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GOP Debate 9/7/2011
Topic Started: Sep 7 2011, 08:58 PM (756 Views)
foxglove

Baldo
Sep 8 2011, 07:11 AM
kbp
Sep 8 2011, 01:24 AM
Well, it's not a Ponzi scheme, that's just the excuse used to say why it will not last forever as it is set up.

Perry should have pointed out the similar details and added remarks about how it never was a savings account for retirement ...it was a brilliant tax scam that worked great so long as we were popping 2+ children per household before either parent was 21 YO.
Yes, if he had emphasized the mismanagement of the fund by the Presidents & Congress from a fiduciary standpoint people would understand. Millions of Americans have paid into this fund as a tax with no opting out. They expect it to be there.

Social Security's Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) program and Medicare's Hospital Insurance (HI) program are financed primarily by employment taxes. Currently since 1990 the average employee pays 6.2 % for OSADI & 1.45 % for HI = 7.65% of his paycheck which is matched by his employer for a total of 14.3% towards his account.

That's a lot of money. Few people can save that percentage on a weekly basis. The problem is how our Azzhats have misused those revenues. It is "criminal" in my mind that those funds are not safe and haven't been earning a good ROI(Return of Investment). Instead "Our" govt used the funds to finance our govt and replaced the with an IOU. That would be OK if they took that money, invested it, and had the ability to deliver that money back to the "investors." But what happened if the USA cannot pay it back? What happens if they devalued our currency? Right about now many Americans don't feel safe about a system where the Fed can create money out of thin air to buy those Treasuries. What! I had to earned my money and couldn't go to the magic pencil to increase my fun.

Perry missed the real opprotunity that would have resonated with both sides of the Political spectrum, instead he went off in a direction that leads nowhere Politically and I mean nowhere! For 50% of Americans their SS tax is their biggest contribution and he calls it a Ponzi scheme?

It is how they used those taxes where the issue is and frankly both parties have stunk.
Excellent points.
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Mason
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Romney says Social Security is working - and it is working for Millions of Americans?

I think Romney's first instinct is to Government programs - like his Gov't run Medical program in Mass. that has cost much, much more than projected - even with the Federal Gov't pouring money into it.

The little details on Soc. Security are ugly, like SS Disability. I expect to see projections get increasingly worse on SS too. The people running the numbers are invested in the best projections, even if they are unlikely. And, of course, the money paid in was spent by Politicians, the same politicians that speak about SS with great reverence, like it's their religion.


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Edited by Mason, Sep 8 2011, 07:19 AM.
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LTC8K6
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Assistant to The Devil Himself
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/09/08/confusion/
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Mason
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foxglove
Sep 8 2011, 07:16 AM
Baldo
Sep 8 2011, 07:11 AM
kbp
Sep 8 2011, 01:24 AM
Well, it's not a Ponzi scheme, that's just the excuse used to say why it will not last forever as it is set up.

Perry should have pointed out the similar details and added remarks about how it never was a savings account for retirement ...it was a brilliant tax scam that worked great so long as we were popping 2+ children per household before either parent was 21 YO.
Yes, if he had emphasized the mismanagement of the fund by the Presidents & Congress from a fiduciary standpoint people would understand. Millions of Americans have paid into this fund as a tax with no opting out. They expect it to be there.

Social Security's Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) program and Medicare's Hospital Insurance (HI) program are financed primarily by employment taxes. Currently since 1990 the average employee pays 6.2 % for OSADI & 1.45 % for HI = 7.65% of his paycheck which is matched by his employer for a total of 14.3% towards his account.

That's a lot of money. Few people can save that percentage on a weekly basis. The problem is how our Azzhats have misused those revenues. It is "criminal" in my mind that those funds are not safe and haven't been earning a good ROI(Return of Investment). Instead "Our" govt used the funds to finance our govt and replaced the with an IOU. That would be OK if they took that money, invested it, and had the ability to deliver that money back to the "investors." But what happened if the USA cannot pay it back? What happens if they devalued our currency? Right about now many Americans don't feel safe about a system where the Fed can create money out of thin air to buy those Treasuries. What! I had to earned my money and couldn't go to the magic pencil to increase my fun.

Perry missed the real opprotunity that would have resonated with both sides of the Political spectrum, instead he went off in a direction that leads nowhere Politically and I mean nowhere! For 50% of Americans their SS tax is their biggest contribution and he calls it a Ponzi scheme?

It is how they used those taxes where the issue is and frankly both parties have stunk.
Excellent points.
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Yes, Excellent points.

Politicians get out there and say how well-funded SS is - and how perfectly safe it is - when, in reality, there are only promissory notes. They spent the money.


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Mason
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Here's my Question to Ponder. I'm hearing the Talking heads on this morning speaking so reverently about Social Security - and how Great it is - and how it's God-like.

What if AIG or some Wall St. Corporation took in this much money and promised it to others - and only had promissory notes and the account that SS has today? Would these people speak so lovingly of that Wall. St. Corp? Would they have so many put all their retirement money in it?

Or would they attack and want that Company torn down - and its Officers prosecuted?



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Mason
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Did George Bush try to sound the alarm on Social Security?

And it didn't go well. How long ago was that? What has been done to aid the solvency of SS in the interim?

