| NFL: Saints had a bounty system for injuring other team's players | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 3 2012, 01:17 AM (1,437 Views) | |
| Kerri P. | Mar 21 2012, 04:29 PM Post #16 |
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http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-silver_sean_payton_saints_bounty_roger_goodell_032112 Roger Goodell sends a message to the Saints, NFL: Lying and disrespect won’t be tolerated 1 hour, 5 minutes ago Roger Goodell sent a message Wednesday that resonated throughout the sports world, and it was more than a resounding blow for player safety or a repudiation of bounties and dishonesty. Plain and simple, it was a Tony Soprano-style declaration to everyone in the NFL family: You don’t have to love me. But you WILL respect me. In handing down incredibly harsh punishments to the New Orleans Saints and their former defensive coordinator for the bounty scandal that came to light earlier this month, the NFL commissioner left no doubt that he is the league’s most potent powerbroker, that he’s not going away anytime soon and that anyone who crosses him must do so at his own peril. This is not an insignificant statement. Goodell technically is employed by the league’s 32 owners, one of whom, the Saints’ Tom Benson, just lost the services of his head coach (Sean Payton) for the entire 2012 season and his general manager (Mickey Loomis) for half of it, not to mention a pair of second-round draft picks and $500,000. Another owner, the St. Louis Rams’ Stan Kroenke, lost his newly hired defensive coordinator (Gregg Williams) “indefinitely” (translation: at least a full season). Goodell, however, didn’t merely flex to his de facto bosses. He also took a machete to the Nixonesque culture that permeates America’s most popular sports league and is regarded as a perfectly reasonable way of conducting business. In a league that enables control-freak coaches and autocratic executives who shroud their actions in secrecy and employ an end-justifies-the-means ethos to their jobs, there’s a new world order: Don’t lie to the league, or conceal your actions, or try to cover them up – or Roger will ruin you. snip.... |
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| Baldo | Mar 21 2012, 06:20 PM Post #17 |
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From the NFL Release The findings in the league's investigation, corroborated by multiple independent sources, conclusively established the following: 1. The Saints defensive team operated a pay-for-performance/bounty program, primarily funded by players, during the 2009, 2010, and 2011 seasons. Under that program, players regularly made cash "donations" to a pool, and were "fined" for mental errors, loafing, penalties, and the like. At least one assistant coach (defensive coordinator Gregg Williams) also occasionally contributed to the pool. There is no evidence that any club money was contributed to the program. 2. Payments were made for plays such as interceptions or fumble recoveries. All such payments are against league rules. Payments also were made for plays on which opposing players were injured. In addition, specific players were sometimes targeted. The investigation showed bounties being placed on four quarterbacks of opposing teams - Brett Favre, Cam Newton, Aaron Rodgers, and Kurt Warner. Multiple sources have confirmed that several players pledged funds toward bounties on specific opposing players, with defensive captain Jonathan Vilma offering $10,000 to any player who knocked Brett Favre out of the NFC Championship Game in 2010. 3. Coach Williams acknowledged that he designed and implemented the program with the assistance of certain defensive players. He said that he did so after being told by Saints Head Coach Sean Payton that his assignment was to make the defense "nasty." Coach Williams described his role as overseeing record keeping, defining payout amounts, deciding on who received payouts, and distributing envelopes with cash to players who "earned" rewards. 4. In each of the 2009-2011 seasons, the Saints were one of the top five teams in the league in roughing the passer penalties. In 2009 and 2011, the Saints were also in the top five teams in unnecessary roughness penalties; in 2010, the Saints ranked sixth in the category. In the January 16, 2010 divisional playoff game against the Arizona Cardinals, Saints defensive players were assessed $15,000 in fines for fouls committed against opposing players. The following week, in the NFC Championship Game against the Minnesota Vikings, Saints defensive players were assessed $30,000 in fines for four separate illegal hits, several of which were directed against quarterback Brett Favre. 5. Coach Williams now acknowledges that when he was first questioned about this matter in early 2010 he intentionally misled NFL investigators and made no effort to stop the program after he became aware of the league's investigation. 6. Coach Williams further confirmed that the program continued during the 2010 and 2011 seasons, and that he occasionally contributed funds to the pool in each of those seasons. 