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Plaintiffs’ Response to Nifong’s Motion to Dismiss
Topic Started: Jan 31 2009, 12:32 AM (8,068 Views)
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Yes, she changes her story and she gets a sweet deal.

IIRC, she violated the terms of her probation 5 different ways. She showed she had no intention whatsoever of paying restitution - making it likely the Judge would not be kind to her when she returned to the Courtroom, however, she returned to the courtroom with a friendly Judge and the Durham D.A. doing her bidding.
Like Crystal and Clakki, they overlooked the tax issue with Roberts too.

I think we are all on the same page - but for any readers (not posters), I want to note when Police gets stories that conflict among their own witnesses and the story keeps moving and there are credibility issues - they don't proceed with the case.

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MikeZPU

darby
Feb 1 2009, 10:47 PM
MikeZPU
Feb 1 2009, 12:30 PM

So, who do you believe? Kim, whose story basically matches the
team captains' version of events, and has no reason to lie. Or Mangum:
whose version of events is so wild that it goes well beyond the limits of
believability, who stole a cab and almost ran down a fellow police officer just a
few years earlier, who filed a gang rape claim previously, who admits
to drinking a 24 oz bottle of beer before she arrived at the party, and
who he should have determined was taking various drugs at the same time.

As Prof Anderson says, Himan is a lying cop.
Kim really does change her story, several times... If not to the cops at least to the media...

Duke Case: Kim Roberts version 6.0

Hat Tip: The Johnsville News
I was specifically referring to the version of the story Kim Roberts gave
to Himan on March 22. Anything she said after that day is tainted because
Gottlieb and Clayton served a warrant on her, which was the first step in
getting her to change her story.

Versions 1 and 2 are consistent, "version 1" was just a brief phone conversation
which preceded the extensive in-person interview with Himan ("version 2")
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Baldo
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Gottlieb & Himan running the investigation which had the city full of MSM media and on the cover of Newsweek. Himan, Chief Investigator, Ben's Operation, never ran a rape investigation. Two months an investigator.

We have pointed this out numerous times. Yet Durham's Senior command leaves this investigation in the hands of a rookie investigator.

In examining this case what was not done is as important as what was.

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MikeZPU

MikeZPU
Feb 1 2009, 11:11 PM
darby
Feb 1 2009, 10:47 PM
MikeZPU
Feb 1 2009, 12:30 PM

So, who do you believe? Kim, whose story basically matches the
team captains' version of events, and has no reason to lie. Or Mangum:
whose version of events is so wild that it goes well beyond the limits of
believability, who stole a cab and almost ran down a fellow police officer just a
few years earlier, who filed a gang rape claim previously, who admits
to drinking a 24 oz bottle of beer before she arrived at the party, and
who he should have determined was taking various drugs at the same time.

As Prof Anderson says, Himan is a lying cop.
Kim really does change her story, several times... If not to the cops at least to the media...

Duke Case: Kim Roberts version 6.0

Hat Tip: The Johnsville News
I was specifically referring to the version of the story Kim Roberts gave
to Himan on March 22. Anything she said after that day is tainted because
Gottlieb and Clayton served a warrant on her, which was the first step in
getting her to change her story.

Versions 1 and 2 are consistent, "version 1" was just a brief phone conversation
which preceded the extensive in-person interview with Himan ("version 2")


Interesting that Ed Bradley was basically able to get the truth out of Kim.
Edited by MikeZPU, Feb 1 2009, 11:48 PM.
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darby

MikeZPU
Feb 1 2009, 11:47 PM


Interesting that Ed Bradley was basically able to get the truth out of Kim.


Yes and NPR's own Juan Williams lead her down a completely different path...


There's no telling what she'd have admitted given enough interviews. I really hopes she's brave enough to disclose the true terms of her sweet bail/bond deal if given the opportunity.
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MikeZPU

darby
Feb 1 2009, 11:56 PM
MikeZPU
Feb 1 2009, 11:47 PM


Interesting that Ed Bradley was basically able to get the truth out of Kim.


Yes and NPR's own Juan Williams lead her down a completely different path...


