| Plaintiffs’ Response to Nifong’s Motion to Dismiss | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 31 2009, 12:32 AM (8,065 Views) | |
| sceptical | Feb 3 2009, 10:49 PM Post #106 |
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Another outstanding post by jswift! There was a convergence of interests which led to the frame-up. Levicy was motivated by her radical feminist ideology and inexperience when she was hoodwinked by Crystal, and then encouraged by Gottlieb to embellish her findings. Gottlieb was looking for every opportunity to get back at Duke students for his banishment. Himan sought experience and to show his talents in his first big investigation. I am still unsure of what roles Jeff Lamb and Cheif Chalmers played in ceding control to Nifong. |
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| Tidbits | Feb 3 2009, 11:06 PM Post #107 |
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I am not in the main discussion. I noticed this while skimming it. This is picky, but... Whatever happened on April 4 may be evidence of a frame on April 4, but says nothing about whether or not there was a frame earlier. |
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| Tidbits | Feb 3 2009, 11:24 PM Post #108 |
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Sometimes the discussion is too much examination of details for my taste, although details can appeal to me. My view is simple. It is the same as when I first read about the Fake Rape, and knew at once it was a Fake Rape. It is simple. 40 odd intelligent college students from various backgrounds were at a party. Some were fans of CSI and similar shows and movies. Some knew about DNA. 1. If there was sex, the DNA evidence would prove sex. The only issue would be consent. A false claim that there was no sex would destroy credibility. Such a claim is dumb. Dumb. Dumb. Someone would know that. Someone would tell the others. Maybe one could be that dumb, but not 40. 2. If there was no sex, a claim that there was no sex is smart. It would work. DNA's absence would confirm it. The instinct to tell the truth is the smart thing to do. That is what would happen. They would say, "nothing happened" because nothing happened. They said nothing happened. There was no rape. There was no sex. It is simple. It is simple enough for me, for the cops, for the DA, for the judge, for the University. The fact that they said nothing happened proved that nothing happened. The DNA would confirm that. Anyone who claimed there was, or might be, a rape, was saying something so absurd that they were either dumb, dumb, dumb, or trying to pull off a wildly implausible frame. How can you frame someone for rape when the DNA will show that there was no sex? Dumb. But, in Durham, they "can get away with anything." Or so they thought. Frame? You betcha. No other plausible explanation exists. Yes, CSI. At the time of the party, when jurors underwent examination to determine biases etc,, there almost always included CSI fans. Prosecutors and defense lawyers knew this, and they knew that it changed the process. Prosecutors had to try to convince the jury that, in real life, there rarely was the scientific evidence like on TV. Jurors might acquit if there was no scientific expert to prove guilt. So, prosecutors knew. Defense lawyers knew. Cops knew. Did 40 college kids all miss knowing about CSI and DNA? No. No chance. So, hearing their defense, I knew at once there was no sex and no rape. Case closed. Edited by Tidbits, Feb 3 2009, 11:29 PM.
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| Baldo | Feb 4 2009, 12:38 AM Post #109 |
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Samiha claims she first was tipped off the the alleged assault by reading it on the Trinity Park List-Server. She said that on her LaxCast interview. Gottlieb sent out that e-mail early morning March 17. Samiha was on the Police beat in Durham for the N & O Why do I now call it Frame/Hoax? Because it was an attempt to frame any Lacrosse Player and either the DPD, Nifong, and others were pushing false information about the events from the very start when they made their first comments. Information they knew was false. It was an attempted Frame on the players and a Hoax on the general public. I will go over my Project Blue Book files to give a better description of why I believe these events started earlier than March 24 and that they go directly back to March 15, 16, and 17. You deserve a more complete answer. Edited by Baldo, Feb 4 2009, 01:08 AM.
