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| No good deed goes unpunished; The Babtist missionaries in prison in Haiti | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 10 2010, 10:22 AM (489 Views) | |
| Greg | Feb 10 2010, 10:22 AM Post #1 |
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I know there was another thread, now dropped to the 2nd page, that discussed this but my purpose is a little different with this so I'm starting a new thread to discuss it. Here is an editorial from the Washington Times arguing for the release of the 10 Americans who are being held in jail in Haiti pending kidnapping and criminal association charges. I confess I haven't read deeply into this, but this is liestoppers and I can't say I would necessarily trust the media coverage. I do have some questions: 1. Does anyone believe that the Babtist group had any sort of nefarious purpose to what they were doing or were they just trying to help kids they believed were orphans in the wake of this immense disaster? 2. Haiti and the Dominican Republic share a large-ish island in the Caribbean. How is it that only Haiti appears to have suffered devastation in the wake of this earthquake? You don't really hear anything about the Dominican Republic having any problems. Are they? 3. In the linked editorial above, Hillary Clinton, our Secretary of State, was quoted as saying this is a matter strictly for the Haitian Judicial System (such as it is) to deal with. Is that an acceptable response under the circumstances? Americans are sending money, supplies and relief workers to help the people of Haiti. Shouldn't we expect our government to go to bat for the American relief workers down there to make sure their rights are protected? I realize our Constitution doesn't apply down there. But the conditions in which these missionaries are being held would have qualified as torture if we were talking to a liberal about GITMO detainees a year ago. To me, this is beginning to seem like an outrage that our government doesn't appear to be working to free these relief workers. Anyone have information that would shed a different light on this? |
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| brittany | Feb 10 2010, 10:26 AM Post #2 |
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Some of these people are 18 and 19 year old teenagers (some are with their parents). While I realize this is sensitive, how can the govt. ignore not one but 10 people living on Froster Flakes and Pringles? Reminds me of the British couple left twisting in the wind. Pirates rape women. |
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| Greg | Feb 10 2010, 10:38 AM Post #3 |
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Good point, brittany. I forgot to mention that. I was trying to find ages and genders of the members of the group but got sidetracked. Anyway, yeah, we're dealing with some teenagers here, in jail, apparently, because some bureaucrats in Haiti got their knickers in a twist because the presence of all these relief workers implies that they can't handle their own business. And so, it appears, they're going to take out their frustration on an available target. And our government says "it's a matter for the Haitian legal system and we won't interfere." To me, that's not an acceptable reply. |
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| cks | Feb 10 2010, 10:40 AM Post #4 |
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The case of the British couple is different. They were sailing for their own pleasure in waters that were known to be dangerous. While there plight is unfortunate (tragic for them) I do not waste much sympathy for them becuase they were stupid for deciding to sail in those waters. As far as the situation with these Baptist missionaries, they were there to try to do good - while they were not aware (or so they claim) of the rules and regulations that had been recently put in place about children who either were or it was claimed that they were orphans - the fact is that they were trying to facilitate care for these children. The State Department, to my mind, has a responsibility to intervene in this case and to insure that they are being treated well and that whatever is being done in what appears to be a nation that is bereft of any semblance of law and order, is done lawfully and with an eye to securing the safe passage of all of these people back to the US as quickly as possible. |
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| foxglove | Feb 10 2010, 12:15 PM Post #5 |
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Hilliary's lack of interest in the welfare of American citizens incarcerated in a Haiti is political, IMO. The fact that these missionaries are Baptist and from Idaho mean "red state" to Clinton and the Obama administration. I remember all the media attention about and, IIRC, Bill Clinton going to North Korea to free the sister of an actress, Lucy Lu and a couple of other journalists. Mia Farrow also weighed in which might have had a dampening effect on giving this situation the attention it deserves. "UNICEF goodwill ambassador Mia Farrow has criticized as 'deplorable' attempts to take children out of Haiti illegally after last month's devastating earthquake." http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2010/02/04/3855504-mia-farrow-criticizes-illegal-haiti-adoptions At the very least the U.S. government should make sure that the missionaries are well treated and and the young ones are released as they cannot be held to be as responsible due to their age. I hope this situation gets more attention. |
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| comelately | Feb 10 2010, 12:38 PM Post #6 |
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I am of two minds on this one. Everybody (and his dog!) knows that Haiti is a hell-hole. Attempts to help inhabitants of hell-holes tend to be dangerous - since how did a hell-hole become one in the first place? I would not go there (without some sort of diplomatic immunity, anyway), and certainly would not take my family there. Does it mean that I would leave the Haitians to fend for themselves? I just don't know. But if it meant having my family at the mercy of Haitian bureaucrats - I suppose the answer is "yes".