7. Assistant Head Coach/Defense Joe Vitt acknowledged that he was aware of the program in 2009-2011. He admitted that, when interviewed in 2010, he "fabricated the truth" to NFL investigators and denied that any pay-for-performance or bounty program existed at the Saints. 8. Coach Vitt said one of his primary roles was to monitor the activity of Coach Williams. This was based on the direction of Coach Payton, who apparently had less than full confidence in Coach Williams. Despite Coach Vitt's knowledge of the bounty program, his understanding of the terms "knock-out" and "cart-off," his witnessing Coach Williams handing out envelopes that he believed to contain cash, and his acknowledgement that the defensive meeting preceding the 2010 NFC Championship Game may have "got out of hand" with respect to Brett Favre, Coach Vitt claimed he never advised either Coach Payton or General Manager Mickey Loomis of the "pay-for-performance/bounty" program. 9. A summary prepared following a Saints preseason game included the statement, "1 Cart-off - Crank up the John Deer (sic) Tractor" in reference to a hit on an opposing player. Similar statements are reflected in prepared documents or slides in connection with other games in multiple seasons. A review of the game films confirms that opposing players were injured on the plays identified in the documents. 10. When interviewed in 2012, Sean Payton claimed to be entirely unaware of the program, a claim contradicted by others. Further, prior to the Saints' opening game in 2011, Coach Payton received an email from a close associate that stated in part, "PS Greg Williams put me down for $5000 on Rogers (sic)." When shown the email during the course of the investigation, Coach Payton stated that it referred to a "bounty" on Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers. 11. In early 2010, Mr. Loomis advised Coach Payton that the league office was investigating allegations concerning a bounty program. Coach Payton said that he met with his top two defensive assistants, Coach Williams and Coach Vitt, in advance of the interview with league investigators and told them, "Let's make sure our ducks are in a row." Remarkably, Coach Payton claimed that he never inquired of Coach Williams and Coach Vitt as to what happened in the interviews, never asked them if a "pay-for-performance" or bounty program was in fact in place, and never gave any instructions to discontinue such a program. 12. In January 2012, prior to the Saints' first playoff game of the 2011 season, Coach Payton was advised by Mr. Loomis that the league office had reopened the investigation. Coach Payton made a cursory inquiry but took no action to ensure that any bounty program was discontinued. 13. General Manager Mickey Loomis was not present at meetings of the Saints defense at which bounties were discussed and was not aware of bounties being placed on specific players. Mr. Loomis became aware of the allegations regarding a bounty program no later than February 2010 when he was notified of the investigation into the allegations during a meeting with NFL Executive Vice President-Football Operations Ray Anderson. He was directed to ensure that any such program ceased immediately. By his own admission, Mr. Loomis did not do enough to determine if a pay-for-performance/bounty program existed or to end any such program that did exist. 14. Saints owner Tom Benson notified Mr. Loomis in January 2012 prior to the team's participation in the playoffs that the league's investigation had been reopened. Mr. Benson reiterated his position that a bounty program was unacceptable and instructed Mr. Loomis to ensure that if a bounty program existed at the Saints it would stop immediately. By his own admission, Mr. Loomis responded to this direction by making only cursory inquiries of Coaches Payton and Williams. He never issued instructions to end the bounty program to either the coaching staff or the players. 15. There is no evidence that Saints ownership had any knowledge of the pay-for-performance or bounty program. There is no evidence that any club funds were used for the program. Ownership made clear that it disapproved of the program, gave prompt and clear direction that it stop, and gave full and immediate cooperation to league investigators. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d827c15b2/article/nfl-announces-management-discipline-in-saints-bounty-matter?module=HP11_headline_stack Perhaps the NFL should have added another fine for stupidty |
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| cks | Mar 21 2012, 06:43 PM Post #18 |
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Colleges have their seasons vacated as well as their titles - this happened to OSU due to the trinkets for tats that occurred under Jim Troessel's tenure. I do not see why the Saints should not have to have their title vacated and their rings returned. It might send a powerful message. |
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| Deleted User | Mar 21 2012, 06:51 PM Post #19 |