There's no telling what she'd have admitted given enough interviews. I really hopes she's brave enough to disclose the true terms of her sweet bail/bond deal if given the opportunity.
We can hope!

This goes to what Baldo pointed out above relative to what
was not done during this so-called "investigation."

Ed Bradley did what Himan should have done early on:
question both Kim and Crystal about inconsistencies between their
respective statements (well, Bradley only had access to Kim.)

If you read Himan's notes: he took their statements and that was
basically it. He never indicates that he ever questioned Kim or Mangum
about what they said in their statements, despite the glaring inconsistencies.

When I was reading the different versions of Kim's story (thanks for
that link!), one of her comments reminded me of something.

Kim said that she was the most sober of any one at the party.
Recall that Mangum admitted to Himan that she drank a 24 oz bottle
of beer before arriving at the party and was on some prescription drugs.
At the same time, both Kim (in her initial statement) and the team captains
described Mangum as being impaired.

SO, if Gottlieb and Nifong were truly just simply interested in finding
out who was at the party, why not conduct the April 4 powerpoint photo
presentation video with Kim? That way, any later ID by Mangum would
not be biased.

If they truly believed there was a rape, then the trauma would certainly
further affect Mangum's ability to recall who was at the party, so again Kim
should have been the person to conduct the April 4 powerpoint lineup with.

Transparent lies.
Edited by MikeZPU, Feb 2 2009, 01:52 PM.
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pjr

MikeZPU: I recommend watching a few episodes of COPS to answer your question.

Crime involving the underworld street characters regularly isn't pursued, because the scum involved are natural liars, and usually don't want to help the cops out even when they are victims themselves. They're used to scrapping for a living without the use of legal protection, and would be in danger in the long run if they cooperated, given how they develop their incomes and who they would associate with after they "ratted".

Crystal only got as much face time with a detective because a respected institution like DUMC lent reliability to her fable. A more standard approach was the one she received from the earliest cops who disbelieved everything she said, not only because of what she was saying, but who she was.

Why would any cop waste their efforts on Crystal or Kim, other than to take basic statements or any IDs? For purity's sake, one could go through the motions and browbeat them into inconsistencies galore, but what would that prove? It wouldn't prove that a crime DIDN'T occur, people like Crystal lie in those circumstances too.

It's obvious what these guys were doing in the first week or so: getting the DNA to verify the story that DUMC was telling them. Period. They tried a couple of times to get something plausible out of Crystal, but they understood from the first meeting that she was being more than just difficult - she was being who she is.

This is not a claim that Himan was acting in good faith at the time or once the biologicals came back negative. However, for him to waste time or damage what could have been an actual crime case made no sense whatsoever ... Himan, an honest cop, whoever.
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Tidbits

The future:

Immunity decision #1 by trial court. 2009.

Appeal of ". 2010-11. Application for writ to SCOTUS. 2011-12. If granted (case accepted) 2013.

More immunity motions, decisions, and appeals. 2009-2015.

Discovery TBA.

Other Motions from time to time.

Jury trial. 20__.

Appeal. 20__+

All give or take a few years.

(If Al Gore is right, trial is after the world ends.)
Edited by Tidbits, Feb 2 2009, 02:15 PM.
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chatham
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One item always bothered me. After reading gottliebs deposition for nifongs disbarment I am wondering about one item he said. Why would gottlieb be ordered to write up notes to give to the durham city manager to present to the city council early on in the case. Why would baker want to be informed by gottlieb and not by one of gottliebs supervisors?

Does the city council ask to be updated on all criminal cases in their city. Was someone from city hall really running the case side by side with nifong? If I was to be something other than PC I would say because someone at city hall new crystal and may have even had interactions with her and maybe even a phone number on her cell? Or maybe city hall was storing her toys so she would not lose them?
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abb
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chatham
Feb 2 2009, 02:26 PM


Does the city council ask to be updated on all criminal cases in their city. Was someone from city hall really running the case side by side with nifong?
No.

Yes.
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~J~ is in Wonderland
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~J~ is in Wonderland
chatham
Feb 2 2009, 02:26 PM
One item always bothered me. After reading gottliebs deposition for nifongs disbarment I am wondering about one item he said. Why would gottlieb be ordered to write up notes to give to the durham city manager to present to the city council early on in the case. Why would baker want to be informed by gottlieb and not by one of gottliebs supervisors?

