| 20 Questions (from KC) from 2006; revisited | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Jun 23 2009, 09:44 AM (2,397 Views) | |
| Joan Foster | Jun 23 2009, 12:47 PM Post #16 |
|
Let's ask this another way. If the standard set for SANE's is 30 to 60 minutes...is an exam by a non licensed Trainee 6 hours later ...blue ribbon care at DUMC? |
 |
 
|
| Joan Foster | Jun 23 2009, 12:58 PM Post #17 |
|
"Actually, Levicy has never made a public statement and all this stuff came from NIfong, the liar and cad. He also demonstated the CHOKE." @@@@@@ In a case with this much attending publicity, why would Levicy allow herself to be misquoted as to the "blunt force trauma" and "signs and symptoms of the rape she described?" And misquoted for months and months? Even her Boss Arico misrepresnted her if she did not "own" this assertion. No, she was pushing this right along with Nifong IMO. She could, at ANY time, have called any reporter, any defense atty and clarified. She DID NOT. She changed medical records and her story to keep Nifong's Hoax breathing. She made VERY CLEAR statements to the Defense Attys that showed she was on board completely. If Nifong was putting words in her mouth...words thast could steal the lifetimes from three innocent kids...what does it say about her morality, her integrity...that she stayed quiet? Who does that? These families, these kids were in the midst of an ordeal as painful as any she'd ever encounter in medicine. There is a special place in He*l for Nurse Lecivy.My opinion only, of course. Edited by Joan Foster, Jun 23 2009, 01:00 PM.
|
|
|
|
| sceptical | Jun 23 2009, 01:08 PM Post #18 |
|
Ben Himan did keep case notes. See http://liestoppers.blogspot.com/2007/07/inv-ben-himans-typed-notes-part-1-march.html |
|
|
|
| Quasimodo | Jun 23 2009, 01:08 PM Post #19 |
|
http://liestoppers.blogspot.com/2008/05/our-collective-voice-allegations.html D. Duke University Hospital erred in delaying Crystal Mangum’s SANE exam for more than 4 hours until after Levicy arrived. for the morning shift on March 14, 2006 , instead of calling in the on-call SANE nurse. (DUMC was reported to have had a cadre of 14 trained SANE nurses and had a policy requiring one to be on duty at all times.) |
|
|
|
| Joan Foster | Jun 23 2009, 01:11 PM Post #20 |
|
I think DUMC needs to be asked if this is "blue ribbon care" at DUMC? Yes or no? Why did they think assigning a non-licensed SANE trainee 6 hours later was sufficient in this case? Why? What was their thinking? Tell us more? Was there no "mental health emergency at least? Raped by 3, 12, and 20 men? If they believed Mangum...and if Levicy's description to Gottlieb was accurate...how do they justify being so far off the standard set by the profession itself? And if Levicy's description was NOT accurate...how do they justify that it wasn't FIRMLY corrected.... with 30 years of three kids LIFETIMES at stake? |
|
|
|
| Sherp | Jun 23 2009, 01:11 PM Post #21 |
|
The exam was done by a Physician with at least ten years of Doctor School. Along the way, Crystal was evaluated by three other Physicians, any of whom could have done the Rape Kit. I don't know why they choose not to do it but I am absolutly positive they are doing them now or DUMC has now scheduled ED Nurses with SANE credentials on duty 24/7. Its not like a "heart attack" was waiting. Nurses are not Doctor and Doctors don't give a hoot and holler about nurses or their opinions. The Nurse completed a little simple printed check list. I have yet to see any evidence that notes, check list, etc are been changed by Levicy. I have seen lots of accussations. If in fact, this should prove to be true, I will be the first to apologize and eat crow. Until then, I am waiting for the evidence. Edited by Sherp, Jun 23 2009, 01:17 PM.
|
|
|
|
| Joan Foster | Jun 23 2009, 01:11 PM Post #22 |
|
Very interesting. 
