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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 24 2009, 02:51 PM (450 Views) | |
| Repo Man | Mar 24 2009, 02:51 PM Post #1 |
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I posted this on a few other boards, but it fits here nicely and I'd like to see everyone else's take on this game. ***************** This weekend I had some guys over for video game night. One of my friends went to Blockbuster to rent Street Fighter 4, but saw this game sitting on the shelf and picked it up. When I saw it in his hand, I giggled like a little school girl because frankly I hadn't expected to play it until later this week. My other buddy frowned on a "wrestling" game, but lit up when he realized it was all the old school dudes from his childhood and not the lame class of stars we have today. So, we plop it in and me and my two buddies begin to play this game. First of all before I begin this review let me clarify who is reviewing this. I used to really love the SvR games until they butchered CAW mode and made it harder for me to actually add in my legend CAWs. I don't watch wrestling today so I don't care if I play as Cody Rhodes, John Cena or any new star. I want my legends and thus SvR is no longer a game for me. But I am very familiar with wrestling games... and my two friends... never play them. Ever. But I'll give you their reactions as well. ***************** Initial reactions. Our first match was a Triple Threat because well... there were 3 of us. My two friends who never play wrestling games ever... beat me senselessly. I had played the demo for about 4 matches and yet I was still in SvR controls mode. The two that never played that game, picked up the controls easily and destroyed me. I lost the next match too. And the tag match that followed. And they were having a blast. They loved the roster, they loved the striking and they even started pulling off moves and reversals. The entrances brought back memories and they laughed and laughed as the kicked my lifeless body on the mat. Next we played a Battle Royal match. I had read that only strikes were allowed in these match types and for the most part, that is true. They do have limited grapples here so it isn't ALL strikes. It took me awhile to figure out the mini game for when someone is about to strike your hands, but once I got that down, I was able to escape elimination a few times. However, once your health is Zero... you don't get a mini game, you are just tossed out. My friends didn't enjoy this match as much as the previous ones since there was a lot going on and not much direction in what to do. So far this is turning out to be a great party game as new people can just hop right in. NOT SO FAST! I then scoured the match option menu to realize... Triple Threat, Tag Team, Battle Royal and the Rumble (which should just count as one match type anyhow since they are essentially the same) were the ONLY options for a party of over 2. No Ladder Matches for us, no Cage (even though it was locked anyhow) or any other match type. So this right there limits a game that seems perfect for a party situation. We played a Ladder Match and let one person sit out. I finally won a match. When I was one-on-one with a button masher, I could decimate them. But two in one match, I can't compete very well. And for a game that seems like it was designed for party settings... having someone sit out every other match is not cool. I don't get it. THQ hypes the controls for this game as being easy for new people to hop right in (the makings of a great party game), but they limit the matches that new people can actually play (making it a party game for about 15 minutes at a time). So we stopped playing and went on to Halo 3. ***************** Overall Impressions. After they left I got the game to myself (since my friend who rented it left it with me - insert maniacal laughter here). I hopped into the CAL mode, my favorite thing in these games. I instantly made Giant Gonzalez and was very pleased with my handi-work. It took me about 7 minutes and it was the best Gonzalez I'd ever created thanks to the nice Legends specific attire. RAW 2 for the Xbox had this feature, but SvR has been missing it forever... go figure. I went to edit his moveset and then disappointment set in. I didn't have an SvR09 save file on my system and thus... couldn't assign Gonzalez a Chokeslam finisher. I huffed and gave him Undertaker's moves and hopped into Legend Killer mode. Sadly, I beat the first Tier without losing a match and unlocked about 300 points in achievements (a slight exaggeration but not by much). I was able to beef up my CAL a bit as well. By now the moves are coming to me easier and I'm really starting to shake off my SvR tendencies and actually get into this game more. Next I went into Relive Mode. I must say... I LOVE THE RELIVE MODE!!! The movies before the matches brought back so many memories. I love having to perform all these little quests to fulfill specific requirements. The animations were great. I can't say enough good things about this mode... but here's a bad thing. Not