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Resurrection; Work in Progress
Topic Started: Jul 20 2009, 12:41 AM (158 Views)
Zoid	Jul 20 2009, 12:41 AM Post #1
Coppersmith Posts: 78 Group: Members Member #234 Joined: Jul 1, 2009	One of the most annoying things about this game has always been fighting for kills. It's also one of the things that makes it easier for someone who has more time to dominate, since while they may not have a stronger character, they are able to spam kill high levels much more easily. Perhaps we can set up a system where people don't actually compete for kills? Here's my thought right now: Model 1: When you are killed by one person, you can still be killed by any other person in that 5 minute time frame. However, you only lose experience for the first person who killed you. This means that each person will still only be able to kill you every 5 minutes, but you can be killed more than once. In other words, instead of resurrecting every 5 minutes, you resurrect for each other player every 5 minutes. Model 2: Similar to model 1, you resurrect for each other player every 5 minutes, but now you do lose experience each time you die. However, you can only be killed X number of times per day (my suggestion would be 144). Once you hit that limit, you cannot be killed until rollover. This would also have the side benefit of limiting spamming, as if 4 people are killing someone, each one will only be able to kill them x/4 times before they hit the limit. This is very much a work in progress and may not even be a good idea or feasible to implement. I just know how annoying it is to fight over kills all the time and would like to be rid of it somehow without ruining the game.



yosh	Aug 5 2009, 01:48 PM Post #2
Performer Posts: 102 Group: Game Admins Member #8 Joined: Nov 26, 2008	While im gone can you guys please continue this discussion. We might have to get a new battlearena that does not involve constant f5ing and all online players hunting the same targets like crazy



TeraHammer	Aug 5 2009, 02:36 PM Post #3
Forum Darling Posts: 1,611 Group: Global Moderators Member #3 Joined: Nov 21, 2008	model 2 doesnt work. It would bring advantages for spammers in the morning.
Conquering the Karmina System as Exar Kun this round


Rhino	Aug 5 2009, 03:10 PM Post #4
Shearman Posts: 488 Group: Members Member #172 Joined: Mar 27, 2009	The first suggestion sounds really reasonable with me cant see why that shouldnt be implemented even if we dont have to change things. Makes the game alot easier for everyone and means the final ending of the round wont be so chaoticly hard for kills. Edited by Rhino, Aug 5 2009, 03:11 PM.
When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth. Quote: ”YOU SHALL NOT PASS!” Cried Rhino /EPIC


Mhuahaha	Aug 5 2009, 03:23 PM Post #5
Herder Posts: 2,712 Group: Forum Admins Member #1 Joined: Nov 21, 2008	I am not sure about model 1 myself. It will make the game way too easy for some. If you had a very weak player, you'd have many players just spamming on that one guy. The limited amount of kills you can get on that guy mean you probably have to spend all day working on it. You will most likely miss out on a kill as well. If you implement model 1, you will be able to just kill him whenever you please. Well, it would be only natural to implement something so you wont be able to kill that one person around 150 times in five minutes, but still, it requires very little patience. So, this will actually make spamming a lot easier. I'd rather have just spam killing target be the constant f5'ing, waiting for a target to come up, hopefully being able to kill it....than just waiting for five minutes, see whether your target has ressurected yet, kill, repeat. In my view, it isn't the fighting for kills which is a problem. It is the fact that players with too much time on their hands can become way better than others just by spamming the same target for ages. I still don't think this is a bad thing myself though. Anyway, the first model will not tackle that problem. The second one might, but with some adjustments. Instead of having one rollover, have one every 4 hours and let the counter pop back to 25 or something. This will at least give a pretty even playing field to both european and american players. Still, I don't think it is all that much of a problem.
Don't ask.... I AM MERELY A FORUM ADMIN. I HAVE NO IN-GAME POWERS.


