| NFL: Saints had a bounty system for injuring other team's players | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 3 2012, 01:17 AM (1,436 Views) | |
| Baldo | Apr 5 2012, 01:29 PM Post #31 |
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BTW in case you don't know, football was more violent at one time. How Teddy Roosevelt Saved Football From Oblivion ...Football was facing a crossroads in 1905. The violent nature of the sport led to 18 deaths on the field that year. Calls were increasing to sack the sport. Harvard, Columbia, Northwestern, Stanford and California had quit playing the game. The Georgia state legislature voted to ban football in 1897 after the death of a fullback at the University of Georgia. The governor vetoed the bill only after hearing from the player's mother, who urged him not to outlaw a sport her son had loved. Harvard president Charles Eliot wrote that no honorable sport embraces "the barbarous ethics of warfare." But Roosevelt, who took an interest in football as an 18-year-old Harvard freshman, came to the rescue. "Harvard will be doing the baby act if she takes any such foolish course as president Eliot advises," he wrote. Roosevelt held a private meeting with Walter Camp, the "Father of American Football," and coaches from Harvard and Princeton. "Football is on trial," Roosevelt told them. "Because I believe in the game, I want to do all I can to save it." Later that year, the men formed an organization that would become the NCAA. Rules were changed to increase the yards needed for a first down to 10 from five and a neutral zone was created at the line of scrimmage. But the most sweeping change was the legalization of the forward pass. Until that point, quarterbacks could not toss the ball downfield. Death and injuries subsided as football abandoned its rugby-like origins and Roosevelt, a bold and unforgettable character, had added to his accomplishments. http://www.thewizofodds.com/the_wiz_of_odds/2011/04/how-teddy-roosevelt-saved-football-from-oblivion.html Changes were indeed made. The Flying Wedge was banned, I listened to ESPN this morning to hear two ex-NFL players justifying the Saints by comparing it to war. They are wrong. Period. The game must changed. It isn't warfare, the opposition doesn't have bullets. In fact except for Pat Tillman most NFL Players are drawing huge salaries while real soldiers fight for us. |
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| Baldo | Apr 5 2012, 06:27 PM Post #32 |
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This is a long post from the filmmaker who taped Greg Williams' speech. The reasons he released it are complex. I found this extremely interesting and sad for the players who are suffering from long term head injuries & in this particularly case ALS. His co-producer was the person who blocked the punt that started their run to the Super Bowl Season. He now has ALS and suspects it came from his career in football suffering numerous head injuries. Tru Dat On January 13th, 2012, I was in a San Francisco hotel with one of my dear friends, Steve Gleason. He was a long-time New Orleans Saints special teams ace, (2000-2007). He was a yoga loving, long-haired, counter-culture fan favorite, who became a New Orleans icon. He married a local girl, made the city his off-season home, lived in modest places and mingled freely with the every man. He became a local legend September 25th, 2006, after his punt block on the first series back, re-opening the Super Dome, after Hurricane Katrina. As one of the locals in attendance described to me, “It was the biggest beer spill in history.” Seriously, a man blocking a punt in a football game actually kickstarted an entire region and gave a morale boost that transcended sport....snipped http://theusof.com/2012/04/tru-dat-gregg-williams-saints-audio-bountygate-pay-for-pain/ Edited by Baldo, Apr 5 2012, 06:37 PM.