enough. I sped through Relive quicker than I really expected and got Gold Medals in every one on my first try. Not so fast though... I have two more modes to go through, so no biggy. Except that in Rewrite and Redefine, you have generic events you need to complete. Not match specific ones. The videos again are great, but I didn't enjoy these nearly as much as the Relive matches. But... I did like having goals still which makes them better than just normal matches in the game. And then I completed these modes unlocking more achievements. I have rarely played a game where the achievements flow so freely. And high point ones at that. Now, after completing ALL of the WrestleMania Tour matches and getting golds in each one, I have one thought. MORE. I want more. You have like 6 matches in each category. Each one has a intro movie. During your progress, you unlock like 5 more movies that don't have matches associated with them and the only thing I can think of is... Why THQ, why? Why are you so lazy? Every match in that mode could have been in the Relive section. Then, take that SAME match and put it in the Rewrite section... then... take those same matches and put them in the Redefine section (since those last two have generic goals anyhow). Instead of 18 matches in this mode (and making those 5 unlockable videos into matches), you'd now have 69 matches. It would require a few extra animations for Relive mode, but almost NO other work. So I don't get why this mode is so limited. It baffles me. Now is the first time I've actually doubted buying this game at $60 since it seems like a $40 game with what is included in it. I went and made Mankind, but again... no finisher for him. Went into Legend Killer mode and played a bit and that's where I stopped. ***************** Conclusion: This is a great FIRST game in the series. Like TNA Impact! it has great potential, but all in all it seems a bit lacking on features, modes and replayability. PROS: - Controls are easy for people new to wrestling games to hop in and have fun. I like them after getting used to them. - Relive Mode is the bomb. Love it. - Love the CAL parts for actual Legends. - Roster. Sure, it's missing a few big names, but overall I am pleased with it. - Achievements are easy to get... maybe too easy though. - Graphics are awesome. Love the theme songs. Love the entrances. - I actually like the QTEs. Some may hate them, but I think it's a nice break from the normal moves and certainly different from SvR. - Commentary doesn't annoy me. It seems very transparent to me, unlike in SvR games where it ranges from the same phrase again and again to just plain wrong in any given scenario. - Ladder matches, HIAC and Cage matches have really nice animations and events associated with them. The meters in the Cage and Ladder matches work really well. - Managers. BEST utilization of managers I've ever seen. They are awesome in this game. CONS: - While CAL is great... having no finishers for them sucks. BIG TIME! - While it's easy for people to learn, once they do there is very little to keep them busy and happy here. Not enough multiplayer match types here. A bare bones party game. - Not enough to do. Relive, Rewrite and Redefine is great, but laziness or rushing the game out the door make this about 2 hours worth of fun and then it's over. - Limitations that don't seem to need to be there. I saw what can be done in Relive Mode... so I'm not sure why you can't do some of these things in EVERY mode. I can do Bret's figure-four around the ring post in Relive, but I have a feeling that's the only place you can do it in. I haven't tried, but it seems like these moves/animations are made only for Relive, which is a shame because it would make normal matches better if you could do them there as well. - Move limits. I am tired of doing the same moves again and again. I know it's supposed to be like WrestleFest, but even just mapping a move to each different direction on the thumbstick would add a lot to the game. I also found myself getting frustrated trying to do things outside the ring. I don't know how many times I tried getting a chair out, but instead grabbed my opponent by the hair and led him up the ramp. That animation is so annoying to me know that I want to scream at the TV every time I see it, mostly because that's NOT the move I was attempting to do. - While I listed Ladder, Cage and HiaC in Pros, they are also in Cons because of their limitations. Not much to do in HiaC besides tossing a dude off the top and suplexing them through it. Once you do those it's pretty much a normal match. Ladder is limited because you can't leave the ring, nor can you strike a downed opponent with the ladder in your hand. Cage has... well... I can't think of any negatives for that match. It's pretty well done. So I am torn. Do I buy this game after I return the rental or pass this year? I have unlocked everything, minus a few Tiers in Legend Killer mode. I have beaten WrestleMania tour. There isn't much for a room of 3 or 4 people to do. And there isn't much to do for a single person to do now that everything is "done". I can see making CALs to run through LK mode and that will occupy some time, but for how long? Especially considering I can't give them any finishers that are unique to them? It's fun, but it doesn't seem worth $60 this year. Next year will be a different story... if there is a next year. There is Xbox Live, but... I fear that after playing SvR's. One thing that could really SAVE this game... DLC. A pack of stars and NEW finishers, along with a slew of NEW RELIVE matches... that would be one step in the right direction. But who knows if we'll see anything like that. Score: 7 out of 10 (EDIT: I thought 6.5 was too low, but I still am having a hard time justifying $60 for this game) |
