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Crystal Mangum Arrested Overnight - 4/3/11; Who didn't see this coming?
Topic Started: Apr 3 2011, 11:21 AM (27,928 Views)
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Walt-in-Durham
Apr 10 2011, 07:33 AM
Rogue prosecutor? No. There is far too much evidence to indicate that Nifong was anything but a rogue. The Derrick Allen case shows how Tracy Cline and Freda Black used very similar tactics to railroad an innocent man and let a guilty one wander free. The only difference I can see between Allen and the hoax is the SBI was more than willing to participate in the frame of Derrick Allen but they couldn't find any evidence to help frame Reade, Colin and Dave.

Rogue police? No. The hoax followed the DPD's well worn practice of framing convenient suspects. See the Erick Daniels case. The DPD is no more reluctant to lie about evidence to support a frame than the SBI lab or SBI field investigators. Look at Dwight Ransome. He misrepresented witness testimony to frame Allen Gell. The only thing that is really exceptional for the DPD was Gottlieb's willingness to violate the General Orders on a lineup. And of course Baker's willingness to try and explain that away. My question for the DPD is simple have the GO's been violated before with regard to lineups and how often. (I have the sense, though no solid proof, that Gottlieb was like so many at the SBI, regularly willing to violate protocol when need be to get a conviction.) That is the line of inquiry that needs to be pursued. Otherwise, everything I see from the DPD in the hoax is part and parcel of normal police practice in NC.

Walt-in-Durham
You may have swerved into an explanation of why Nifong seems so put out at his disbarment. He had done nothing that all the rest of the folks in the North Carolina "justice system" had done, and had been doing for years.

I still to this day believe that Nifong has been promised to be readmitted to the bar once the case goes away. In return, he has to keep his mouth shut.

Of course, that the entire system is disposed toward the framing of innocent people takes the issue to a whole different level.

From day one I have said that what Nifong and the other malefactors did could not have happened without a systematic and endemic statewide corruption that could allow such an infection to spread unchecked.
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chatham
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Quasi brings up some additional excellent points. The cops hanging around based on a non emergency 911 call. The cash crystal had. Many of us thought that it was way too much for a striper to be carrying around with her. Did she earn it by dancing or did she have it handed to her before the party. Again, what were the events before the party with crystal. She went to raleigh for some work? Was that $2000 or whatever the amount was worth of work? Would her driver leave her at the LAX party with that much money on her? Good discussion points from Quasi.

My bringing these issues up and trying to reconstruct the early events of the case are for generating discussion and thought only. I may be wrong, but it just seems strange to me that there was that much coincidence involved in this case becoming a rape/sexual assault after it was determined it was nothing. But now that we know how kind Durham cops and its legal system has been to crystal for a very very long time, it appears, to me anyway, that something was planned with crystal as the catalyst.

NYesq83 - thanks for pointing out the reason no blood or breath test would have been done.
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JSwift
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Walt: "Rogue prosecutor? No... Rogue police? No."

The biggest difference between this case and the many miscarriages of justice that preceded it is the inordinate amount of media coverage it attracted prior to trial. Most prosecutors and police do not seek attention when they are framing innocent defendants. Publicity increases the risk of being discovered.

The sheer arrogance of Nifong and the DPD is stunning. They acted as though they thought there would be no consequences if they were caught.
Edited by JSwift, Apr 10 2011, 09:20 AM.
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~J~ is in Wonderland
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~J~ is in Wonderland
JSwift
Apr 10 2011, 09:14 AM
Walt: "Rogue prosecutor? No... Rogue police? No."

The biggest difference between this case and the many miscarriages of justice that preceded it is the inordinate amount of media coverage it attracted prior to trial. Most prosecutors and police do not seek attention when they are framing innocent defendants. Publicity increases the risk of being discovered.

The sheer arrogance of Nifong and the DPD is stunning. They acted as though they thought there would be no consequences if they were caught.
Quote:
 
Most prosecutors and police do not seek attention when they are framing innocent defendants.


I agree with you 100% JSwift.

But........lets not for get Mikey was in a battle that he could NOT loose. If he lost the election he lost everything.
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Quasimodo

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They acted as though they thought there would be no consequences if they were caught.


That says it all about the Durham system.

And that it is permitted to continue to operate, with virtually no criticism from the media,
says it all about the local media. (They even endorsed Tracey Cline.)

(And we still have to discover whether or not there will be any genuine consequences
for anyone other than Nifong.)
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Quasimodo
Apr 10 2011, 09:40 AM
Quote:
 
They acted as though they thought there would be no consequences if they were caught.


That says it all about the Durham system.

And that it is permitted to continue to operate, with virtually no criticism from the media,
says it all about the local media. (They even endorsed Tracey Cline.)

(And we still have to discover whether or not there will be any genuine consequences
for anyone other than Nifong.)
Like Rae Evans said: "they picked the wrong families".
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JSwift
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~J~ is in Wonderland
Apr 10 2011, 09:39 AM
But........lets not for get Mikey was in a battle that he could NOT loose. If he lost the election he lost everything.
The media firestorm erupted--not with Nifong's dozens of interviews--but with the N&O's interview of Mangum. Identifying who set up that interview is critical to determining the origin of the frame.
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chatham
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JSwift
Apr 10 2011, 09:14 AM
Walt: "Rogue prosecutor? No... Rogue police? No."