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| kbp | Apr 5 2012, 06:34 PM Post #33 |
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...As one of the locals in attendance described to me, “It was the biggest beer spill in history.” I had never before thought about that happening, but now that it has been brought up I bet about 25% or more sitting near a beer drinker was wet after that play! |
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| Deleted User | Apr 5 2012, 08:13 PM Post #34 |
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I say take the rings and the trophy for the Super Bowl. This is no different on a sports level than what we have been criticizing the New Black Panther party for doing in putting out a bounty on the head of GZ. Obviously, a bit more extreme, of course, but let's be consistent. This is a thug team and needs to be dealt with in a way that they understand there is a price to pay for bad behavior. |
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| Baldo | Apr 9 2012, 02:03 PM Post #35 |
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Goodell upholds penalties in Saints bounty case In addition to upholding Payton’s suspension, which begins next Monday and runs through the Super Bowl—in New Orleans next season—Goodell also upheld suspensions of eight games for general manager Mickey Loomis and six games for assistant head coach Joe Vitt, along with a $500,000 fine for the franchise and the loss of second-round draft picks this year and next. Loomis, who declined comment Monday, and Vitt begin their suspensions after the preseason ends. The Saints case represents perhaps the starkest example yet of the sea change that the NFL has undergone since medical research and media reports on the long-term damage suffered by football players through concussions began to gain attention a few years ago. While former players say off-the-books incentives have been around for years, and current players say the tough talk about getting after specific opponents happens in locker rooms throughout the NFL, Goodell responded to the Saints case by handing out stern penalties....snipped http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-saints-bounties Good for Goodell! I played hard nose football and I recently had dinner with one of my college linebackers who was a high school coach. He totally agreed. This has no place in the NFL or in any sports. You never play with the evil intention to harm or injure your opponent. It is why I don't like the current craze of caged fighting. Have you ever heard most boxers talk at 40, never-mind 50? We called it punch drunk, it is really brain-damaged. |
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| Deleted User | Apr 9 2012, 07:34 PM Post #36 |
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He hasn't been harsh enough in my opinion. Collect the super bowl rings, rescind the title, suspend play for an entire season, make the owner cough up some cash as well. It's time to set an example. |
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| Baldo | Apr 13 2012, 06:16 PM Post #37 |
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Sad day for us football fans Lingerie Football League goes on hiatus for 2012 season ![]() The Lingerie Football League is hanging up its garters for the 2012 season. League spokesman Jim Wallin announced Friday that the LFL will go on hiatus until April 2013 so it can get on a warm-weather schedule in the spring and summer. Until then, players will go on promotional tours in Australia and Asia....snipped http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/lingerie-football-league-goes-hiatus-2012-season-190752473.html Word is there were bounties placed on booties. Edited by Baldo, Apr 13 2012, 06:24 PM.
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| nyesq83 | Apr 13 2012, 06:28 PM Post #38 |
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Random musing about injuries: The Canadian Football League field is larger. If their players are shown to have less overall injury, I wonder if expanding the NFL field would decrease serious head injuries by spreading the players out more. It might also decrease other health problems if players have to be more mobile and thus lighter and not 400lb boulders. |
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| Kerri P. | Apr 17 2012, 08:25 AM Post #39 |
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http://news.yahoo.com/latest-nfl-concussion-suit-cites-saints-bounties-192852727--spt.html Latest NFL concussion suit cites Saints' bounties Associated Press – 1 hr 3 mins ago ATLANTA (AP) — The four former NFL players who sued the league on Monday in a state court in Atlanta could be leading a wave of new lawsuits that cite the New Orleans Saints' bounty system for hard hits as evidence that pro football didn't properly protect its players from concussions. Legal experts and trial attorneys say they expect more complaints against the NFL to point to the Saints' scandal after the ex-players filed suit contending the bounty system was another example that the league "explicitly relied on violence" and neglected to educate players on the dangers of concussions. The claims give the new lawsuit an "added vitality" if attorneys can use it to bolster the idea that there's activity in the sport that goes beyond the typical violence associated with pro football, said Paul Haagen, co-director of the Center for Sports Law and Policy at Duke University. "It adds color" to the complaint, Haagen added. "And by raising it you hope to raise a general buzz in the public that this is an issue." snip.... |
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| Baldo | Apr 23 2012, 03:58 PM Post #40 |
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Report: Saints' Loomis eavesdropped on opposing coaches Another day brings another allegation of un-Saintly behavior in New Orleans. According to sources cited by ESPN's Outside the Lines, soon-to-be suspended Saints GM Mickey Loomis had an electronic device in his Superdome suite that enabled him to eavesdrop on opposing coaches. The device was apparently installed to allow a listener to monitor the New Orleans coaching staff but was allegedly altered to allow Loomis audio access to visiting teams during three seasons spanning 2002-2004. If the report is true, Loomis may not have only broken NFL rules but could also be in hot water with federal law enforcement for violating the Electronic Communications Privacy Act which prohibits electronic eavesdropping. There is a five-year federal statute of limitations (and a six-year statute per Louisiana state law) to prosecute an ECPA violation -- the audio device in question was apparently disabled around the time Hurricane Katrina made landfall in 2005 -- yet Loomis could also be targeted by lawsuits from aggrieved parties. "This is 1,000% false. This is 1,000% inaccurate," said Saints spokesman Greg Bensel. The NFL was apparently unaware of the accusations prior to ESPN breaking the story....snipped http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2012/04/report-saints-gm-mickey-loomis-eavesdropped-on-opposing-coaches/1#.T5XB8tmig4c This is a very serious allegation. If true the Saints will become the Ain'ts Edited by Baldo, Apr 23 2012, 04:01 PM.