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| garethac81 | Mar 24 2009, 04:00 PM Post #2 |
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Thanks for that review, Repo - it was really interesting to read both your take on the game and your friends' (the non-wrestling fans) reaction as well. One thing you wrote that really surprised me - bear in mind I haven't been able to play the game myself yet - was that there isn't a different move assigned to each direction on the pad. Does this apply to strikes as well as grapples? I know that tapping or holding buttons produces either a weak or a strong strike/grapple...does that mean you have just two strikes and two front grapples per level (not including chains)??? A little more info on this would be greatly appreciated. Oh, and one more question (I've almost been too scared to ask up to now): I know you can't edit the finishers, but you CAN edit the regular movesets of both roster members and CAL's...right? |
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| Perfect_Plex | Mar 24 2009, 04:03 PM Post #3 |
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Game should arrive today, but I don't have it as of now. Some thoughts: --Your comment about it being hard to do what you want outside the ring yet again presses upon me the need to curtail the QTE hotspots for that area. In other threads, I've suggested a mixed approach retaining some but eliminating the biggest offenders (which also happened to get special mention in your review). I like the QTEs as a way to add competitive spice and flow, but they shouldn't be the province of the outside-the-ring area nearly as much as they are (at least in exhibition mode). The isleway hotspot is just absurd. It defies common sense so much that I can't imagine anyone thinking it was a good idea. --Also, moves moves moves moves. More moves for the create-a-moveset mode has to be one of the top priorites for pumping much-needed lifeblood into this game. The CAL does sound nice (Greggy really glosses over this one in his review, basically saying they added Giant Gonzales and a few hairstyles), so we gotta get those moves patched in or beefed up for a sequel. |
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| Perfect_Plex | Mar 24 2009, 04:07 PM Post #4 |
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Yeah Gareth, it does feel a bit limiting. Perhaps among our top priorites for improving gameplay should be reinstating the "finisher-in-isolation" and adding a directional element for choosing moves. Holding grapple down for a stronger-but-harder/slower-to-obtain move and double-tapping for quicker grapples is intuitive to some extent, but it need not be so limiting. Edit: In some situations, pushing 'away' will do a different move, but it's not fully fleshed out in that regard. Edited by Perfect_Plex, Mar 24 2009, 04:17 PM.
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| garethac81 | Mar 24 2009, 04:18 PM Post #5 |
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WOW. There's another addition to my "such an obvious inclusion I never even considered they'd leave it out" list. 2 strikes and 2 front grapples per level? No WAY should we stand for that. Bigger movesets via directional controls has got to be in our final proposal. The hold vs. tap method need not have to make way...like you said, that system isn't predicated on a limited moveset. Edited by garethac81, Mar 24 2009, 04:21 PM.
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| fcogemini | Mar 24 2009, 05:21 PM Post #6 |
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not really Gareth, for every level it's x x+-> xx x (hold) for grapples (plus irish whip x+<- ) (NB if you execute a grapple when opponent is stunned, it begins a chain) strikes are [] []+-> []+<- [] (hold) cheers
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| Showtime | Mar 24 2009, 07:25 PM Post #7 |
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The sad part is they are concerned with this game not selling enough copies for different reasons, but making the game this bad they should not be surprised, and again we have to keep in mind these new guys made this game, I bet the other team is playing this game with a "wtf" look on their face. Either way its a THQ product, if THQ has any pride about what games they put their name on then they should be feeling some shame with this effort.
Edited by Showtime, Mar 24 2009, 07:26 PM.
