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Crystal Mangum Arrested Overnight - 4/3/11; Who didn't see this coming?
Topic Started: Apr 3 2011, 11:21 AM (27,929 Views)
MikeZPU

chatham: many interesting questions.

Good point about why was she asking Kim to put marks on
her at that point in the night, before Sgt Shelton showed up.

Given the state of mind she was in at that point, who knows
what she was up to.

I doubt she remembers much from that night, other than
a few minutes after they initially showed up at the house.
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chatham
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One other thought about those early times is the missing crystal driver. It also fits the uniqueness of events that night. Why did he not stay, not necessarily for protection, but to pick up crystal after the dance, He was no where to be found. hmmm, abandoned crystal, no wonder she got assaulted, bruised, scratched. Ever wonder why everyone was looking so hard at and hoping that those scratches on crystal were fresh? How many debates went on about those things?

There are other things but in toto they dont mesh very well into the story made up.

MOO
Edited by chatham, Apr 9 2011, 06:16 PM.
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foxglove

chatham
Apr 9 2011, 06:15 PM
One other thought about those early times is the missing crystal driver. It also fits the uniqueness of events that night. Why did he not stay, not necessarily for protection, but to pick up crystal after the dance, He was no where to be found. hmmm, abandoned crystal, no wonder she got assaulted, bruised, scratched. Ever wonder why everyone was looking so hard at and hoping that those scratches on crystal were fresh? How many debates went on about those things?

There are other things but in toto they dont mesh very well into the story made up.

MOO
Chatham's questions go to pre-planning of a set-up which did not turn out as planned.

Other questions which might point to a set-up:

Why did Crystal take Dave Evans shaving kit?

Why was her cell phone left behind-- found in the bushes as I recall?

Also, the whole issue of the fingernails and Crystal saying she works for the cops or something to that effect.
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sceptical

foxglove
Apr 9 2011, 06:23 PM
Chatham's questions go to pre-planning of a set-up which did not turn out as planned.

Other questions which might point to a set-up:

Why did Crystal take Dave Evans shaving kit?

Why was her cell phone left behind-- found in the bushes as I recall?

Also, the whole issue of the fingernails and Crystal saying she works for the cops or something to that effect.
The other question which has never been settled is the money Crystal claimed to have been stolen:

1) How much money did Crystal have that night before the party? How much more than the $400 she received for the lacrosse party?

2) What was the source of those extra funds? Payments for service from her "clients?"

3) What happened to the money after the party? We know that a couple of the lacrosse players started to take some of it but were dissuaded by Dave Evans (see Mike Gaynor on this aspect).
http://www6.renewamerica.com/columns/gaynor/070812

4) Why did Crystal blame Kim for allegedly stealing her money?

5) Why did Crystal request her money back form the police the day after?
Edited by sceptical, Apr 9 2011, 06:50 PM.
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Quasimodo

Quote:
 
Why did Crystal take Dave Evans shaving kit?


All I can think of is the William Kennedy rape accusation, where the accuser had something
from inside the house to prove she had been there.

Assuming there had been a set-up, and it didn't go as planned, and someone
handed it off to Gottlieb and told him to make it work anyway...

why didn't Duke object? Duke (presumably) had just objected to Gottlieb
and had him reassigned from contact with Duke students. (So Duke did have some
clout, after all.)

Then that same Gottlieb returns to head an investigation against Duke students--and Duke doesn't
insist on another officer?

And why ever is Gottlieb from Petty Theft assigned to the case, instead of someone from a sexual crimes unit?

(If any officers other than Gottlieb and Himan had been assigned to aid Nifong,
would they have gone along and helped rig the charges?)

Who in the DPD permitted Gottlieb to head up the investigation? And why?

Why didn't Gottlieb ever have to account to any superiors?

Who reviewed Gottlieb's work and approved his progress in the investigation? (After all,
the DPD is CALEA certified--which means that they officers KNOW the standards of
note-taking and evidence preservation and chain of command responsibility which
are supposed to be followed.)

Did the DPD want to wash its hands of the matter and let Nifong assume responsibility?

Lots of questions that go way beyond the issue of a single, "rogue" prosecutor who never
crossed the line before in 27 years of service.

(And why haven't the attorneys for other cases which Nifong handled been streaming forwards
to demand reviews for their clients? Any other place where a DA is found to have
hidden evidence, such demands are axiomatic.)

And why didn't the press leap on the "rogue prosecutor" explanation as nonsense,
and start an expose?

What is wrong with Durham? And what is the huge, dirty dark secret which everyone
seems afraid to try and uncover?

:confus:



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nyesq83
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Quote:
 
she was terrified a few minutes after starting

This is what she said after the fact, after the hoax was born (well before Baby Hoaxling was conceived).

Quote:
 
No blood test done on a drunk? No breathalyzer?

If I recall correctly, they do not/cannot by law test ALLEGED "victims of sexual assault" in NC (might be an exception, perhaps if the victim requests it, as an example - if she claims she was poisoned with an unknown substance).
Edited by nyesq83, Apr 9 2011, 08:25 PM.
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Joan Foster

Great post, Chatham...lots to think about. I just want to add one extraneous thought. Back around 2006., I had an appointment at one of the most prestigious medical centers in my state to see a hand surgeon. I waited months to see him. I have a hereditary disease in my hand called Duypretrens. I had ex-rays of my hand before meeting him. The first thing he asked me after he sat down was "Are you a victim of spousal abuse?"