|
|
|
|
| Joan Foster | Jun 23 2009, 01:21 PM Post #23 |
|
Here's a good review. Remember Levcy is on record in her own words... with the Defense Attys. http://www.law.duke.edu/shell/cite.pl?71+Law+&+Contemp.+Probs.+155+(autumn+2008) 1. The SANE Process In his spree of spring 2006 public statements, Mike Nifong consistently returned to one theme: the findings of a specially trained nurse who had examined Mangum confirmed that a sexual assault had occurred. [*pg 162] 1. 1. March 29th, Abrams Report, MSNBC: "There is evidence of trauma in the victim's vaginal area that was noted when she was examined by a nurse at the hospital."38 2. 2. March 29th, WRAL: "My reading of the report of the emergency room nurse would indicate that some type of sexual assault did in fact take place."39 3. 3. March 30th, The Early Show, CBS: "The victim was examined at Duke University Medical Center by a nurse who was specially trained in sexual-assault cases. And the investigation at that time was certainly consistent with a sexual assault having taken place."40 (LEVICY NEVER REFUTED THESE. Thirty years of three innocent kids lives...what would YOU have done?) In the last two decades, most elite hospitals have hired or trained sexual-assault nurse examiners (SANE) -- usually experienced nurses who undergo special training to treat patients who claim they have been raped. That Nifong could cite findings from such a seemingly impartial figure appeared to powerfully corroborate Mangum's story. In the Duke lacrosse case, however, SANE nurse Tara Levicy provided what could have been a case study in how not to handle a sexual-assault complaint. Still a SANE-in-training on the night that Mangum arrived at Duke University Medical Center, Levicy had to ask a resident, Dr. Julie Manly, to perform the physical examination of Mangum, which revealed "diffuse edema in the vaginal walls" and no anal trauma. Levicy then conducted a detailed interview of Mangum, which formed the basis for her report. In the interview, Mangum claimed that she had last had intercourse one week before (a statement subsequent DNA tests would disprove). Mangum denied digital penetration or penetration by a foreign object (a statement she would later contradict). She thrice denied that her assailants had used condoms. She asserted that she had been penetrated vaginally, orally, and anally, and that at least one of her assailants had ejaculated. She added that one of her assailants said he was getting married the following day. (No one on the lacrosse team was getting married or was engaged to be married.) Levicy also photographed the only "injuries" that she documented during the examination -- nonbleeding scratches and bruises on Mangum's knee and heel. Even though Dr. Manly actually performed Mangum's physical examination, no one from the Durham Police Department or the District Attorney's office ever interviewed the doctor. Instead, they regularly consulted Levicy. Defense attorney Doug Kingsbery, who represented Collin Finnerty, later speculated that "after speaking with Levicy, the authorities felt like they [*pg 163] had the 'perfect' witness, and did not need to interview Manly. It could only have gone downhill from there."41 In these interviews, Levicy increasingly expanded upon the version of events presented in her March 14th report. On March 16, 2006, she said that Mangum had exhibited symptoms consistent with rape.42 Five days later, she told Sergeant Gottlieb that Mangum had experienced "blunt force trauma."43 Finally, after the North Carolina State Bar filed a complaint against Nifong for withholding DNA evidence, Levicy dramatically changed her story about what Mangum had told her the previous March -- in ways that suggested that the DNA evidence Nifong was accused of withholding might not have been significant.44 Levicy said that Mangum had been uncertain whether her "attackers" had used condoms.45 And Levicy described herself as being unsurprised that no matches to lacrosse players' DNA had been found, including from their epithelial cells, since "rape is not about passion or ejaculation but about power."46 In short, Levicy repeatedly changed her story in ways that bolstered whatever theory of the crime authorities were then expressing. Yet few in the media (and even fewer among the general public) had the thorough understanding of SANE procedures necessary to critique Levicy's work. In the end, the best reporting about the SANE nurse's performance came not from the traditional media but from a specialized blog published by Kathleen Eckelt, a thirty-year veteran of nursing who trains SANE nurses in her home state of Maryland. In a series of posts on her blog, Forensics Talk, Eckelt raised serious procedural and substantive questions about Levicy's conduct. She doubted the procedural propriety of Levicy's March 21st assertion that Mangum had experienced "blunt force trauma," a diagnosis nowhere mentioned in Levicy's report from a week earlier.47 "Everything is supposed