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| garethac81 | Mar 24 2009, 07:46 PM Post #8 |
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So you're telling me there's 4 front grapples per level? Well, that's an easier pill to swallow, at least. Can you edit all the regular moves for roster members and CAL's, including which strikes they have? |
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| sorednax | Mar 24 2009, 08:05 PM Post #9 |
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The Good, the Bad, and a couple surprises. Well, I got the game first thing this morning. I played maybe an hour of gameplay, the rest was tweeking my SvR CALs. Ohhh, and so there is no mis-interpretation about the moves... its NOT 2 strikes, 2 grapples... There are 3 Strikes (non level specific) 3 "Fists of Fury" which are like strike combos 1 quick grapple lvl 1 1 quick grapple lvl 2 3 lvl 1 grapple moves 3 lvl 2 grapple moves 2 lvl 1 strong grapples 2 lvl 2 strong grapples 2 lvl 3 strong grapples 4 graples from behind (non level specific) 2 ground strike attacks 4 ground graple attacks 2 diving vs standing 2 diving vs downed 2 running strikes 1 running grapple 1 running grapple from behind 1 running ground strike 1 groggy against ropes The Irish Whip 1 running strike corner 1 grapple corner 15 Chain Struggles. Ok, now that it is out of the way, here are some first impressions. In CAL, you will be pleasantly surprised by the amount of characters that were intended for this game. Everything is expanded from hair and facepaint to tatoos and logos. The call names are a dual edged sword. Gone are the proper names: Jesse, William, Robert, Michael, etc. The new nicknames almost assure that you'll get some dream CAL. Mr Macho for instance.....duh. Plus The Barbarian, The Model, The Dragon, etc. Overall the call name list is shorter. But here is another pleasant surprise, while using my CAL Macho Man, during the match itself Jerry Lawler actually referrenced "Mr. Macho." I honestly do not recall any SvR09 Announcer ever using my CAWs call name in their commentary. AND THE AWARD FOR FUNNIEST NEW FAN SIGN IS... "Shut Up! We can't hear JR and the King." Ohh and speaking of my Macho Man CAL, I had no problem coming off the rope with an elbow splash, then covering my opponent for a 3 count. It's just not a "FINISHER" by the games definition. While it's true that there are only 2 generic entrances for CALs, there are 5 generic entrances. Some of them however are blatently obvious. One is Money Inc. complete with Briefcase for IRS. Another is the Bushwackers entrance. The last is, believe it or not, the Attitude DX I think. Sure, the DX entrance is there, but this involves the desert jeep being brought out. It looks like the one DX (HHH, Chyna, New Age Outlaws, X-pac) used when they waged "war" on WCW Nitro. When creating Ricky Steamboat, I was pleasantly surprised to fing Feet and Inches. No more 185cm crap. Hey, no offense to you metric users, but us dumbass Americans love our Feet & Inches. The gameplay WILL take some getting used to, but it is by no means a failure of a system. My problem is in creating all those damn CAWs in SvR2009. I spent the last 4 weeks creating and playing, playing and creating. So I have to de-program my brain from SvR09 now. Still a bit disappointed there is no The Missing Link hairstyle, but other than that it should be easy to make anyone. Hope to see some of you online tonight and the rest of this week. We can play against each other and figure out the system together. My Xbox Gamertag is: I Am Malice If you want a rating, I give this a strong 7.5/10 would have been an 8.2, but without the right entrance attire, and no managers for tag and triple threat matches, it went down a peg. |
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| Perfect_Plex | Mar 24 2009, 08:20 PM Post #10 |
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Thanks for setting us straight on the grappling guys. Got the game. Spent the first few hours patching in music and editing movesets before even playing a match. Edited Jake Roberts and Undertaker to start. Happy to see Jake's pattented knee lift (named "knee strike 4" I believe, or something like that). DDT also looks quite good, if a little hurried all around. Best two renderings of those moves in a game so far though... Also, seeing how the chains are strung together, my previous idea about big-men knock down chains probably wouldn't make much sense, and it would be more logical to go with something like what Gareth proposed earlier for getting weight det. into the quicktimes. So it's off to Wrestlemania VIII to fight the Undertaker, and let me tell you, with the Damage Rate slider all the way down, he is freaking TOUGH to beat. Coolest spot so far: I had all Undertaker's energy down and the camera cuts to Paul Bearer holding up the urn. The Undertaker sits up and regains half his energy!!!! I think this is cool because it makes him really hard to beat and that's how it should be for the Undertaker. So I lost the first match, just barely missing the 'blue strip' in the pin mini-game challenge. In the rematch I finally went on to win with a DDT (level 3 grapple), not before giving Bearer a little punishment. Wish they didn't default to the moves you can to do a manager or else I would have given him the DDT (lvl 3 grapple). Damien looks pretty cool too. His little tongue shoots out and everything, though they could have milked the winning sequence a bit more it's a very welcome addition. One more audio glitch: Upon selecting the rematch the commentary was totally silent until I won the match and then it cut back in again for the winning sequence. Another cool tenuous stab at weight detection is apparent in some of the lifting moves. When I do the gutbuster on Undertaker, Jake struggles a little (where I distinctly remember in the CAM preview there was no struggle). Enjoying it so far, and sorry for any misinformation above or elsewhere. Edited by Perfect_Plex, Mar 25 2009, 02:17 AM.
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