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ObamaCare; All HealthReform News / Comments
Topic Started: Jun 17 2009, 12:52 PM (1,679 Views)
LTC8K6
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Assistant to The Devil Himself
http://finkelblog.com/index.php/2009/06/22/take-two-aspirin-and-call-obama-in-the-morning-if-your-tumors-not-gone/

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Drugs instead of surgery. One MRI instead of three. That was the frightening foreshadowing of health care rationing that a senior Obama administration official offered on GMA today.

HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius was part of a troika of Obama officials discussing the prez’s health care plan with Diane Sawyer. Sebelius of course depicted the rationing not as a reduction in health care services, but as the provision of smarter, better services. You can believe it if you want.

KATHLEEN SEBELIUS: Nobody’s going to tell your doctor he or she can’t do a procedure. But there’ll be a set of protocols that we know at the end of the day actually produce a better result for you, and are less intrusive. I don’t know a single patient who if they thought they could have one MRI instead of three, if they thought a drug regime would work as well surgery wouldn’t say, well, don’t cut me open.

(Video at link)

Just as disturbing as the prospect of rationing is the word on who will make the decisions. In response to a question from Sawyer as to who will decide what treatment is necessary, chief Obama health care adviser Nancy-Ann De Parle stated that “clinicians” will make the decisions. Not doctors, “clinicians,” a flexible term that for all we know means someone on Henry Waxman’s staff.

Be afraid.
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Kethra

One cannot reform the american health system unless you look at every aspect of it. Just insuring 50 million people will do nothing but put us further in debt.

Most hospitals and care organizations are FOR PROFIT. If you force them to take on even more debt, the response will be to cut in other areas because the guys at the top and the stockholders are not going to let Obama cut into their little piece of the pie.

Everyone wants to talk about the nursing shortage. Ok lets talk about the why. Experienced nurses (the key word is experienced) are retiring/tired of it all. We have droves of baby nurses coming in but they are unsuited and unqualified for many of the "open" jobs. They are being put in those jobs anyway (shades of Tara Levicy) with sometimes disastrous results. Many Physicians I know are leaving the hospital environment for greener pastures. The ones where they don't work a 14 hour day and on call for 72. The ones where they make a nice living which after 8 years of school, 4+ years of residency they think they deserve. They are indeed entitled to a good living. That leaves the rest of us scrambling to fill in the gaps with Nurse Practitioner, Physician Assistants and other "advanced" but not doctor level folks. It also means that along with the 9+ patients a nurse has responsibility for, the hospitals no longer hire LPN's or nurses aides. So the nurse not only has to do her job, she also takes on the other eliminated positions. It has gotten so bad, I have gotten on my knees and mopped floors, cleaned toilets and done whatever needed to be done. All in the name of "saving money". Please translate that to profit margin.

Healthcare is a business. One that makes A LOT of money. At Swedish Medical Center in Denver, nurses are being fired for whistleblowing about incompetency. The staffing is so bad now (lack of experienced nurses), that like many hospitals they are putting inexperienced nurses into high level jobs because... they are cheaper! Three senior nurses blew the whistle and got fired for it. They are now suing.

Obama CANNOT fix our healthcare system by simply offering a paltry insurance plan. It is a huge bunch of businesses and each of those delivery systems must be addressed. The broad stroke of socialized medicine can't work either without a complete retooling of all delivery systems from Pharmacutical to gauze.

It is a narrow view that thinks simply giving more people insurance will fix anything. I invite you all to come down to the ER on any given night and see what parades through. We are now used as a Doctors office or worse. Got a sniffle and no insurance? come on down. I had a woman not long ago, sit for 4 hours waiting to be seen. We bring her in and she holds up a finger and says, I have a hang nail that hurts. I am not kidding. BY LAW we had to look at the finger, make sure there was no infection (there wasn't just a tiny red spot) and give her "education". So she wasted the time and resources of a nurse and a doctor, a technician to clean the room after she had gone, the swabs we used, products to "clean" the area, ect. Insuring these folks will simply bankrupt us. They use the ER for attention, for mental health for anything you can think of other than what it was intended for.