It's been years - and nothing has been done - and things have only gotten worse.

So, the problem I have with Perry holding his tongue - and not stating this - and thinking of the PR aspect with people on SS - is that it Never gets fixed. It's going to crash and some will be caught holding the bag.

Are we saying he should not be honest so he's elected and then do something different after he's in office?

I have a problem with having large issues avoided entirely because of feelings or ignorance, or a media system that benefits one party so strongly.


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Mason
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How much does Barack Obama spend a Day?

I think, going by my aging memory, he has spent 4.1 Billion a day in office - in deficit spending.

On the trajectory we are on, should 16 yr olds carrying bricks or washing dishes and paying into Social Security today be confident that money will be there for them?


4.1 Billion a day!



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Edited by Mason, Sep 8 2011, 08:08 AM.
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Mason
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Mason
Sep 8 2011, 07:44 AM
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How much does Barack Obama spend a Day?

I think, going by my aging memory, he has spent 4.1 Billion a day in office - in deficit spending.

On the trajectory we are on, should 16 yr olds carrying bricks or washing dishes and paying into Social Security today be confident that money will be there for them?


4.1 Billion a day!



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In this context it seems Perry is doing the responsible thing.



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kbp

The points being missed on SS is

- it's NOT your savings account,

- the plan is NOT designed like a retirement savings account

- the payouts are NOT based soley on what you pay in

- it pays EVERYBODY at an older age so it will appear to be Ponzi type plan

- it is a social program for the welfare of the older folks

If we're going to keep it, limiting it to those who qualify for the NEED of it is the easiest solution. It looks more like a Marxist program when we all pay Big Brother and he pays us all something back monthly.


************

I had anticipated that the winner of the GOP primary would need to be somebody who the center will favor if we're to beat Obama. That isn't a brilliant observation on my part, it's just the most likely strategy that would be successful at obtaining the votes necessary to win the POTUS.

My preference would be the all-or-none approach, with a real conservative candidate, but I'd feel more secure about outing Obama with that more moderate candidate.

I think Romney is probably a best fit there, but I'm not sure he has that personallity needed to fire 'em up. His 'plan' is not bad, and he seems to be the only one making it available now - which seems to be a wise move when you consider how long we've been whining about Obama not having a plan.

I worry about the Romneycare issue, along with a few other things he did as Gov there. At the same time I have to give him credit, as the state of Massachusetts is not place a conservative could just have his way with.

Perry is switch-hitter (Dem to Rep), campaigned for the WORST Democratic candidate in the history of my lifetime (Gore), runs a state with one of the TOP rated child control systems in all of the USA (BAD - sucking in federal dollars), and his involvement in the Pan-American Highway has shown he is talking out both sides of his mouth on the illegal immigrant issue (where are the state forces preventing illegal immigration?).

He plays the part of a "conservative" well, but I do not know what his plans are and wonder if he'll 'fall off the wagon', so to speak, and run back to those Gore ideas. What changed his political ideas in the first place, besides needing to be a Republican to become Governor of Texas???

Of all the other candidates, I like Bachman and Cain, but question whether or not either has the 'get up & go' to win a campaign. I wish Cain had stood up and made himself heard more often.

Since it's still early, I have my hopes pinned on winning the majority of Congress so we can at least attach enough amendments to bills the POTUS must have ...the type that shut down the Executive Orders and wild spending ...similar to what happened to Clinton.
Edited by kbp, Sep 8 2011, 09:36 AM.
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Baldo
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Spot on comments by Dick Morris

http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/who-won-the-debate-dick-morris-tv-lunch-alert-2/

I totally agree that Perry blew it big time with SS. The Dems are attacking this morning and Perry gave them the hammer.
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Mason
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To go along with some of Kbp's comments, it started out as 140 contributors to one payee.

What's it going to be in 7 years?

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kbp

Listen to Dick Morris judge Perry on the SS/Ponzi issue.

While I agree the wording from Perry was left wanting, the message from Morris starts out;

"Yeah, it's a Ponzi scheme in the sense that you're constantly taking in new money to pay the old people, but you have the power to tax..."

Nobody admits that the new money is a must to cover what is paid out today, with exception for some old money tied up in US debt ...there to trinkle in as we run short on new money!

Oh well, we have more urgent problems at hand now!
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kbp

I'm late on Morris!


Another thing he mentions is Perry's "state right" injections on the teen girls, how Santorum countered with "parental rights". That is a topic due observation in Texas. For such a conservative state, they're a nanny state when it comes to children. Not to slam Baptists, but that's where the norm for regulating parents is established in that state.
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Baldo
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If you want to talk about Social Security as a Republican you talk about strengthening it. Making it better.

Over 33,000,000 people received SS. Any FOOL & I do mean FOOL running for office should know better than to say it is a Ponzi scheme in a national debate. It is the life blood for millions who have paid into it. You are trying to win their votes.

See Stats
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/supplement/2010/5a.html#table5.a1.1

I promise you that one comment will haunt Perry.
Edited by Baldo, Sep 8 2011, 02:45 PM.
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kbp

He should look into the NEEDS of those 33,000,000 people ...after the election!

I wonder if Buffett is collecting SS?
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