to be documented," according to Eckelt, "at the time of the exam." "We've all been taught that, according to the courts, 'If it's not written, it's not done.'"48 Eckelt also provided context for Levicy's March 16th statement that Mangum's symptoms were consistent with sexual assault -- a declaration to [*pg 164] which Nifong repeatedly referred in his public statements about the case.49 "Experienced SANE nurses can make a conclusion as to whether any injuries are 'consistent with' sexual assault," Eckelt noted, but the "key word here is experienced."50 A SANE still in training and with less than two years' total service as a nurse, Eckelt added, would lack the qualifications to make such a statement.51 In several posts, Eckelt explained why an experienced SANE nurse would have recognized that the only "injury" diagnosed in the Manly exam ("diffuse edema of the vaginal walls") was inconsistent with a sexual assault in Mangum's case.52 Smoking, sex within twenty-four hours of the vaginal examination, frequent sex, and tricyclic anti-depressants or other medications with properties similar to them, such as Flexeril, all could cause diffuse edema of the vaginal walls.53 All four conditions applied to Mangum. Perhaps most impressively, Eckelt used her myriad contacts in the field to bolster her doubts about Levicy's findings. She obtained statements from two veteran SANE nurses, a registered nurse (R.N.), an emergency-room R.N., two insurance investigators, an arson investigator, three doctors who dealt with sexual-assault cases, a forensic scientist, and a retired matron of a forensic hospital in England.54 Each shared concerns about a figure of Levicy's training and experience making judgments about the evidence, and the type of evidence to which Levicy had attached such importance.55 The emergency-room R.N. bluntly told Eckelt that "the sheer experience needed to make judgment calls simply comes with time and time only. For any nurse manager to subject a new nurse to this is beyond the pale . . . unprofessional in the extreme."56 Eckelt's interpretation of events, which gradually reflected the mainstream media's approach to Levicy, was vindicated in April 2007, when Roy Cooper dismissed Levicy's findings. "No medical evidence confirmed [the accuser's] stories," the North Carolina Attorney General declared in his April 2007 report.57 "The SANE based her opinion that the exam was consistent with what the accusing witness was reporting largely on the accusing witness's demeanor and complaints of pain rather than on objective evidence."58 [*pg 165] |
|
|
|
| sceptical | Jun 23 2009, 01:23 PM Post #24 |
|
We don't know who made the decision to delay Crystal's SANE exam until the dayshift arrived, and who assigned it to Levicy. The surmise has been that they did not take Crystal seriously. She was examined by 3 MDs and 4 nurses. Apparently, they did not believe her protestations of pain when she did not have any of the physical signs of pain. They allowed her to sleep off her stupor on a gurney in the hallway. I trust they would have acted differently had they believed her. |
|
|
|
| Sherp | Jun 23 2009, 01:32 PM Post #25 |
|
Nurses do not "treat" or make "diagnosis" anytime, any where. That is a Doctor job or PA who work directly and is supervised by a Physician. If Nifong lied about the nurse's credentials, he surely lied about everything else, including but not limited to the Choke. Sceptial, its not the Doctor 's job to believe or not believe a patient's tale of woe but to exam them physically and treat their signs and symptoms. Its not about belief or non belief of the "story" but the physical symptoms. An exam was done by three Doctors so who needed a SANE exam by a nurse? The nurse assists the Doctor and follows through on their orders, just like in ER. There was nothing to treat and the Rape Kit is not a high priority but a simple proceedure to be done at some point in time. Was Crystal low priority? You betcha, particulary as she was passed out, obviously not in pain (cause she was sleeping/passed out. Folks in pain are screaming at the top of their lungs) and Crystal was not even complaining. And if folks are not acting up like they are crazy, there is rarely a Mental Health Exam. See, this is the problem. In an effort to elevate the SANE job, its been made to look like they are the equivelant of Doctors and their not. Edited by Sherp, Jun 23 2009, 01:55 PM.
|
|
|
|
| Q.A. | Jun 23 2009, 02:18 PM Post #26 |
|
Quasi. Re your Post #3, above, belatedly. It is odd, isn’t it? IME nurse’s note-keeping is generally very good. Nurse’s notes have been decisive in many cases I have been involved-in over the years. The fact that some health-care providers do not do things they are supposed to do, or do things they are not supposed to do, are often high-lighted by the nurse’s notes with such clarity that, as a result, negligence complaints may settle, even without depositions, let alone trial. Edited by Q.A., Jun 23 2009, 02:18 PM.