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| Kerri P. | May 2 2012, 02:16 PM Post #41 |
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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/jonathan-vilma-suspended-season-role-saints-bounty-system-155350881.html Jonathan Vilma suspended for 2012 season for role in Saints bounty system Shutdown Corner – 3 hours ago The NFL continued doling out punishment for the New Orleans Saints' bounty program on Wednesday, suspending linebacker Jonathan Vilma for the entire 2012 season for his role in the team's pay-for-hits system. Defensive end Will Smith will sit out four games. Anthony Hargrove, a former Saints defensive end who signed with the Green Bay Packers in March, was given an eight-game suspension. Cleveland Browns linebacker Scott Fujita was suspended for three games. The NFL found that Vilma offered $10,000 of his own money to any team member who knocked Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner and Minnesota Vikings quarterback Brett Favre out of 2009 playoff games. The linebacker agreed to a rare pay cut last month. He was scheduled to make $3.3 million salary and bonuses in 2012. His suspension is without pay, but it's immediately unclear whether he'll receive the $1 million roster bonus. snip.... |
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| Kerri P. | May 2 2012, 02:24 PM Post #42 |
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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--new-orleans-saints-get-off-lightly-with-player-bounty-suspensions-.html New Orleans Saints get off relatively lightly with player bounty suspensions Yahoo! Sports – 1 hour 48 minutes ago All things considered – such as the NFL investigating a reported 22 to 27 players in the bounty scandal – the New Orleans Saints made out OK on Wednesday. That was it for the current Saints roster, which was bracing for the worst. The league announced the suspensions of just four players, only two still currently with the team. New Orleans linebacker Jonathan Vilma was suspended, without pay, for the entire 2012 season. Defensive end Will Smith will sit the first four games. Former Saints defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove, now with the Green Bay Packers, will miss the first half of season. Linebacker Scott Fujita, currently with the Cleveland Browns, is out three. All but Vilma can participate in offseason programs and even play in preseason games. Fears are over in the Big Easy of a big smoldering fire where the team photo used to be. The organization has paid dearly, of course, no penalty bigger than losing head coach Sean Payton for the entire year. There was also a $500,000 fine, a lost draft pick and general manager Mickey Loomis getting sat for half a season. snip.... |
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| Baldo | May 18 2012, 12:16 AM Post #43 |
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Saints' Vilma sues Roger Goodell for defamation NEW ORLEANS (AP) Suspended Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma filed a defamation lawsuit Thursday against NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, claiming the league's top executive made false statements that tarnished Vilma's reputation and hindered his ability to earn a living playing football. The suit in U.S. District Court in New Orleans claims Goodell, ''relied on, at best, hearsay, circumstantial evidence and lies'' in making comments about Vilma while discussing the NFL's bounty investigation of the New Orleans Saints. Goodell has said Vilma was a leader of the team's bounty program that put up thousands of dollars for hits which took out opposing teams' star players from 2009-11, including $10,000 each on then-Arizona quarterback Kurt Warner and then-Minnesota quarterback Brett Favre during the playoffs in 2010. ''Commissioner Goodell opted to make very public and unfortunately erroneous allegations against Jonathan,'' said Vilma's attorney, Peter Ginsberg. ''By making these false and public statements, he has significantly harmed Jonathan's reputation and ability to make a living. ''By suing Commissioner Goodell in court, Jonathan opted to use a fair playing field where he has procedural rights and protections to remedy the harm Commissioner Goodell has done to him.'' Vilma wrote on his Twitter account that, ''As I've said before..I NEVER PAID, NOR INTENDED TO PAY ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY, TO ANY PLAYER FOR INTENTIONALLY HURTING AN OPPONENT.''...snipped http://sports.yahoo.com/news/saints-vilma-sues-roger-goodell-193542215--nfl.html;_ylt=AowzMiZA_z_4AYHN_q2RPEQ5nYcB |
