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KC Johnson on Report Claiming Seligmann Owes Taxes; Detroit News Says IRS Lien for $6.5 Million
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Topic Started: Feb 25 2011, 08:58 AM (7,214 Views)
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Quasimodo
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Mar 4 2011, 10:29 AM
Post #76
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Summary of the above:
If forging a phony IRS lien document can be considered an attempt to defraud the United States (and causes it to futilely expend money and resources which it would otherwise not have spent) and therefore costs the US money--
then I would think such forgery falls into the categories above.
Of course, the IRS lien may have been the result of IRS incompetence (though since it is improperly made out, that seems unlikely).
But if so, firings are in order, as well as public apologies.
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kbp
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Mar 4 2011, 10:35 AM
Post #77
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- Quasimodo
- Mar 3 2011, 11:34 PM
It is not even signed by the agent, it was signed for the agent.
This indicates there were agents involved besides the low man on the pole who found some number problem.
Edited by kbp, Mar 4 2011, 10:36 AM.
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Quasimodo
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Mar 4 2011, 10:44 AM
Post #78
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It is not even signed by the agent, it was signed for the agent.
Good catch! (My eyes must be getting old...)
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This indicates there were agents involved besides the low man on the pole who found some number problem.
Or somebody was savvy enough not to want to forge an actual agent's signature???
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kbp
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Mar 4 2011, 12:06 PM
Post #79
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- Quasimodo
- Mar 4 2011, 10:44 AM
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It is not even signed by the agent, it was signed for the agent. Good catch! (My eyes must be getting old...)- Quote:
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This indicates there were agents involved besides the low man on the pole who found some number problem.
Or somebody was savvy enough not to want to forge an actual agent's signature??? ...or some person in a position like a secretary signed it, the IRS can claim it was an error, nobody is responsible for it.
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Baldo
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Mar 4 2011, 12:11 PM
Post #80
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Like I said my accountant says the IRS & the State make mistakes all the time on taxes. What he really said can't be written down.
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chatham
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Mar 4 2011, 08:01 PM
Post #81
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A few years back I received a form indicating that I had made an error on my taxes and I owed them several hundred dollars. I called and asked how this all happened and they asked me for my name and the ID number n the form. Then she said, oops sorry about that, just ignore the demand for money. It seems they transposed a number in my ID. I asked for aletter or something indicating that she said I did not owe anything and it was all a mistake. She said no I did not have to have one.
All this over a transposed number by an idiot.
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Quasimodo
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Mar 4 2011, 11:38 PM
Post #82
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It does happen, sometimes...
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http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/03/01/hunton_williams_investigation
TUESDAY, MAR 1, 2011 09:15 ET Democrats call for probe of top D.C. law firm Hunton & Williams was involved in a dubious plot to attack critics of the Chamber of Commerce BY JUSTIN ELLIOTT
(UPDATED) More than a dozen Democratic members of Congress will today call for an investigation of a top law firm and three technology companies who were exposed last month as having plotted to attack critics of the Chamber of the Commerce through dubious tactics like creating false documents and researching labor activists' families.
(snip)
UPDATE: And here's the letter:
March 1, 2011
Dear Chairman Issa, Chairman Smith, Chairman Rogers and Chairman McKeon,
(snip)
The published correspondence appears to reveal a conspiracy to use subversive techniques to target Chamber critics. The techniques may have been developed at U.S. government expense to target terrorists and other security threats. The emails indicate that these defense contractors planned to mine social network sites for information on Chamber critics; planned to plant “false documents” and “fake insider personas” that would be used to discredit the groups; and discussed the use of malicious and intrusive software (“malware”) to steal private information from the groups and disrupt their internal electronic communications.
Given evidence of their proposal to infiltrate computer systems, discredit and disrupt the operations of U.S. advocacy groups, Team Themis and Hunton and Williams may have conspired to carry out or previously carried out actions in violation of federal law, including:
· Forgery under 10 USC §923
· Mail and Wire Fraud under 18 USC §1341 and 18 USC §1343
· Fraud and Related Activity in Connection with Computers 18 USC §1030
The possibility that any one of these crimes was committed warrants investigation. It is deeply troubling to think that tactics developed for use against terrorists may have been unleashed against American citizens. The central questions at issue here are:
· Did the government contractors violate any federal laws?
· Are there adequate laws in place to protect American citizens from intrusive and/or unethical electronic surveillance tactics?
· Were government resources inappropriately used to target American citizens?
(snip)
Sincerely,
_________________________
Hank Johnson
Member of Congress
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Quasimodo
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Mar 5 2011, 07:50 AM
Post #83
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http://www.uslawbooks.com/books/forgery.htm
What is the definition of FORGERY?
(snip)
"Forgery is a crime when it includes the representation of handwriting of another and the act of uttering as true and genuine any forged writing knowing the same to be forged with intent to prejudice, damage, and defraud any person." State v. May 93 Idaho 343, 461 P. 2d 126, 129.
"Crime of forgery is committed when one makes or passes a false instrument with the intent to defraud, and the element of loss or detriment is immaterial." People v. McAffey, 182 Cal. App.2d 486, 6 Cal. Rptr. 333,337
"The false making of an instrument, which purports on the face of it to be good and valid for purposes for which it was created, with design to defraud any person or persons." State v. Goranson, 67 Wash.2d 456, 408 P.2d 7,9.
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TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART II > CHAPTER 47 > SUBCHAPTER X > § 923
§ 923. Art. 123. Forgery
Any person subject to this chapter who, with intent to defraud—
(1) falsely makes or alters any signature to, or any part of, any writing which would, if genuine, apparently impose a legal liability on another or change his legal right or liability to his prejudice; or
(2) utters, offers, issues, or transfers such a writing, known by him to be so made or altered;
is guilty of forgery and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
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Quasimodo
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Mar 5 2011, 07:58 AM
Post #84
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As noted, Schwarzenegger's lien was sent TO HIS HOME, as per IRS code.