Rhino	Aug 5 2009, 03:41 PM Post #6
Shearman Posts: 488 Group: Members Member #172 Joined: Mar 27, 2009	Mhuahaha Aug 5 2009, 03:23 PM I am not sure about model 1 myself. It will make the game way too easy for some. If you had a very weak player, you'd have many players just spamming on that one guy. The limited amount of kills you can get on that guy mean you probably have to spend all day working on it. You will most likely miss out on a kill as well. If you implement model 1, you will be able to just kill him whenever you please. Well, it would be only natural to implement something so you wont be able to kill that one person around 150 times in five minutes, but still, it requires very little patience. So, this will actually make spamming a lot easier. I'd rather have just spam killing target be the constant f5'ing, waiting for a target to come up, hopefully being able to kill it....than just waiting for five minutes, see whether your target has ressurected yet, kill, repeat. In my view, it isn't the fighting for kills which is a problem. It is the fact that players with too much time on their hands can become way better than others just by spamming the same target for ages. I still don't think this is a bad thing myself though. Anyway, the first model will not tackle that problem. The second one might, but with some adjustments. Instead of having one rollover, have one every 4 hours and let the counter pop back to 25 or something. This will at least give a pretty even playing field to both european and american players. Still, I don't think it is all that much of a problem. I dont think you got why yosh wants people to comment on this suggestion alone? Because the current battle system is causing way to much refreshing when trying to battle. Also i dont think you understood what exactly zoid said in choice 1, he explains that to stop spamming you can have the corpse come alive again every 5 minutes for each single player. This means you still have to wait 5 minutes after each kill but other players who want to kill him dont have to wait 5 minutes for the "chance" to kill.
When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth. Quote: ”YOU SHALL NOT PASS!” Cried Rhino /EPIC


Mhuahaha	Aug 5 2009, 03:55 PM Post #7
Herder Posts: 2,712 Group: Forum Admins Member #1 Joined: Nov 21, 2008	Rhino Aug 5 2009, 03:41 PM I dont think you got why yosh wants people to comment on this suggestion alone? Because the current battle system is causing way to much refreshing when trying to battle. Also i dont think you understood what exactly zoid said in choice 1, he explains that to stop spamming you can have the corpse come alive again every 5 minutes for each single player. This means you still have to wait 5 minutes after each kill but other players who want to kill him dont have to wait 5 minutes for the "chance" to kill. Well, the scripts caused the problem. With a few limitations to the usage of the f5 and there shouldn't be any problem. LA ran on a lot more "normal "f5'ing before without any problems. Still, yosh might be under pressure from the host to do something about the f5'ing. And to comment on the first mode....I understand that he meant that. And I am exactly against it because of that. Instead of having a chance to spam, you can just spam away untill your hearts content. So, that means you still have an easy life you can spend a couple of hours on LA. One hour spamming on one target will still only land you 12 kills. The problem remains. You can be better if you have the time for it. And on a side note, both models will still not remove much f5'ing. For the first, it is so etched in our system that we need to land the kill quickly, we wont be able to lose that for a while. Besides, I'd want to kill a person as quicly as possible to have to use as little time battling as possible. The second model will actually give peak moments of f5 usage jsut after rollovers. I know I am being a big pessimist about it. But I'll try and think of something which might work myself though.
Don't ask.... I AM MERELY A FORUM ADMIN. I HAVE NO IN-GAME POWERS.


Rhino	Aug 5 2009, 04:20 PM Post #8
Shearman Posts: 488 Group: Members Member #172 Joined: Mar 27, 2009	Mhuahaha Aug 5 2009, 03:55 PM Rhino Aug 5 2009, 03:41 PM I know I am being a big pessimist about it. But I'll try and think of something which might work myself though. This is the thing with all the changes, at least someone has a negative view of each one and downgrades the quality of the change all together. Do you honestly think that half of the stuff that happens in life is 100% guarnteed to make everyone happy STRAIGHT away, people have to embrace changes for them to really work. A solution to the problem though is that you(the player in question) can only kill each player a certain amount of times each day this prevents someone being able to spam altogether, if the number is not to high of course.
When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth. Quote: ”YOU SHALL NOT PASS!” Cried Rhino /EPIC