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| abb | Feb 4 2009, 05:29 AM Post #110 |
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Swifty, you have some very good points. Here you said:
I would contend that if any honest investigator pursued a case BEYOND the point you describe, that is the classic definition of a "Frameup." http://dictionary.reference.com/search?db=dictionary&q=frame-up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frameup I suppose I've read too many Mike Hammer books and watched too many Rockford Files episodes to be a dispassionate commentator, but it is interesting to see how many of the fictional examples cited in the Wiki entry parallel what we've all lived through. I would agree that at that point the conspiracy wasn't as widespread as it would later become. But there is no doubt Gottlieb tried to hang anything he could on the Laxers, whether it was true or not. My friend, that is a Frame. It ain't an aw-shucks, or an oops, or "mistakes were made" or any of those things. It was an on purpose attempt to put someone in jail for something they didn't do. |
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| Joan Foster | Feb 4 2009, 09:05 AM Post #111 |
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I agree with this post. But I have a question...when did the Police Chief remove himself from the case (with pay) to care for his "sick mother?" To me, this is someone getting out of Dodge because, although he hasn't the courage or backbone to do what's right, he hasn't the stomach to be a particpant in the Frame. Did he object and was told to leave until it was over ... and that enabled the Framers to install Nifong as the reliable "Inspector D.A.? " This is the point where there must have been collusion among the powers that be..that this WAS going to trial...no matter what means it took to get it there. Anyone NOT on board had to get out of the way. Like good "mafiosos"...they took care of their own...as they did with Chalmers. This is when a plan between the parties was in place. This is when the real Frame began. When the Police Chief had to be replaced to get done what needed to be done. There HAD to be conversations, orchestrations, collusion at this point. But I also believe that, except for the zealot feminist in the emergency room, who was hellbent to create her own medical "frame" to collaborate Crystal's lies...there was no "frame" at the very first. Just the ugly confluence of actions of morally challenged and inept individuals creating a racial flash-flood in a PC race-and-class -obsessed city. |
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| abb | Feb 4 2009, 09:09 AM Post #112 |
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If I may pick at this nit just a bit... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frameup A frameup or setup is an American term referring to the act of framing someone, that is, providing false evidence or false testimony in order to falsely prove someone guilty of a crime.[1] It is likely to derive from the English word frame meaning to cause someone innocent to appear guilty by "putting the person in a picture frame of suspicion". |
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| abb | Feb 4 2009, 09:10 AM Post #113 |
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If I may expound a bit. From the start way back on FR, I have said this thing was intentional. That is to say it wasn't a "hoax," or a "mistake," or an "error." There is a big difference. That is why I lobbied so hard 2 1/2 years ago to have it referred to as a Frame rather than a hoax. Words mean things. It goes to the Supreme Court decision from last week that said immunity doesn't apply when ministers of justice do wrong things. And every action that we have examined for the past three years indicates Levicy, Gottlieb, Nifong, Bell and all the rest knew that there was no rape and no crime. Yet they did what they did anyway. To me, its the heart of the case. Edited by abb, Feb 4 2009, 09:16 AM.
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| Quasimodo | Feb 4 2009, 09:28 AM Post #114 |
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How in the world did Gottlieb get the case assigned to him? How does one reassign cases in the DPD (or in LE generally)? Do superiors have to sign off on something like this? The DPD had just transferred Gottlieb out of district 2 and away from Duke students, presumably in answer to Duke's complaints about the way he treated their students. Now, within a couple of weeks, they agree to transfer him back to a major case involving Duke students? Who had to agree to this? And why? (Is an officer who has just been removed because of complaints, the one you would assign to handle a sensitive case involving Duke?) And who supervised him? (Given the above circumstances of his removal, wouldn't he have been a candidate for close supervision on this case?) And who left him on the case, when it would have been possible for the DPD to remove him and let others handle the investigation--at any time during the case. And there would have been no risk of public disapproval, since the investigation would still have been continued, only with different officers in charge. Why did the chief take an unheard of leave of absence? Why did the DPD turn the case over to Nifong? Why didn't--or couldn't--the chief have taken charge, removed Gottlieb, and practiced hands-on supervision over the biggest case of his career (or in Durham's history)? (When else have satellite trucks camped out in front of the courthouse?) What chief wouldn't relish being on the cover of Newsweek or the subject of an interview about how he solved the Duke rape case? IOW, it appears that someone higher than the chief was running the DPD. And no one in the police chain of command could remove Gottlieb from the investigation. (JMOO, of course.) Edited by Quasimodo, Feb 4 2009, 09:29 AM.
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| Quasimodo | Feb 4 2009, 09:34 AM Post #115 |
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And if that were so (speculation, of course), then who put Gottlieb on the case in the first place? (Pure speculation); but Crystal had time to phone her handlers, and tell her where she was, and why she wouldn't be sharing her portion of the night's take with them. They would have been upset. But once they learned she was crying "rape" with some Duke students, the wheels might have started to turn. Is the underworld in Durham so far removed from the DPD that they exist in two different worlds? We know the DPD has had past accusations of running prostitution from their own HQ. And that for two years' running there were no arrests for prostitution in Durham (2004-2005) by the DPD. Odd, that... Who knows where all that might lead? (But it wasn't just Nifong, IMHO) (JMOO, as always, and just for discussion purposes.) |
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| chatham | Feb 4 2009, 10:05 AM Post #116 |
