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Blogging the healthcare debate.
Topic Started: Feb 25 2010, 12:43 PM (1,129 Views)
kbp

retiredLEO
Feb 25 2010, 08:49 PM
kbp
Feb 25 2010, 08:22 PM
retiredLEO
Feb 25 2010, 04:33 PM
kbp
Feb 25 2010, 04:20 PM
retiredLEO
Feb 25 2010, 02:42 PM
Now the Zero is saying that everyone will be forced to buy health insurance. So now for the first time in history you are forced to buy something just to be an American.
There are a number of "insurance" policies the federal government forces us to purchase through them, IF you hold a job working for others and/or have a taxable income.
I wish you would name some, a number of policies? The only insurance policy I pay for is my automobile insurance.
To name a few:
Unemployment insurance,
Federal Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance,
Health Insurance for Aged and Disabled (or Medicare),
State Children's Health Insurance Program,
Social Security Disability Insurance
These are all insurance the fed’s underwrite (if that term applies!). I’m not aware of any you are required to purchase from private carriers, with exceptions for that required to take part in business or driving a car on government roads…

Like I’d said before, I can’t find any lawsuits challenging the right of the government to force us to buy the insurance listed and they prolly just change it to a program provided you’d have to pay taxes for if such a lawsuit was successful.
They are all called taxes, the government under the 16th amendment has the right to tax us. I guess they will change this health insurance plan into a tax.
I stand corrected on the “Unemployment insurance”, it is the Federal Unemployment Tax Act.

FEDERAL OLD-AGE AND SURVIVORS INSURANCE TRUST FUND AND FEDERAL DISABILITY INSURANCE TRUST FUND


Health Insurance for Aged and Disabled (or Medicare)


State Children's Health Insurance Program


Social Security Disability Insurance
(The links are not to the actual "acts", that would be a long search to find al acts!)

Many are under or tied to what they call the SS Act, though that was not the name of it to begin with (the 0ld-age insurance act). I’m under the impression no acts have ever been challenged, for whatever the reason may be. All seem to be administered by the IRS, so one could call the insurance a tax if they choose to. I’m not sure if it was tied to the right to tax or what when they were passed.

They’re titled as “insurance”, FWIW.
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LTC8K6
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Lots of good stuff at Powerline on the healthcare debate. All good for Repubs...

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/02/025688.php

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/02/025687.php

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/02/025686.php

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/02/025685.php

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/02/025684.php
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kbp

Thanks LTC. That one on Paul Ryan was great to read. That man had all the details down to the penny, well I guess it was more like the billions we're screwed out of.
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LTC8K6
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You'd think they were pennies, the way Zer0 tosses them around...
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Baldo
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I was travelling today but got to listen to part of the exchange.

1) false teeth. That's dental insurance and the Democratic Healthcare bill does not cover dental. Apparently the Congresswoman doesn't know that.

2) Senator Harkin's logic that it is discrimination against the poor because they don't have Health Insurance was insane. BTW The same logic means the rich are discriminated against because they pay more taxes and the poor little or none.

3) Obama is over his head which is the real problem we face.
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LTC8K6
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http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9E3GBTO0&show_article=1

Quote:
 
News channels quickly lose interest in summit
Feb 25 06:21 PM US/Eastern
By DAVID BAUDER
AP Television Writer

NEW YORK (AP) - Barack Obama has long seem preoccupied with his presidency's dissection by cable TV talk show hosts. With his health care summit, he effectively became one.

Welcome to the presidential no-spin zone.

Obama put together a production of government in the television age, a health care reality show. He used his platform to direct discussion on the specifics of reform, cut off opponent posturing and make points of his own.

Yet he was only a host—not a producer—and television networks eager to cover it at first lost interest as time went on.

By 2:30 p.m., at the opening of the session's second half, Fox News Channel had shifted to its studio show (occasionally showing a mute picture of the summit on a portion of its screen) and CNN's Wolf Blitzer was reporting on poll results.

Both covered it fitfully in the afternoon. MSNBC moved on to the Finland-Sweden ice hockey game from the Olympics. PBS aired "Between the Lions."

Online streaming was the best option for people who wanted to watch the session uninterrupted.

As the program's host, Obama set an agenda and said he wanted to make clear where Democrats and Republicans agree and isolate the issues where there are differences. Democrats seemed intent on showing that in actual policy proposals, "we may be closer here than we really think," said Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa.

Obama struggled to get the politicians away from finger-pointing and toward any serious negotiations.

Like any opinionated cable host, Obama sometimes sharply dealt with those who angered him. One eye-opening exchange came when his 2008 election opponent, John McCain, criticized deal-making that bloated the current health care bill.

"We're not campaigning anymore," Obama told McCain. "The election is over."

On television screens, it harkened back to the presidential debates with cable news showing split screens of the two men. The exchange lit up the blogs.

"Genius!" wrote one Facebook member, Bruce Stevenson.

Tim McKay had a different view on Facebook: "I'm not John McCain fan, but the way President Obama just treated him at the health care summit was in my opinion, about as classless and unprofessional as they come."

The president also criticized Rep. Eric Cantor of Virginia, the House's No. 2 Republican, for piling a copy of the Senate bill on his desk as a prop to make the point that changes should be simplified. "Those are the kind of political things we do that prevent us from actually having a conversation," he said.

He cut off Senate GOP leader Mitch McConnell after the Kentucky senator checked his watch to note Democrats had more speaking time.

"There's an imbalance in the opening statements because I'm the president," Obama said.

Writing with an outsider's view, the Times of London wrote that "watching American politicians argue about health care can be seriously damaging to your health. Symptoms include migraines, extreme fatigue and sudden violent urges."