INSK	Aug 5 2009, 04:23 PM Post #9
Draper Posts: 701 Group: Members Member #199 Joined: Apr 19, 2009	why not to remove the F5ing so easily just get rid of the battle icon on the players profile(i know makes it more complitacted to battle. but this would stop the constant reloading for a kill. as for the pop F5ing i'd suggest a loading screen inside of the same browser VVVsuck as thisVVV \|battle\| INSK.........................[With the battle \|battle\| strsd.........................[Screen over \|battle\| tiana.........................[Here Instead \|battle\| yosh.........................[Of the pop up this would stop it so hitting F5 would only reload the page and not the link you clicked onto. just an idea (like i always say ) Edited by INSK, Aug 5 2009, 04:25 PM.
*MY MSN DELETED ALL CONTACTS ADD ME IF YOU HAD ME: THING0NE@LIVE.COM*


zelda	Aug 5 2009, 04:38 PM Post #10
Florist Posts: 771 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: Nov 26, 2008	Welcome to the world of convinience, without getting tennis elbow or cramp in your finger. That's right, i present to you a variable timer!. Not only do i provide windows vista users with a variable timer, but also a brief manual on how to use it! Find your target, kill your target, set your timer to 4.45, get on with whatever work you were doing untill the timer flashes, giving you 15seconds to get your kill. VOILA, f5'ing reduced by around 75%. *sigh.
LA wont die with yosh running it.


Zoid	Aug 5 2009, 06:51 PM Post #11
Coppersmith Posts: 78 Group: Members Member #234 Joined: Jul 1, 2009	Mhuahaha Aug 5 2009, 03:23 PM I am not sure about model 1 myself. It will make the game way too easy for some. If you had a very weak player, you'd have many players just spamming on that one guy. The limited amount of kills you can get on that guy mean you probably have to spend all day working on it. You will most likely miss out on a kill as well. If you implement model 1, you will be able to just kill him whenever you please. Well, it would be only natural to implement something so you wont be able to kill that one person around 150 times in five minutes, but still, it requires very little patience. So, this will actually make spamming a lot easier. I'd rather have just spam killing target be the constant f5'ing, waiting for a target to come up, hopefully being able to kill it....than just waiting for five minutes, see whether your target has ressurected yet, kill, repeat. In my view, it isn't the fighting for kills which is a problem. It is the fact that players with too much time on their hands can become way better than others just by spamming the same target for ages. I still don't think this is a bad thing myself though. Anyway, the first model will not tackle that problem. The second one might, but with some adjustments. Instead of having one rollover, have one every 4 hours and let the counter pop back to 25 or something. This will at least give a pretty even playing field to both european and american players. Still, I don't think it is all that much of a problem. A smart player who is spamming would likely have used the profile link for the first kill and then just has to hold his f5 button down every 5 minutes. He knows exactly when the person was killed (since the game timer is frozen) and thus has a massive advantage over anyone else trying to kill that person...such as a casual player. I really don't think this will help the massive spammers very much and will help non-spammers a lot. Someone determined to spam will just keep killing very carefully and if someone steals his kill, he'll just come back later (anyone who was the spam target of Cloud7 or Sub last round knows this is true). If anything, this will help more casual players compete with the ones who are online all the time because the soft targets won't always be dead from someone spamming.



ovesh	Aug 5 2009, 06:54 PM Post #12
king of the world Posts: 993 Group: Members Member #43 Joined: Nov 29, 2008	How about limiting the amount of times each player can attack another player. Say I attack Zoid make it so I can only attack him 10-20 times a day that would mean 100min only for attacking Zoid. Add this to module one. Another good tactic would be to add something that would need you to ok if you want to F5 like in the battle screen. Or just redirect the page after each battle so you can't F5 (It is a simple IF statement ) If refresh {redirect to home page} If you want to the code for something like that msg me
I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness. We live in a society where pizza gets to your house before the police. Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. Having sex is like playing bridge. If you don't have a good partner, you'd better have a good hand.


INSK	Aug 5 2009, 07:18 PM Post #13
Draper Posts: 701 Group: Members Member #199 Joined: Apr 19, 2009	ovesh Aug 5 2009, 06:54 PM How about limiting the amount of times each player can attack another player. Say I attack Zoid make it so I can only attack him 10-20 times a day that would mean 100min only for attacking Zoid. Add this to module one. The downfall in that is that this would make a lot of players mad because they'd forget who all they have attacked that 10-20 times a day. i know near the end of the round i really only had about 3 targets i could attack without using pots and not having to 'battle down'. ovesh Another good tactic would be to add something that would need you to ok if you want to F5 like in the battle screen. Or just redirect the page after each battle so you can't F5 (It is a simple IF statement ) If refresh {redirect to home page} If you want to the code for something like that msg me and this would just make things harder on players causing more loss of players. you'd better of making it just refresh to the search page but yes this would not be to hard to implment into the game i agree
*MY MSN DELETED ALL CONTACTS ADD ME IF YOU HAD ME: THING0NE@LIVE.COM*