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| Baldo | Jun 2 2012, 03:45 PM Post #44 |
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Two bad developments for the New Orleans Saints, Vilma, NFLPA, Brees. Sean Pamphlion says Brees, NFLPA knew of Williams tape NEW ORLEANS -- A documentary filmmaker says in a long website post that Drew Brees, Scott Fujita and the NFL Players Association knew about his recording of a vicious motivational speech by ex-Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams before it was released. Sean Pamphlion says the players sought to influence when the recording was made public. Pamphilon was working on a film with ALS-afflicted former Saint Steve Gleason when he recorded Williams the night before a Saints playoff game at San Francisco last January. Among other comments, the coach could be heard urging players to target an opponent with a history of concussions. Gleason has said he opposed releasing the speech because he did not want to violate the trust of the Saints. Pamphilon has taken heavy public criticism for acting against Gleason's wishes....snipped http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d829855e5/article/sean-pamphlion-says-brees-nflpa-knew-of-williams-tape?module=HP11_headline_stack Sources: New Orleans Saints kept a 'ledger' detailing weekly earnings in bounty scandal The NFL has a copy of a "ledger" that was kept detailing weekly earnings for players in the New Orleans Saints bounty system, according to two sources with knowledge of the investigation. The ledger, which shows both money earned for "cart-offs" and "whacks" and deducted for "mental errors," also points to the fact that players were told on a week-by-week basis of their performance. According to sources, the NFL showed portions of the ledger during meetings with some of those who have been investigated in the scandal. "The players clearly knew what was going each week with the payments," a source told Yahoo! Sports. In fact, multiple sources admitted that Saints defensive players would regularly encourage teammates to put money earned from the bounty system back into the pool. It's unclear if that was to increase the potential winnings or eventually use the money for some other purpose. Regardless of whether the money was paid out or not, the mere implication of a cash payment for such plays is considered a violation of league rules. ..snipped http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--sources--new-orleans-saints-kept-a--ledger--detailing-weekly-earnings-in-bounty-scandal.html;_ylt=AhSR6vM.rMroe.7lX5nMjDNDubYF I am sad that Brees defended against the Bounty charges. especially when he knew of Williams speech. The testimony of film maker Sean Pamphlion contradicts Brees. The Ledger if it exists is damning evidence against any lawsuit. The NO Saints need a house cleaning IMHO and the New Orleans' Owner had better realize it. He needs to fire people. |
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| Kerri P. | Jun 2 2012, 06:50 PM Post #45 |
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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--saints--bounty-scandal-underscores-danger-hard-hits-brain-trauma.html New Orleans Saints' bounty scandal underscores the danger of hard hits and brain trauma Yahoo! Sports – 2 hours 14 minutes ago The New Orleans Saints' bounty saga – aka the Scandal That Keeps On Giving – has officially veered into reality-show territory, with Friday's revelation by Y! Sports' Jason Cole of a pay-for-injury "ledger" providing a titillating encore to the previous day's scorched-earth essay by documentary filmmaker Sean Pamphilon. From the NFL's initial announcement of the investigation, to the unprecedented punishments doled out to Saints coach Sean Payton and other team officials, to the provocative audio of former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams' pregame speech, to linebacker Jonathan Vilma's defamation suit against NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, there has been no shortage of salacious storylines. In the process, many of the main characters have been turned into caricatures by some of those analyzing the situation: Goodell the Dictator, Payton the Reckless Rogue, Vilma the Villain, Williams the Morally Reprehensible Renegade, Pamphilon the Backstabbing Opportunist, former Saints linebacker Scott Fujita the Scheming Hypocrite. And now, as of Pamphilon's Thursday offering: Drew Brees, Duplicitous Manipulator. Wow. Just wow. snip.... |
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2:33 PM Jul 11