Wouldn't a busy IRS office in Manhattan also have known to follow the same procedure?
The IRS has some public explanations to give. . .
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Quasimodo
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Mar 5 2011, 08:15 AM
Post #85
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Note this is sent to his RESIDENCE, as per IRS code:
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Rusty Dog
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Mar 5 2011, 08:48 AM
Post #86
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Has anyone tried calling the number for the Revenue Officer at the bottom of Reade's lien form?
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Quasimodo
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Mar 5 2011, 09:47 AM
Post #87
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- Rusty Dog
- Mar 5 2011, 08:48 AM
Has anyone tried calling the number for the Revenue Officer at the bottom of Reade's lien form? They'd probably only say that they can't discuss a private tax record.
But, it should be possible to ask if there is a revenue officer named Gonzalez who works there; and what his GS rating is.
(That much should be possible to find out.)
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Quasimodo
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Mar 5 2011, 08:32 PM
Post #88
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I haven't been able to find how this one turned out; it concerns (now congressman) Allen West:
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http://www.postonpolitics.com/2010/08/klein-starts-general-election-with-attack-ad-against-west-west-camp-says-klein-flat-out-lied/
With the polls barely closed from today’s primaries, the Klein campaign tonight is launching the first ad of the fall campaign — a 30-second spot slamming West for some financial issues originally reported here plus a claim that West had an $11,000 IRS lien filed against him in Marion County, Ind.
West campaign manager Josh Grodin says he’ll provide proof Wednesday that the document cited in the Klein ad is not valid.
Says Grodin: “It’s sad that Klein has chosen to play politics as usual at a time when our country needs principled leadership – especially considering the fact that he flat out lied about Allen ever having an IRS lien in Marion County. Let me say this again. Allen West, and his wife Dr. Angela M. Graham-West have never resided, nor owned property in Marion County, IN, and there was never a valid IRS lien placed upon them. Since Ron Klein approved this message, then Ron Klein owes the West family a formal public apology for this outrageous lie in his first campaign ad in 2010.”
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http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2010/08/lien-spat-between-west-and-klein-continues.html
August 27, 2010
Lien spat between West and Klein continues Lien-gate between Republican Congressional candidate Allen West and Democratic Congressman Ron Klein has continued throughout the week with dueling press releases from both sides.
The background: while elections offices were still counting ballots in Tuesday's primary, around 10 p.m. Klein's campaign released its first TV ad that juxtaposed West talking about the need for "individual responsibility" with a copy of an $11,000 IRS lien for unpaid taxes. The Klein campaign provided a copy of the lien which shows it is for an Indiana property in 2005. The ad also highlighted an American Express judgment for about $5,500 and liens on his Plantation home (county records show a few liens from his HOA -- each less than $1,000 and reflect the AmEx judgment.)
West's campaign doesn't dispute the American Express judgment or Plantation liens. But campaign manager Josh Grodin insists that West never lived or owned a home in Indiana and that the IRS lien was an error. He said earlier this week he would supply the documentation to reporters to prove it.
On Thursday, Grodin said he initially thought it would be easy to obtain that documentation.
"It has proven to be a lot more difficult than I originally thought," he said. Grodin said the IRS supplied West with a refund but he said he doesn't want to provide reporters copies because it contains personal information and he's confident he'll get the documentation showing the error from the IRS. But Grodin said the campaign's tax attorney said that it can take up to 60 days to obtain such information from the IRS.
We tried to get the information ourselves from the IRS but had no luck. Mike Dobzinski, IRS spokesman for Florida, said he could not discuss an individual taxpayer's circumstances to confirm or deny whether an IRS lien was an error.
Nice. A lie can go out, and it can take a couple of months to get it retracted; and the IRS will not admit it was a lie?
ETA: Best info I've found on it:
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2005: West and his Wife Held $11,000 IRS Lien. According to the Marion County Recorder, while West and his wife had an $11,081 federal tax lien with the IRS. Records indicate that the lien was released in April 2006. [Marion County Recorder, 11/17/05]
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Quasimodo
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Mar 5 2011, 08:38 PM
Post #89
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A dirty trick?
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http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/opinionzone/2010/09/26/democrats%E2%80%99-publication-of-allen-west%E2%80%99s-social-security-number-a-legitimate-issue/
The Democratic Party of Florida thought its mailer highlighting $11,000 in liens once placed against Allen West’s home would put the Republican candidate for Florida’s 22nd congressional district on the defensive.
Instead, the party may have created a problem for Democratic incumbent Ron Klein.
The party’s mailer, it turns out, included Mr. West’s Social Security number. He immediately accused the Klein campaign of dirty tricks that could make him and his family the target of identity theft.
The Klein campaign is at pains to point out that the party committed the error, not the official Klein campaign. Mr. West’s campaign says there’s no difference.
(snip)
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Bill Anderson
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Mar 6 2011, 08:04 AM
Post #90
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Simply making someone's SS number available is a federal crime. Interestingly, the feds did not prosecute or even investigate because, after all, the U.S. attorney's office there is controlled by Democrats. Nonetheless, what happened is a serious breach of someone's privacy, as I am sure that Mr. West had to get a new number quickly, and that creates a number of problems on its own.
I was not aware of this, so I am going to investigate myself, as I am tired of federal prosecutors going after non-criminals, but then deliberately closing their eyes to criminal activity that goes on right in front of them. Believe me, the feds have prosecuted and imprisoned for much, much less than what we see here, so any failure even to investigate is deliberate on behalf of the Obama administration.
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