The biggest difference between this case and the many miscarriages of justice that preceded it is the inordinate amount of media coverage it attracted prior to trial. Most prosecutors and police do not seek attention when they are framing innocent defendants. Publicity increases the risk of being discovered.

The sheer arrogance of Nifong and the DPD is stunning. They acted as though they thought there would be no consequences if they were caught.
We can all agree (maybe) that nifong did not know anything about crystals claims until some hours or days after the party. He got caught up in the advancement of gottlieb's claim that indeed a rape occurred. Nifong took advantage of that for his election. What a deal for him. A white on black crime just before a big primary. Whoever wins the primary wins the election, right? Gottlieb, I do not beiieve, considered any consequences from his actions because it is still well known the DPD protects its own. They could do no wrong. Shelton was the oddball the night of the party so he was slammed to the pavement and run over. Shelton almost ruined what gottleib wanted the most. A busted Duke party. (erase the tapes, get that rape claim out on the listserv, lie and make crystal the victim, find her money).

It appears to me that it was easy to set up some party in Trinity Park without everyone throwing a tantrum. After all, they all had had enough of Duke students there. The fact is that gottleib maybe had a reason to try to make something go wrong at the next party in TP because he had motive. He was transferred out of that district at the request of Duke.

Question. When the cops arrived at 610 Buchanan Blvd were they looking for money that crystal may have dropped (lost) outside and around the house? Like Quasi asked. What were they looking for on the grounds around the house based on a 911 call complaint of racial name calling?
Edited by chatham, Apr 10 2011, 12:20 PM.
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Baldo
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Nifong learned from his master Judge Stephens. The deck was fixed with Nifong as DA & Stepehns as the Judge

DPD & Prositution - I am convinced it is a part of the case.

Sgt Shelton - His problem he was an honest cop in a sea of corruption.

I will never forget Stephens tearing up at Nifong's Trial.
Edited by Baldo, Apr 10 2011, 12:51 PM.
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Concerned
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The 11 minute stop the cops made after the racial slur occurred before Kim and Crystal arrived at Kroger so the rape wouldn't have been reported yet. I can't seem to find where the police went back to investigate after the rape claim.

Here's a timeline:
http://johnsville.blogspot.com/2006/04/duke-lacrosse-rape-timeline.html



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JSwift
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As I recall, the Duke Police went to the house after Crystal had repeated her allegation at DUMC.They left when they found no one home. Because the house was Duke property, DUPD had jurisdiction. They had not transferred responsibility to the DPD at that time.
Edited by JSwift, Apr 10 2011, 01:31 PM.
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~J~ is in Wonderland
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~J~ is in Wonderland
JSwift
Apr 10 2011, 11:54 AM
~J~ is in Wonderland
Apr 10 2011, 09:39 AM
But........lets not for get Mikey was in a battle that he could NOT loose. If he lost the election he lost everything.
The media firestorm erupted--not with Nifong's dozens of interviews--but with the N&O's interview of Mangum. Identifying who set up that interview is critical to determining the origin of the frame.
For some reason, I was thinking Cousin Jackki arranged that interview?????
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abb
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John in Carolina has probably done more research and interacted more with the NandO editors than anyone on the subject of that news story. He and I agree it was absolutely key in precipitating The Frame.

Here is but one of his pieces.

http://johninnorthcarolina.blogspot.com/2008/11/n-reporters-falsehoods-undermine.html

Tuesday, November 25, 2008
N&O reporter’s falsehoods undermine editors’ “police report” claim
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foxglove

JSwift
Apr 10 2011, 01:31 PM
As I recall, the Duke Police went to the house after Crystal had repeated her allegation at DUMC.They left when they found no one home. Because the house was Duke property, DUPD had jurisdiction. They had not transferred responsibility to the DPD at that time.
What was the big meeting of Duke PD supervisors at the ER loading dock about? The meeting took place while Crystal was in the ER and before the SANE-in-training exam. At that point, it looked like a misdemeanor charge, yet a high level discussion ensued at the loading dock suggesting great importance to what was happening.
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nyesq83
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foxglove
Apr 10 2011, 06:43 PM
JSwift
Apr 10 2011, 01:31 PM
As I recall, the Duke Police went to the house after Crystal had repeated her allegation at DUMC.They left when they found no one home. Because the house was Duke property, DUPD had jurisdiction. They had not transferred responsibility to the DPD at that time.
What was the big meeting of Duke PD supervisors at the ER loading dock about? The meeting took place while Crystal was in the ER and before the SANE-in-training exam. At that point, it looked like a misdemeanor charge, yet a high level discussion ensued at the loading dock suggesting great importance to what was happening.
That meeting has always bothered me. Oh to know what they said, to have transcripts of the radio calls and other conversations precipitating it...
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