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Could not agree more. When you consider where the franchise is located, it is not out of the realm of anyone's imagination to suspect that criminal activity would infiltrate an NFl franchise in New Orleans. The issue is really about how many non participants on the team knew what was going on and looked the other way. I dare say many, including Drew Brese. I say, take their title, rings, money, the entire kitty. It's past time the NFL decides what kind of standards they expect from their teams. |
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| Baldo | Mar 21 2012, 07:00 PM Post #20 |
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Statement From the New Orleans Saints "Today, Commissioner Goodell apprised us of the severe penalties facing our club, as proposed by the NFL. We recognize our fans' concerns and we regret the uncertainty this episode has created for them. We are humbled by the support our organization has received from our fans today in the wake of this announcement, and we ask them to continue to stand with us, as they have done in the past, when both our team and our city have overcome greater adversities. To our fans, the NFL and the rest of our league, we offer our sincere apology and take full responsibility for these serious violations. It has always been the goal of the New Orleans Saints to create a model franchise and to impact our league in a positive manner. There is no place for bounties in our league and we reiterate our pledge that this will never happen again." http://www.neworleanssaints.com/news-and-events/article-1/Statement-From-the-New-Orleans-Saints-/ad2b5d88-af4c-4cbf-881f-db20c8a9343e |
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| kbp | Mar 21 2012, 07:33 PM Post #21 |
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They need another hurricane down there soon to get the sympathy factor back on their side! |
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| Deleted User | Mar 21 2012, 07:49 PM Post #22 |
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Yea, nothing like a bit of looting and pillage to rally a town around the home team. |
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| kbp | Mar 21 2012, 08:06 PM Post #23 |
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They were BIG time news when it became game time after Katrina. |
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| wingedwheel | Mar 21 2012, 11:48 PM Post #24 |
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Bounty or no bounty, as long as you can hit people in football there is going to be players trying to hurt players on the other team. Of course with the direction the NFL is going they well being playing in skirts soon enough. |
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| foxglove | Mar 23 2012, 09:09 AM Post #25 |
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Maybe the NFL should look into Bernard Pollard. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/bernard-pollard-england-public-enemy-1-235805619.html Two commenters say at the end of the article: "He definitely twists the leg during that tackle. Pollard doesn't get a lot of press because he's never been on a high profile media team. if he was, he would surely get the dirty epithet. The guy seems like a hitman who puts focus on a teams best player, and takes him out. But hey, let's keep fining James Harrison and analyzing his every tackle because he's in the spotlight, while guys like this continue to hurt players on purpose." "After watching the playback repeatedly, it appears to me like he really leaned into the tackle almost to ensure some damage. The fact that he hurriedly walked away unapologetically right after (while his teammate waited around to see if things were ok) incriminates him more. I'm not going to call him "dirty". But the tackle seemed a bit over-zealous since he was already in the process of bringing him down with his falling weight." |
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| Deleted User | Mar 23 2012, 09:27 PM Post #26 |
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All the more reason to believe that if the NFL does not deal harshly with the players involved in this scandal, the entire point of the investigation will be meaningless. Go after the players, suspend them for a year without pay and maybe they will clean up their act. This is a tough sport, but to deliberately attempt to injure is a moral and professional issue and no sport should tolerate this behavior. There is a big difference between brute force and skill. |
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| Kerri P. | Apr 2 2012, 12:51 PM Post #27 |