ovesh	Aug 5 2009, 07:28 PM Post #14
king of the world Posts: 993 Group: Members Member #43 Joined: Nov 29, 2008	INSK you think it is easy to implant that? ha it is much more difficult then I thought at first. I think I have a solution though
I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness. We live in a society where pizza gets to your house before the police. Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. Having sex is like playing bridge. If you don't have a good partner, you'd better have a good hand.


Mhuahaha	Aug 5 2009, 07:52 PM Post #15
Herder Posts: 2,712 Group: Forum Admins Member #1 Joined: Nov 21, 2008	Zoid Aug 5 2009, 06:51 PM A smart player who is spamming would likely have used the profile link for the first kill and then just has to hold his f5 button down every 5 minutes. He knows exactly when the person was killed (since the game timer is frozen) and thus has a massive advantage over anyone else trying to kill that person...such as a casual player. I believe Yosh is battling that part. Inputting a timer so you wont be able to f5 like there's no tomorrow. zoid I really don't think this will help the massive spammers very much and will help non-spammers a lot. Someone determined to spam will just keep killing very carefully and if someone steals his kill, he'll just come back later (anyone who was the spam target of Cloud7 or Sub last round knows this is true). If anything, this will help more casual players compete with the ones who are online all the time because the soft targets won't always be dead from someone spamming. Hmm, do you think that it is a bad thing that people who have the time and are willing to invest it in LA have an advantage over others because of it? The first model wont level the playing field that much. If you have the time for it, you'll still end up being better. A casual player doesn't have the time to spam a weak target anyway. And....I don't see why the competing for kills is a problem, especially if you implement the timer, which is probably going to implimented anyway, you'd have a nearly level playing field anyway. I am not a spammer anyway. So I don't know the details of how it is done, so I don't know whether I can discuss this in great detail because of that. I don't know, it seems to easy for me. Just log on and kill who you want. No interference from other players, no thrill in discovering whether you had the kill or not. That's part of the exitement of battling for me. The f5'ing also makes it too easy for the one landing the first kill though. I agree that has to be stopped. Not just for the server, but it seems like a grey area to me and it is way to prone to scripting.
Don't ask.... I AM MERELY A FORUM ADMIN. I HAVE NO IN-GAME POWERS.


Zoid	Aug 5 2009, 11:43 PM Post #16
Coppersmith Posts: 78 Group: Members Member #234 Joined: Jul 1, 2009	I've always been a strong proponent of the idea that the amount of time you can invest should have nothing to do with your rank, in any game, it's what you do with that time. People like to use sports analogies to say that's not realistic and those with more time always get an advantage, but I disagree. For example, take basketball. Players get better at different rates, everyone who's ever played the game knows this. Player X may need to practice for 1000 hours to hit 70% of his free throws while player Y needs to practice for 2000 hours to hit the same percentage. Obviously there is an inherent advantage to being able to practice more, but at the end of the day, what still matters is how well you can shoot, not how much time you put in shooting. Relating this to LA, there is no other way to get the advantage of spamming other than to sit there for hours and spam. A player can be pretty horrible but if he has time to spam a soft target, he'll gain a lot of ground over people who know more and are just plain more knowledgeable about the game. It would be as if you were playing a basketball game and you scored more points for each basket the more you practiced, regardless of how well you shot. Strategy should dominate the game, not time invested. Time invested should (and does) lead to good strategy, but there should never be an inherent advantage to being able to play more. EDIT: Also, I should note that for myself and most people I've known, fighting and being unsure if you're going to get the kill is annoying, not exhilarating as you describe. I hate planning out my attack runs carefully with my RL schedule, potioning up, then 3 kills in someone else comes online and starts killing my targets, making it so that I have to constantly refresh the search window and battle screens to get my kills in. I posted this originally more to develop the idea though, not so much to debate it. It's far from complete as is, it's just my first thought. Edited by Zoid, Aug 5 2009, 11:46 PM.