Cable TV producers have only a limited attention span, and the summit was barely an hour old before MSNBC was muting the sound and interviewing political strategists and talk show hosts about what they were seeing. In other words, they silenced the unusual sight of the nation's leaders in the same room publicly talking about a huge issue so they could present what their pundits were saying about them.

Fox spent the most time presenting uninterrupted coverage before the lunch break. Afterward, the network cut back sharply following it after reporting that its online poll found 90 percent of respondents saying the event was just "political theater."

"I don't think a single mind was changed by watching this," said Fox Sunday host Chris Wallace.

How quickly did Obama's summit become simply grist for the cable talk mill? During one break, CNN's Wolf Blitzer asked Roland Martin that if the summit were part of the Olympics, how would he score it?

"I wouldn't score it," Martin replied. "That's part of the problem. The important thing is that they're talking."

The day's host had his own review, asked how things were going while he walked from the Blair House to the White House during his lunch break.

"I don't know if it's interesting to watch on TV," Obama said, "but it's interesting being a part of it."
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LTC8K6
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It was so interesting being a part of it, that Zer0 looked bored out of his mind and dozed off at one point...
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Baldo
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I guess we will all think what we want to think, but IMHO Obama doesn't know how to conduct an effective meeting. Maybe more precisely he didn't really want an exchange of ideas.

Obama lives off his image. That is how he won his offices. It probably has been his most sucessful action growing up. Unfortunately as the President you have to accomplish things.

2 Years & 11 months more of him.
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cks
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I only heard the last little bit - when Obama was "wrapping things up". I find his claim disingenuous that there are all these people who are living totally off their dividends and that they should be made to pay for health care in a significant way. There are a large number of Americans with investments who either worked their whole lives (and thus paid taxes) to put money aside in the form of investments to pay for their retirement (that is what my in-laws did) so that they would not become wards of the state. There are others who saved and now use the money to send their kids to college (thus providing employment for large numbers of people) but are still working hoping that they might still be able to salt some money away for a possible retirement (which becomes increasingly unlikely) since it is unlikely that there will be much if anything in the way of social security (there will not be enough workers to fund the payments for all the baby boomers) and pensions, as we once knew them, are precarious at best (since they are dependent to a large extent on the vagaries of the stock market). Obama and his political cohorts know that they do not have to worry where there next check (and it will always be an extensive one) will be coming from just as they do not have to worry about health care since we, the taxpayers will be footing the bill. That whole summit was political farce - another colossal waste of the taxpayers money.
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Deleted User
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Obama appeared childish - not presidential. His arrogance could not be kept under wraps even for a few hours. I only wish John McCain had put him in his place with the comment about not being in campaign mode. That's the only mode Obama knows.
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Mason
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The (speaking) time differential is very telling.

The Democratic tactic of telling sad stories is old and very questionable.

I don't know how Obama is viewed any other way than arrogant and self-serving.

.
.
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Joan Foster

People often get done in by the little details that they never think through.

There was a certain symbolism yesterday, like at the end of the first Godfather movie...the moment when the young wife realizes what her husband REALLY is.

Seeing Obama sitting there with his two capos, Reid and Pelosi...was somewhat stunning in that way. It made you see the three of them as really ONE. An understanding that their methodology, mindset and moral code are pretty much the same. No more believing Obama is this inspirational young man about "change" and not entrenched in ...."the family "business."




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abb
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Joan Foster
Feb 26 2010, 08:59 AM
People often get done in by the little details that they never think through.

There was a certain symbolism yesterday, like at the end of the first Godfather movie...the moment when the young wife realizes what her husband REALLY is.

Seeing Obama sitting there with his two capos, Reid and Pelosi...was somewhat stunning in that way. It made you see the three of them as really ONE. An understanding that their methodology, mindset and moral code are pretty much the same. No more believing Obama is this inspirational young man about "change" and not entrenched in ...."the family "business."




As a student and proud practitioner of the Great Southern Culture, I should tell you of the three types of mistakes encountered in life.

1.) Dayum!: minor problems, like a backlash in your casting reel, spilling your coffee, etc.
2.) AwSh*t!: Significant issues, like remembering an expired driver's license as you pull up to a state police checkpoint, being told your AC compressor unit must be replaced, etc.
3.) OhMahGod!: Realizing the concrete foundation just poured is exactly one foot off from what it's supposed to be to match the equipment to be put on it, getting a letter from the IRS asking you to show up at the regional office with your paperwork, etc.

The look yesterday on their faces was the third.
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genny6348
Genny6348
Baldo
Feb 26 2010, 01:06 AM
I guess we will all think what we want to think, but IMHO Obama doesn't know how to conduct an effective meeting. Maybe more precisely he didn't really want an exchange of ideas.

That was the first think I thought of. The stated purpose was to bring both sides together and get input (?) - all stakeholders being heard. Community Organizers, as he claims to be one, are trained extensively in holding meetings. This is much of what they do . . . Ad nauseam.

He failed this training too, apparently. I've seen middle school students hold better stakeholder meetings.
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Baldo
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So funny abb! Expect it to get even worse as this Congress raises taxes, shoves its agenda down our throats, and marches in lockstep off the cliff.

I guess every 30 years the country, or in reality a new generation, takes a piece of the promised liberal pie and eventually realizes that beautiful image is filled with rotten apples.

They still won't face the tsunami of debt heading our way.

And Yes Genny. It was a dog and pony show without the dog or pony but just a lot of show.
Edited by Baldo, Feb 26 2010, 12:11 PM.
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