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| retiredLEO | Feb 10 2010, 12:48 PM Post #7 |
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The odd part, it was reported that when these people went for their hearing, they had the local lawyer, but no one from the US Embassy. The reporter went on to say that in most case, when Americans are arrested for a serious crime overseas, a representative from the Embassy (State Department) wll also attend. Hillary seems to care less, not only will she do nothing, she won't let anyone do anything. In a situation like this we hold all the cards, Obama could just order everything stopped, no more Hatian relief, or at least threaten it. Edited by retiredLEO, Feb 10 2010, 12:50 PM.
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| cks | Feb 10 2010, 01:19 PM Post #8 |
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I would think so - which then leads to this question - why is the US taking a hands off policy - has the State Department looked into this and has found that there is more to this than is being reported? |
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| Quasimodo | Feb 10 2010, 01:40 PM Post #9 |
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I think the admin. wants to avoid looking like it is oppressing Haiti by dictating to its judicial system (if any) and wants to avoid criticism (from Europe and elsewhere) that we are just taking over the island. Hence, we will be even more distant from our citizens there than usual. (But who cares, it's what the world thinks of us that counts, right?) Word of practical advice: NEVER, NEVER, NEVER count on the assistance of the US State Dept. when you are overseas. If anything, the Dept. will be embarrassed that YOU have caused a problem in fostering good relations with ________ (where _______ may have thrown you into prison unlawfully and be torturing you even as they speak). YOU, a petty American citizen, are not worth the trouble it will take to help you, compared with needs of the BIG PICTURE of foreign relations; etc. |
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| retiredLEO | Feb 10 2010, 01:49 PM Post #10 |
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The leader of this group, Laura Silsby, has a history of financial problems and some minor legal problems. CBS/ AP) Laura Silsby, the leader of 10 U.S. Baptist missionaries facing kidnapping charges in Haiti, is no stranger to legal and financial troubles. The 40-year-old Idaho businesswoman convinced members of Idaho's Central Valley Baptist Church to follow her dream of building an orphanage in the Dominican Republic for Haitian children. But her other business and personal ventures reveal a checkered history. Silsby has faced 14 legal complaints for unpaid wages in connection with her online shopping business, Personal Shopper. Employees won nine of those complaints and Silsby was ordered to pay $31,000 in wages plus another $4,000 in fines, according to the New York Times. Haiti Earthquake - Latest Coverage Haiti Quake: How You Can Help She's also had at least nine traffic citations in the last 12 years including four for failing to register or insure her car. Last July, Silsby defaulted on the mortgage for her Meridian, Idaho. But she used that same address to register a nonprofit, the New Life Children’s Refuge - the orphanage operation linked to the current kidnapping charges. But those who know her don't doubt her motives, noting that her problems usually stem from a lack of organization. "In my heart, I think she probably went down there with good intentions, to help people that were in trouble, but it's a lack of foresight and planning, once again. She did that in her business life and it seems to follow her in her personal life," Bryan Jack, an employee at Personal Shopper currently suing Silsby for back pay, told CNN. Silsby, a divorced mother of two young children, now finds herself in the middle of an international legal firestorm. The group faces kidnapping charges for trying to remove 33 Haitian children from the country without documentation. At least 22 of those children were found to still have parents. Edwin Coq, the lawyer assigned to defend the missionaries, said Friday that Silsby knew she couldn't remove the youngsters without proper paperwork, but he characterized the other nine missionaries as unknowingly being caught up in actions they didn't understand. "They were naive. They had no idea what was going on and they did not know that they needed official papers to cross the border. But Silsby did," he said. snip http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/05/world/main6178794.shtml |
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| Greg | Feb 10 2010, 02:28 PM Post #11 |
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I have been informed from a source whose knowledge can't be verified that the Haitian government is viewing this earthquake like something out of Rahm Emanuel's playbook: No crisis should go to waste. Evidently, the Haitian government is taxing relief agencies for the goods they're bringing into the country, from what I've been advised. And they're also taxing the crap out of anyone who wants to take children out of the country. They see this as a cash cow and the Babtist group didn't bribe the right people (or bribe at all) for the opportunity to remove Haitian children to a different country and so the Haitian gov't is making examples of them. If that's true, the US government needs to come down in force on these lowlifes and shake some sense into them. |
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| brittany | Feb 10 2010, 02:37 PM Post #12 |
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Was Silsby arrested? Is Silby one of the 10? |
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| LTC8K6 | Feb 10 2010, 02:41 PM Post #13 |
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Assistant to The Devil Himself
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The media has painted this as a religious kidnapping... So you can see why no politician wants to touch it... |
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| brittany | Feb 10 2010, 02:42 PM Post #14 |
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http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/01/ten_us_missionaries_held_in_ha.html The 18 year old girl was with her mother. The 19 year old boy was with his parents. Silsby was arrested. Edited by brittany, Feb 10 2010, 02:42 PM.
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| retiredLEO | Feb 10 2010, 02:46 PM Post #15 |
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Silby was the person that put the group together. She was the leader, that is why the media is reporting this, the rest in the group had no idea, what they were doing. She did this same sort of thing back in Idaho. Edited by retiredLEO, Feb 10 2010, 02:47 PM.
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