Does the city council ask to be updated on all criminal cases in their city. Was someone from city hall really running the case side by side with nifong? If I was to be something other than PC I would say because someone at city hall new crystal and may have even had interactions with her and maybe even a phone number on her cell? Or maybe city hall was storing her toys so she would not lose them?
chatham, what is that plant you are growing? :jump:
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MikeZPU

pjr
Feb 2 2009, 02:01 PM
MikeZPU: I recommend watching a few episodes of COPS to answer your question.

(snip)

Why would any cop waste their efforts on Crystal or Kim, other than to take basic statements or any IDs? For purity's sake, one could go through the motions and browbeat them into inconsistencies galore, but what would that prove? It wouldn't prove that a crime DIDN'T occur, people like Crystal lie in those circumstances too.
It was a rhetorical question. I wasn't looking for an answer.
We already know the answer. I was just showing how ridiculous it
was for Nifong and Gottlieb to claim that April 4 session with Mangum
was not really an ID session. They claim that they were just trying to
find out who was at the party, so that's why they were not binded to the
standard protocols governing photo ID line-ups. Again, I ask: why not go to Kim
for all the reasons that I listed above.

In response to your question
Quote:
 
"Why would any cop waste their efforts on Crystal or Kim, other than to take basic statements or any IDs?"

The Special Prosecutors spent several hours questioning Crystal over multiple meetings.
The results of their discussions with Crystal were a major component of the Report issued by the NC AG.

In response to your question, the AG Report specifically points out that when the SPs
questioned Crystal, they quickly realized that this was the first time that she was
asked any hard questions about her statements to the police.
Edited by MikeZPU, Feb 2 2009, 03:48 PM.
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Baldo
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1) Why waste time on Crystal? Because she was the accuser!
2) Why waste time on Kim? She was the witness with her the longest!
3) Why waste time on Jason Bissey? Because he was the only other non lax witness
4) Why waste time on Angel, the Kroger's security guard? The person who saw her 30 minutes later!
5) Why waste time talking with Reade and Collin? They were accused!
6) Why not pulled in Brian Taylor? He drove her!
7) Why not go out to the Platinum Club? She performed there both preceding and post March 13!
8) Why didn't Nifong or any member of the DA Office interview her for 8 months?

Over and over I could go on and give you examples of things that were not done or delayed many months.

My question is why wasn't Crystal's meeting with Himan on March 28 disclosed in discovery? After they were informed there wasn't any DNA that was going to match any Lax Team members

Why wasn't McFadyen full e-mail released which would show exculpatory evidence?

Why were the DNA tests from SBI delayed? Why wasn't it released to the public to calm down the community or at least reporters on March 28?

I believe we will find that the DPD had met with Crystal more than what has been disclosed. They were "working" the case, keeping no notes of their activities. Working her story to ofuscate the overwhelming lack of forensic evidence from the public.

No, I don't believe the DPD or Nifong ever acted in good faith for the above reasons. I don't believe there was ever a real investigation.

Again I mention on March 17, Himan & Gottlieb knew what happened. It was clearly stated in Evan's statement.

BTW Why talk with the physician Dr. Manly who actually performed the SANE Exam?


Edited by Baldo, Feb 2 2009, 06:55 PM.
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Baldo
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Why have a non standard memory enhancer on 4 April? One that violated DPD guidelines. One that was ordered by DA Nifong and cleared by Captain Ripberger? One that omitted fillers?

Why erase the side command channel supervising radio tapes from March14

Why protect the cell phone privacy of Crystal?

Why refuse Cheshire's offer to talk with Evans?

Why refuse to meet with the defense attorneys prior to indictments to see potential exculpatory evidence?

Why have Cpl Addison make a declarative statement there was a rape!

Why did the DPD pass this out ? Look at the date! Read those words! How snide! How False! Hat Tip John in Carolina

Posted Image

Edited by Baldo, Feb 2 2009, 05:18 PM.
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Baldo
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Why? I will tell you why!

IT WAS A FRAME before it was a Hoax
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