Brithor	Aug 6 2009, 12:00 AM Post #17
Lil' Chico Posts: 971 Group: Members Member #4 Joined: Nov 24, 2008	Zoid Aug 5 2009, 11:43 PM I've always been a strong proponent of the idea that the amount of time you can invest should have nothing to do with your rank, in any game, it's what you do with that time. People like to use sports analogies to say that's not realistic and those with more time always get an advantage, but I disagree. This is the best thing I've ever read in this forum.



Mhuahaha	Aug 6 2009, 12:09 AM Post #18
Herder Posts: 2,712 Group: Forum Admins Member #1 Joined: Nov 21, 2008	Hmm, wouldn't a logical way to lessen that be to increase the amount of ways we can build our character? Now I am not talking about adding more classes. Though that would be a way(get that dreaded finishing move out and we'll talk about it). No, even more daring.....add another attribute point. Or two. A daring suggestion could be....adding an attribute point called accuracy. Have strength make up your max attack, have your max attack and minimum attack be raised by your weapon for a set percentage.....but have accuracy determin the range in which you hit. What accuracy does though, should depend on your max strength. Strength/accuracy x 1 = Amount by which the minimum damage is raised. Just an idea.
Don't ask.... I AM MERELY A FORUM ADMIN. I HAVE NO IN-GAME POWERS.


[NL]Freak	Aug 6 2009, 02:54 AM Post #19
Bookkeeper Posts: 1,420 Group: Members Member #21 Joined: Nov 27, 2008	model one sounds good, i say 1 person is alowed to spam somebody not more than 25 times a day:)
Spamming is an art


Zoid	Aug 6 2009, 04:29 AM Post #20
Coppersmith Posts: 78 Group: Members Member #234 Joined: Jul 1, 2009	Note also that I've suggested several methods to limit spamming without actually putting a hard limit on it (in my big list of suggestions thread). These mostly involve giving the spammee some advantage when attacking the spammer or just flat out making the spammer more vulnerable to attack, such as the suggestion that for a certain period after a threshold is of spam is passed, the spammer is worth 8 warpoints to everyone, regardless of clan wars.



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Resurrection; Work in Progress

Topic Started: Jul 20 2009, 12:41 AM (158 Views)

Zoid

Jul 20 2009, 12:41 AM Post #1

Coppersmith

Posts:: 78
Group:: Members
Member: #234
Joined:: Jul 1, 2009

One of the most annoying things about this game has always been fighting for kills. It's also one of the things that makes it easier for someone who has more time to dominate, since while they may not have a stronger character, they are able to spam kill high levels much more easily.

Perhaps we can set up a system where people don't actually compete for kills? Here's my thought right now:

Model 1: When you are killed by one person, you can still be killed by any other person in that 5 minute time frame. However, you only lose experience for the first person who killed you. This means that each person will still only be able to kill you every 5 minutes, but you can be killed more than once. In other words, instead of resurrecting every 5 minutes, you resurrect for each other player every 5 minutes.

Model 2:
Similar to model 1, you resurrect for each other player every 5 minutes, but now you do lose experience each time you die. However, you can only be killed X number of times per day (my suggestion would be 144). Once you hit that limit, you cannot be killed until rollover. This would also have the side benefit of limiting spamming, as if 4 people are killing someone, each one will only be able to kill them x/4 times before they hit the limit.

This is very much a work in progress and may not even be a good idea or feasible to implement. I just know how annoying it is to fight over kills all the time and would like to be rid of it somehow without ruining the game.

yosh

Aug 5 2009, 01:48 PM Post #2

Performer

Posts:: 102
Group:: Game Admins
Member: #8
Joined:: Nov 26, 2008

While im gone can you guys please continue this discussion. We might have to get a new battlearena that does not involve constant f5ing and all online players hunting the same targets like crazy

TeraHammer

Aug 5 2009, 02:36 PM Post #3

Forum Darling

Posts:: 1,611
Group:: Global Moderators
Member: #3
Joined:: Nov 21, 2008

model 2 doesnt work. It would bring advantages for spammers in the morning.