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Wasn't nifong the anonymous source for the N&O article by ruth sheehan on the 27th? I think she indicated that he was. It is speculation that he was the anonymous source for other N&O articles very early on in the case also. If he only found out about the case on the 23rd when he "accidently" found the NTO info on the copy machine late that day, and was assigned to the case on the 24th and was first updated by himan and gottlieb on the 27th then how could he have gotten all the information he needed to become an annonymous source for the N&O article that was published on the same day he was being updated? There may not have been an organized frame by that early time but someone was sure nailing the boards together. |
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| Baldo | Feb 4 2009, 10:06 AM Post #117 |
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We all agreed Addison remarks to the local media on March 24 started an explosion of false and malicious press about the Lacrosse team. It did not spring from nowhere. It came from earlier actions that started and moved to a larger and larger venue. Addison, not the normal DPD spokesman, declared a victim was "sodomized, raped, assaulted and robbed." He said they were not going to stop until they found out who was responsible. It was a choreographed series of Newspaper and TV reporters who were briefed by him. Going “Live” outside the Lacrosse field this Hoax received a massive assist from the media. Who briefed Addison? It is stated that it was Himan. I am doubtful we have heard the complete story. Addison declarative statements were wrong. He stated them as fact. Addison had to know he was stepping way over the line, he must have sought and received senior approval. Here was Addison E-mail he sent out On Monday, March 13, 2006 about 11:00pm, the Duke University Lacrosse Team solicited a local escort service for entertainment. The victim was paid to dance at the residence located at 610 Buchanan. The Duke Lacrosse Team was hosting a party at the residence. The victim was sodomized, raped, assaulted and robbed. This horrific crime sent shock waves throughout our community. Durham CrimeStoppers needs your assistance in solving this case. Although, we have received many calls expressing concerns and anger about this incident, we have not received any calls which will allow us to assist in resolving this case. We are asking anyone who has any information which will allow the Durham Police Department to make an arrest in this case, please contact Durham CrimeStoppers at 683-1200. You will notice it was the same wording as the Police flyer that was being handled out as late as April 8. This was to be a series of violations of the entire team’s civil rights. From all accounts the responding officers considered these charges baseless on March 14. We have gone over Sgt Shelton, Officer Sutton, Inv Jones reports or beliefs that these charges had no merit. Shelton even bellowed loudly at DUMC that she was lying. We have heard the opinion of Kethra that Crystal fooled no one in the ER that night. Sceptical’s meticulously detailed two articles covers the events at DUMC I believe Ekstrand's lawsuit & UPI lays out the basic facts. This case was going to be closed on March 14 or 15, yet Gottlieb gets command over it. It is my understanding that Inv Jones did not asked him to take it over but rather Gottlieb grabbed it. He took over this case when he is not a sexual assault investigator. If this case was to proceed over Inv Jones’s correct decision it belonged at DPD HQ with their experienced sexual assault investigators. Gottlieb had just three weeks before been transferred out of the Duke Watch over his aggressive harassment of Duke students. This was known to his DPD superiors and to Duke's Administration. He had to have approval to take over than case. Who gave Gottlieb the cover? That is one of the questions that need to be answered. Who had the power to overrule Jones and proceed with what the Police thought was false? It is here where the we see start of the pursuit of the Lax Team. It is why on the night of March 20 Ekstrand summons the lacrosse players and parents to his office and they pull an all-nighter (pg 50 UPI) He had discovered by chance talking with Dan Flannery about his noise violation that Gottlieb was running the case. He immediately knew the danger the Lax team was in. Ekstrand’s dossier on Gottlieb tells the story of an out of control cop. He predicted exactly what we now know what was to happen. It was first shown on March 16 with Gottlieb's & the DPD behavior at the search warrant. I do not dismiss his actions as anything but a man on a mission, not a police investigator searching for the truth, but a effort to find something. By the end of that March 16, 17 what do we now know? Crystal had no facial bruising the result of a 30 minute brutal beating and rape. Crystal couldn't ID anyone. According to Himan Levicy confirmed injuries consistent with rape. What I do not know is where is the SANE kit & the SAE it contains? Was it still in the hands of DUMC, Duke PD as it was stated to whom Levicy gave it to, or was it in the hands of the DPD? As for the captains they co-operated without counsel, gave full statements, agree to DNA sampling, and offered to take polygraphs. Their statements written separately are consistent and in fact Dave Evans’s account is the most detailed narrative of what actually happen. Remember Gottlieb had access to Shelton's belief & Jones decision to not pursue the case and Crystal's criminal record. Everything, except Levicy's comments to Himan which we do know know exactly, was pointing towards a false accusation. Yet Gottlieb goes on public list-servers and makes the case they are investigating at sexual assault at 610. Why? More on that later. Edited by Baldo, Feb 4 2009, 10:21 AM.
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| abb | Feb 4 2009, 10:08 AM Post #118 |
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That is what John in Carolina alleges. See his post on that from a few days ago. http://www.johnincarolina.com/ Sunday, February 01, 2009 Plaintiffs will question Nifong's press contact before Mar. 27, 2006 |
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| Lodge Pro 345 | Feb 4 2009, 10:16 AM Post #119 |
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. I think Gottlieb was feeding reporters in the early days - maybe others were too. I don't doubt John in Carolina. I spoke to reporters that told me they were getting info from Gottlieb - strictly off the record info. Then a station blew Gottlieb's cover when he contacted them asking for photos of the party. On March 15th, Samiha Khanna runs an unrelated article and she quotes Sgt. Mark Gottlieb in that article. |
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| abb | Feb 4 2009, 10:19 AM Post #120 |
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Speaking of Samiha, has anyone heard from her since she left the NandO? |
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