If ONLY the people who needed the ER came in, you could run the whole thing with 10 beds a doctor and 2 nurses.
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brittany

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If ONLY the people who needed the ER came in, you could run the whole thing with 10 beds a doctor and 2 nurses.
People are using the ER as their primary care physician.
Edited by brittany, Jun 22 2009, 08:48 AM.
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LTC8K6
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Yep. If you think the uninsured don't get medical treatment, you have not been to an ER in the last 10 years at least.
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Baldo
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Until you put back personal responsibility into Health-care nothing will get better. Insurance, while necessary in a modern civilization, is the problem. The idea somebody else pays the bill is what causes problems.

I like the Safeway & Whole Earth like Health-care systems because they put personal rewards & penalties into mix.

As for profit, I don't consider it a dirty work. Even in "Non-Profits" the doctors, nurses, and staff work for profit. There are not many Mother Teresa's around anymore and I don't expect them to work for free, especially after spending years getting trained. The question is whether they provide good service at a reasonable price.

I watched over the decades as Health-Care Insurance, along with all Insurance, take a larger and larger piece of the pie. I don't have the answer, but I know if the Feds solve the problem we get get worse care at a higher cost.
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Kerri P.
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In Springfield, MA they only have two ER's and when you go to either one of them you better get ready to wait to be called to been seen. You can wait as long as eight hours. I'm not joking.

One of these hospitals is a level one Trauma Center so the wait at this hospital on Thurs - Sun is a true b@tch. The only way you are getting into these hospitals any faster is if you are being brought in by the EMT's. After you get to see the doctor depending on the tests he / she orders it could be another 6 - 10 hour wait.

So all and all you could spend about 18 hours in one of the Springfiled, Mass. ER's.
Edited by Kerri P., Jun 22 2009, 10:35 AM.
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Baldo
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If MassPlan is the model for Health-care reform we are in Big Trouble.
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Lodge Pro 345
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.
Even though Obama told crowds and special interest groups, if you like the doctor you have now, you'll be able to keep that doctor - and if you like the health plan you have now, you'll be able to keep it -- however, the white house says now that those statements were Not meant to be taken literally.

How many do you think heard his initial statements live or rebroadcast in some form versus the people that heard the leak out the back door that he "didn't mean that literally."

Sounds like an important detail to me.
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~J~ is in Wonderland
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~J~ is in Wonderland
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/national_world&id=6878617

ABC to air Obama health care special
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chatham
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Bumper sticker I saw toady on an SUV. Actually it was displayed high up on the side of the back window.

OBAMA
January 20, 2009
The Start of an ERROR
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Lodge Pro 345
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chatham
Jun 22 2009, 07:21 PM
Bumper sticker I saw toady on an SUV. Actually it was displayed high up on the side of the back window.

OBAMA
January 20, 2009
The Start of an ERROR
.
I'd buy that!

:toast:
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Lodge Pro 345
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.
Obama uses as evidence that he needs to change the entire health care system - that Medicare and Medicaid are soon going to go totally broke.

I would use Medicare and Medicaid as examples of why a Gov't foray into taking over Medicine for everyone is a really bad idea.

What Government agency is a shining example of efficiency and customer satisfaction?

The Post office? The IRS? Social Security? Public Schools?
Fannie? Freddie? HUD?

Obama is so far off from my belief system that I have a hard time even understanding his statements, I can't believe he's going there with some of these examples.

Much of his stuff is pie in the sky salesman stuff. We are supposed to believe this will be the first Government-run enterprise in decades that will save huge amounts of money by their sheer efficiency? We are supposed to believe one of the big attractions of this system will be very little paperwork (for providers too)?

.
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longstop
longstop
Saw one in Texas; "My Lab is smarter than Obama"
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Lodge Pro 345
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.
Maybe I missed it in all the propaganda, but I don't recall hearing anything about the fact that Obama only covers a relatively small amount of uninsured people - so a lot of uninsured people will remain. Those costs will still be there.

.
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longstop
longstop
Its all about CONTROL.

The Statist want to be able to get us from cradle to grave.
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