
Don't insult lapdogs. She looks more like a Walrus in training.
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Seems like I recall that Obama got 4 more minutes than Romney in the FIRST debate. Can anyone confirm that? If so, that is a total of 8 more minutes for Obama. I say let's make sure that any notion of media bias is straightened out in the final debate..,. where the deficits are given to Romney as additional time to make his points, UNINTERUPTED by the Moderator. The Debate Commission should see to that... I'm NOT holding my breath though. Who IS the moderator for Monday's debate?
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chatham
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They can stand behind her all they want. In the end it comes down to who watches her anymore and how many viewers she loses.
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chatham
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dsl
Oct 17 2012, 07:53 PM
Seems like I recall that Obama got 4 more minutes than Romney in the FIRST debate. Can anyone confirm that? If so, that is a total of 8 more minutes for Obama. I say let's make sure that any notion of media bias is straightened out in the final debate..,. where the deficits are given to Romney as additional time to make his points, UNINTERUPTED by the Moderator. The Debate Commission should see to that... I'm NOT holding my breath though. Who IS the moderator for Monday's debate?
bob scheiffer
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chatham
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Romney sure got obama by the short hairs on the Libyan discussion. Obama on the record,,,, I said it was a terrorist attack.
well, looky here.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/more-evidence-of-deception/2012/10/17/2a4a26c6-1870-11e2-a55c-39408fbe6a4b_blog.html

More evidence of deception
By Jennifer Rubin
President Obama’s attempts to wriggle free from his own words and actions on Libya are making things worse.

American Crossroads, taking exception to Obama’s announcement last night that he really had declared Benghazi to be an act of terrorism, has sent out a memo, which reads:

The President clearly misled the American people with this claim, because if Obama’s Rose Garden speech was indeed the White House position, it did not inform any subsequent statement by the White House press office — and was even directly contradicted by his own spokesman several days later.
On September 20 — eight days after Obama claims to have called the Benghazi attack an “act of terror” — Jay Carney affirmed to reporters that the White House had never called it “a terrorist attack.”

<snip>
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Can someone please identify any ONE statement made by Obama during the debate that was true?


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chatham
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Oct 17 2012, 09:32 PM
Can someone please identify any ONE statement made by Obama during the debate that was true?


He did say he was president and Hillary's boss.

I am president and Hillary works for me.
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kbp

chatham
Oct 17 2012, 09:35 PM
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Oct 17 2012, 09:32 PM
Can someone please identify any ONE statement made by Obama during the debate that was true?


He did say he was president and Hillary's boss.

I am president and Hillary works for me.
Hillary works for the USA.


Well, she's supposed to!!!
Edited by kbp, Oct 17 2012, 09:43 PM.
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He also said "When I was President, . . . "

hopefully, that will become a true statement.
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LTC8K6
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Assistant to The Devil Himself
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/10/cnn-explains.php

CNN Explains
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I can just imagine how that comment about Hillary sets with her and Bill. Obama is her "boss"!!!! The man who never even ran a lemonade stand is the "Boss" of a former First Lady? Oh my.... Me thinks that there is a revenge in the making somewhere out in the wild blue yonder.
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Mason
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Oct 17 2012, 09:30 PM
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:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
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kbp

LTC8K6
Oct 17 2012, 10:24 PM
...On why Obama got more time to speak, it should be noted that Candy and her commission producers tried to keep it even but that Obama went on longer largely because he speaks more slowly. We’re going to do a word count to see whether, as in Denver, Romney actually got more words in even if he talked for a shorter period of time.



That explains why he needs EIGHT years to complete a FOUR year plan!
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