I was there for a hereditary disease...my hand, not a bruise to be seen. I must have looked stunned because he apologized and said , "I'm required now to ask you these questions." He asked a few others in that vein. I don't remember what they were...he was rolling his eyes by then.

I thought of that when I read that Crystal was asked out of the blue...if she was raped? Was this required in NC too?

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chatham
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It is my understanding that it is not the policy of durham access to ask a question about sexual activity, assault or rape. The nurse did. I believe such questions can be asked in an ED of a hospital.
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Deleted User
Deleted User

I have a friend who many years ago had a child who walked in his sleep. At a vacation home the family owned, the young boy was sleeping in what might be described as a loft bedroom which had an overlook over the living room, dining room, kitchen area. The boy got up one night in his sleep and fell over the railings of the loft and injured his mouth and teeth. The boy was taken back to the city where the family lived and the doctor privately questioned the young boy about child abuse. This was in the early 70's. I think the law is requiring some of these questions today and they are offensive to many. You should hear the questions being asked of young pregnant women. I won't repeat them here, but you can use your imagination. I have been appalled by some of the requirements of the medical profession to impose procedures on patients with presumption that the patients no longer has the right to consent. Welcome to Obamacare.
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Deleted User
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Durham isn't the only place with rogue cops:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/security-video-shows-alleged-nypd-rape-cops-escorting-accuser-into-her-apartment/
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Mason
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Parts unknown
Truth Detector
Apr 9 2011, 09:59 PM
.
I think there were some Missing Tapes in Durham that were under protective order - but got erased anyway.

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Mason
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Parts unknown
Payback
Apr 9 2011, 04:24 PM
So nobody's safe?
.
I am.



.
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Quasimodo

Add:

a crazy 911 call --"not an emergency"--but just to report name-calling...

the 911 operator does not ask for the ID of the caller or for a callback number (standard procedure
and necessary in case they get cut-off)

and for this "non-emergency" TWO patrol cars are dispatched and arrive within TWO MINUTES (120 seconds).

So maybe they were nearby and had orders about Trinity Park.

But other than cruising by slowly to see if there was a crowd of students gathered there, what else were
they expected to do when they found no students were present? When, in fact, the house was utterly silent?

They spent ELEVEN MINUTES wandering around the property--when there was NO NOISE, and NO CROWD,
and nothing was happening. (And they weren't needed elsewhere?) How do they explain to their watch commander
spending eleven minutes at a dark, quiet house, because of an anonymous call that someone was called a name?

(They would NOT have been able to charge anyone, because they had no complaining witness and did not observe
the offense themselves.)

Curious. Maybe it's nothing. But still curious.

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kbp

Joan Foster
Apr 9 2011, 08:40 PM
Great post, Chatham...lots to think about. I just want to add one extraneous thought. Back around 2006., I had an appointment at one of the most prestigious medical centers in my state to see a hand surgeon. I waited months to see him. I have a hereditary disease in my hand called Duypretrens. I had ex-rays of my hand before meeting him. The first thing he asked me after he sat down was "Are you a victim of spousal abuse?"

I was there for a hereditary disease...my hand, not a bruise to be seen. I must have looked stunned because he apologized and said , "I'm required now to ask you these questions." He asked a few others in that vein. I don't remember what they were...he was rolling his eyes by then.

I thought of that when I read that Crystal was asked out of the blue...if she was raped? Was this required in NC too?



Official PC Rules

Durham, NC.

latest revision: as we see fit

Preliminary Questions:
(prerequisite to all questioning)

a. Were you raped….
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Walt-in-Durham

Rogue prosecutor? No. There is far too much evidence to indicate that Nifong was anything but a rogue. The Derrick Allen case shows how Tracy Cline and Freda Black used very similar tactics to railroad an innocent man and let a guilty one wander free. The only difference I can see between Allen and the hoax is the SBI was more than willing to participate in the frame of Derrick Allen but they couldn't find any evidence to help frame Reade, Colin and Dave.

Rogue police? No. The hoax followed the DPD's well worn practice of framing convenient suspects. See the Erick Daniels case. The DPD is no more reluctant to lie about evidence to support a frame than the SBI lab or SBI field investigators. Look at Dwight Ransome. He misrepresented witness testimony to frame Allen Gell. The only thing that is really exceptional for the DPD was Gottlieb's willingness to violate the General Orders on a lineup. And of course Baker's willingness to try and explain that away. My question for the DPD is simple have the GO's been violated before with regard to lineups and how often. (I have the sense, though no solid proof, that Gottlieb was like so many at the SBI, regularly willing to violate protocol when need be to get a conviction.) That is the line of inquiry that needs to be pursued. Otherwise, everything I see from the DPD in the hoax is part and parcel of normal police practice in NC.

Walt-in-Durham
Edited by Walt-in-Durham, Apr 10 2011, 07:36 AM.
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