Conquering the Karmina System as Exar Kun this round

Rhino

Aug 5 2009, 03:10 PM Post #4

Shearman

Posts:: 488
Group:: Members
Member: #172
Joined:: Mar 27, 2009

The first suggestion sounds really reasonable with me cant see why that shouldnt be implemented even if we dont have to change things. Makes the game alot easier for everyone and means the final ending of the round wont be so chaoticly hard for kills.

Edited by Rhino, Aug 5 2009, 03:11 PM.

When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth.

Quote:

”YOU SHALL NOT PASS!” Cried Rhino

/EPIC

Mhuahaha

Aug 5 2009, 03:23 PM Post #5

Herder

Posts:: 2,712
Group:: Forum Admins
Member: #1
Joined:: Nov 21, 2008

I am not sure about model 1 myself. It will make the game way too easy for some. If you had a very weak player, you'd have many players just spamming on that one guy. The limited amount of kills you can get on that guy mean you probably have to spend all day working on it. You will most likely miss out on a kill as well.

If you implement model 1, you will be able to just kill him whenever you please. Well, it would be only natural to implement something so you wont be able to kill that one person around 150 times in five minutes, but still, it requires very little patience. So, this will actually make spamming a lot easier. I'd rather have just spam killing target be the constant f5'ing, waiting for a target to come up, hopefully being able to kill it....than just waiting for five minutes, see whether your target has ressurected yet, kill, repeat.

In my view, it isn't the fighting for kills which is a problem. It is the fact that players with too much time on their hands can become way better than others just by spamming the same target for ages. I still don't think this is a bad thing myself though. Anyway, the first model will not tackle that problem. The second one might, but with some adjustments. Instead of having one rollover, have one every 4 hours and let the counter pop back to 25 or something. This will at least give a pretty even playing field to both european and american players.

Still, I don't think it is all that much of a problem.

Don't ask....

I AM MERELY A FORUM ADMIN. I HAVE NO IN-GAME POWERS.

Rhino

Aug 5 2009, 03:41 PM Post #6

Shearman

Posts:: 488
Group:: Members
Member: #172
Joined:: Mar 27, 2009

Mhuahaha
Aug 5 2009, 03:23 PM
I am not sure about model 1 myself. It will make the game way too easy for some. If you had a very weak player, you'd have many players just spamming on that one guy. The limited amount of kills you can get on that guy mean you probably have to spend all day working on it. You will most likely miss out on a kill as well.

If you implement model 1, you will be able to just kill him whenever you please. Well, it would be only natural to implement something so you wont be able to kill that one person around 150 times in five minutes, but still, it requires very little patience. So, this will actually make spamming a lot easier. I'd rather have just spam killing target be the constant f5'ing, waiting for a target to come up, hopefully being able to kill it....than just waiting for five minutes, see whether your target has ressurected yet, kill, repeat.

In my view, it isn't the fighting for kills which is a problem. It is the fact that players with too much time on their hands can become way better than others just by spamming the same target for ages. I still don't think this is a bad thing myself though. Anyway, the first model will not tackle that problem. The second one might, but with some adjustments. Instead of having one rollover, have one every 4 hours and let the counter pop back to 25 or something. This will at least give a pretty even playing field to both european and american players.

Still, I don't think it is all that much of a problem.

I dont think you got why yosh wants people to comment on this suggestion alone? Because the current battle system is causing way to much refreshing when trying to battle.

Also i dont think you understood what exactly zoid said in choice 1, he explains that to stop spamming you can have the corpse come alive again every 5 minutes for each single player. This means you still have to wait 5 minutes after each kill but other players who want to kill him dont have to wait 5 minutes for the "chance" to kill.

When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth.

Quote:

”YOU SHALL NOT PASS!” Cried Rhino

/EPIC

Mhuahaha

Aug 5 2009, 03:55 PM Post #7

Herder

Posts:: 2,712
Group:: Forum Admins
Member: #1
Joined:: Nov 21, 2008

Rhino
Aug 5 2009, 03:41 PM
I dont think you got why yosh wants people to comment on this suggestion alone? Because the current battle system is causing way to much refreshing when trying to battle.

Also i dont think you understood what exactly zoid said in choice 1, he explains that to stop spamming you can have the corpse come alive again every 5 minutes for each single player. This means you still have to wait 5 minutes after each kill but other players who want to kill him dont have to wait 5 minutes for the "chance" to kill.