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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/nflpa-warns-players-may-face-criminal-charges-bounty-155246283.html NFLPA warns that players may face criminal charges in bounty scandal Shutdown Corner – 1 hour 55 minutes ago The NFL Player's Association has warned players involved in the New Orleans Saints bounty investigation that they may face criminal charges related to the pay-for-hitting scandal. According to an Associated Press report, the NFLPA has hired outside counsel for upcoming meetings with the league that will further investigate the role of specific players in the system. The league's report said up to 27 players could have been involved in the team's bounty system, but only linebacker Jonathan Vilma was named. Most legal scholars agree that a prosecutor is unlikely to charge players for on-field acts. It's rare, both because the legal system tends to allow sports leagues to police themselves and because such cases can be tough to prosecute. "They're difficult cases to bring, because it's hard to prove the injury was caused by a tackle with specific intent to injure, rather than a regular tackle," law professor Gabe Feldman told the AP when news of the bounty scandal broke. "We all know injuries are a part of football. There can't be legal liability anytime there is an injury. Otherwise, you can't have football." Lawyering up is an obvious move, particularly when vengeance-happy Roger Goodell is involved in the proceedings. Like Steven Seagal, he's out for justice. Sean Payton is already banned for a year, Gregg Williams is suspended indefinitely and other authority figures received varying multiple-game suspensions. Goodell isn't done assigning blame yet and it stands to reason that players like Vilma will get punishments that are equally harsh. Heck, knowing Goodell, without sound legal advice, there's a good chance players could emerge from those meetings with the Kennedy assassination pinned on them. |
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| Baldo | Apr 2 2012, 12:54 PM Post #28 |
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"...particularly when vengeance-happy Roger Goodell.." great reporting, huh? |
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| Kerri P. | Apr 5 2012, 10:02 AM Post #29 |
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http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-silver_gregg_williams_speech_saints_49ers_bounty_040412 Source: Gregg Williams instructed Saints during speech to injure Niners offensive players 8 hours, 12 minutes ago The night before Gregg Williams’ final game as the New Orleans Saints’ defensive coordinator, the since-suspended coach gave a fiery speech to the team’s defensive players during which he made specific references to inflicting physical punishment upon several San Francisco 49ers in a postseason game the next day. In the speech at the team’s hotel near the San Francisco Airport, Williams – according to documentary filmmaker Sean Pamphilon – at one point made a hand signal suggesting he would personally pay for a ferocious shot on 49ers quarterback Alex Smith. Williams also referenced the prospect of his players inflicting a severe knee injury upon San Francisco wideout Michael Crabtree and exhorted them to “put a lick on” backup receiver Kyle Williams in an effort to “find out” if he was still suffering from the effects of a late-December concussion. Williams’ speech, delivered less than two months before the Saints’ bounty scandal became public, was revealed to Yahoo! Sports by Pamphilon, who had access to various team functions for much of the 2011 season. Pamphilon, who directed the critically acclaimed “Run Ricky Run” documentary for ESPN, is working on a project featuring former Saints special teams ace Steve Gleason, who is suffering from ALS. Pamphilon has released an audio recording of the profanity-laced speech (also obtained and listened to by Yahoo! Sports) on his website and said he believes “there’s no doubt at all” that Williams put a bounty on Smith in the meeting. snip.... |
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| Baldo | Apr 5 2012, 10:49 AM Post #30 |
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Pretty gross language & violent talk from the Defensive Co-coordinator of the Saints. No wonder NFL Commissioner Goodell suspended him indefinitely. I have been around football all my life & I have heard some tough language, but this guy is talking about injuring players and paying a reward. Going after the "head"(actual head) & causing ACL injuries. It is Gross! It is way over the top. I have never heard that from a coach because they all know it to be wrong. But even it somebody has, it has to stop. This is what he said. Warning" Expletives & repeated use of the F bomb Greg Williams Saints Bounty Audio Above is a 4 minute sample from the 12 minutes I recorded during the New Orleans Saints defensive, conducted by Greg Williams, meeting in San Francisco on Jan. 13th, 2012. This was edited for time but you can listen to it in it's entirety by going to, www.theusof.com and choosing "The Blog" in the drop down menu and clicking the link on the right under Resources. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhnn9kbqQUA Full Greg Williams "Bounty" Audio Tape at a Meeting on January 13, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3V149Nyjag Edited by Baldo, Apr 5 2012, 01:22 PM.
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