|
|
|
|
| sceptical | Jun 23 2009, 02:43 PM Post #27 |
|
A lot of what happens in an Emergency Department is triage-- what patients need immediate attention and who can wait, who needs to be admitted to the hospital and who can be treated in the ED, etc. So it is part of the task of ED physicians and nurses to assess patients-- both as to the urgency of their problems, and then to diagnose and treat. The point I was trying to make was that the Duke Hospital ED staff triaged Crystal as someone who could wait hours. This is a judgment based on their exams of her, but also their belief in the history she gave them. She was not credible in a medical sense. Physician are trained to asses the reliability of patients' stories. I agree that the Duke ED and the SANE examiner were deficient in their diagnosis and treatment of her complaints-- they did not determine and treat the cause of her pain (likely psychiatric) and they did not determine and treat the cause of her white vaginal discharge (likely yeast). |
|
|
|
| Acc Esq | Jun 23 2009, 03:05 PM Post #28 |
|
Joan's insight to me is unrelated to SANE procedures. The excellent point that I discerned for the first time is that DUMC objectively did not treat her medically as a patient who presented suffering from blunt force trauma or having been brutally assaulted. Whatever the role of a SANE nurse and whatever the timing, DUMC's objective conduct when CGM first presented thoroughly impeaches Levicy's after-the-fact conclusions (or the rest of the criminal prosecution for that matter). The alternative is that DUMC was utterly incompetent. These are the kinds of inconsistencies that are powerfully developed and exploited in a courtroom.
Edited by Acc Esq, Jun 23 2009, 03:24 PM.
|
|
|
|
| Joan Foster | Jun 23 2009, 03:20 PM Post #29 |
|
That's it! Thank you...I've been struggling to make it clearer. 
|
|
|
|
| chatham | Jun 23 2009, 03:31 PM Post #30 |
|
quite interesting discussion. But I have some questions. From SHERP post #9 - Crystal looked at by three doctors. The question I have is who asked 3 different doctors to look at crystal and why were 3 doctors asked to look at crystal? Unless doctor #1 said he could do nothing to solve her problem call doctor 2, I will assume doctor #1 determined nothing was wrong with her. Why another doctor would be asked to take charge of crystal and finally a 3rd doctor be asked to take charge of crystal in very strange. It appears on the surface that someone was trying to actually get a doctor to declare that a rape may have happened. When that did not happen was when the cops decided that nothing happened. Who would be the nurse who would call 3 different doctors to examine crystal. ID that person and that may connect a lot of dots. From Joan foster post #11 - About what levicy may have said to gottlieb. One can ask did levicy really say what she is claimed to have said to gottlieb or did Aricao approve what gottlieb wanted levicy to tell him and then levicy went along? Right now there is no concrete evidence that what levicy said was what levicy said (but see below) From Joan foster post #23 - Levicy never refuted these Could levicy legally refute publicly what nifong said she said? Was she told in no certain words to keep her mouth shut? Was she told she could not refute those lies because of HIPPA and if she did then patient privacy will be compromised? Of course the possibility is she lied about what she saw and Arico went along with it. Makes more sense to me to suggest that Arico tell levicy what to say than to have Arico defend what levicy said knowing it was not true. Additionally, levicy really bypassed the requirements for becoming a certified SANE. She did not have the required or recommended amount of nursing education and experience nor the required amount of ED experience. I dont know if Arico was in the ED that night and I dont know if Arico was called that night. But I do know that Arico did not supervise this situation very well. But if Arico was there that night, it just might have been her that asked 3 different doctors to examine CGM and it might have been Arico who said wait for leviciy and it might have been Arico who told Levicy not to say anything publicly how wrong nifong was and it might have been Arico who allowed gottleib to say what he ended up saying. Who is in charge at Duke ED when an alleged rape victim is brought in for examination? Which nurse is first on the scene. |
|
|
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · DUKE LACROSSE - Liestoppers · Next Topic » |
3:07 AM Dec 5