Well, the scripts caused the problem. With a few limitations to the usage of the f5 and there shouldn't be any problem. LA ran on a lot more "normal "f5'ing before without any problems. Still, yosh might be under pressure from the host to do something about the f5'ing.

And to comment on the first mode....I understand that he meant that. And I am exactly against it because of that. Instead of having a chance to spam, you can just spam away untill your hearts content. So, that means you still have an easy life you can spend a couple of hours on LA. One hour spamming on one target will still only land you 12 kills. The problem remains. You can be better if you have the time for it.

And on a side note, both models will still not remove much f5'ing. For the first, it is so etched in our system that we need to land the kill quickly, we wont be able to lose that for a while. Besides, I'd want to kill a person as quicly as possible to have to use as little time battling as possible. The second model will actually give peak moments of f5 usage jsut after rollovers.

I know I am being a big pessimist about it. But I'll try and think of something which might work myself though.

Don't ask....

I AM MERELY A FORUM ADMIN. I HAVE NO IN-GAME POWERS.

Rhino

Aug 5 2009, 04:20 PM Post #8

Shearman

Posts:: 488
Group:: Members
Member: #172
Joined:: Mar 27, 2009

Mhuahaha
Aug 5 2009, 03:55 PM
Rhino
Aug 5 2009, 03:41 PM

I know I am being a big pessimist about it. But I'll try and think of something which might work myself though.
This is the thing with all the changes, at least someone has a negative view of each one and downgrades the quality of the change all together.

Do you honestly think that half of the stuff that happens in life is 100% guarnteed to make everyone happy STRAIGHT away, people have to embrace changes for them to really work.

A solution to the problem though is that you(the player in question) can only kill each player a certain amount of times each day this prevents someone being able to spam altogether, if the number is not to high of course.

When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth.

Quote:

”YOU SHALL NOT PASS!” Cried Rhino

/EPIC

INSK

Aug 5 2009, 04:23 PM Post #9

Draper

Posts:: 701
Group:: Members
Member: #199
Joined:: Apr 19, 2009

why not to remove the F5ing so easily just get rid of the battle icon on the players profile(i know makes it more complitacted to battle. but this would stop the constant reloading for a kill. as for the pop F5ing i'd suggest a loading screen inside of the same browser

VVVsuck as thisVVV

|battle| INSK.........................[With the battle
|battle| strsd.........................[Screen over
|battle| tiana.........................[Here Instead
|battle| yosh.........................[Of the pop up

this would stop it so hitting F5 would only reload the page and not the link you clicked onto.

just an idea

(like i always say :-/

)

Edited by INSK, Aug 5 2009, 04:25 PM.

MY MSN DELETED ALL CONTACTS ADD ME IF YOU HAD ME: THING0NE@LIVE.COM

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zelda

Aug 5 2009, 04:38 PM Post #10

Florist

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Welcome to the world of convinience, without getting tennis elbow or cramp in your finger.

That's right, i present to you a variable timer!. Not only do i provide windows vista users with a variable timer, but also a brief manual on how to use it! Find your target, kill your target, set your timer to 4.45, get on with whatever work you were doing untill the timer flashes, giving you 15seconds to get your kill.

VOILA, f5'ing reduced by around 75%.

*sigh.

LA wont die with yosh running it.

Zoid

Aug 5 2009, 06:51 PM Post #11

Coppersmith

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Mhuahaha
Aug 5 2009, 03:23 PM
I am not sure about model 1 myself. It will make the game way too easy for some. If you had a very weak player, you'd have many players just spamming on that one guy. The limited amount of kills you can get on that guy mean you probably have to spend all day working on it. You will most likely miss out on a kill as well.

If you implement model 1, you will be able to just kill him whenever you please. Well, it would be only natural to implement something so you wont be able to kill that one person around 150 times in five minutes, but still, it requires very little patience. So, this will actually make spamming a lot easier. I'd rather have just spam killing target be the constant f5'ing, waiting for a target to come up, hopefully being able to kill it....than just waiting for five minutes, see whether your target has ressurected yet, kill, repeat.

In my view, it isn't the fighting for kills which is a problem. It is the fact that players with too much time on their hands can become way better than others just by spamming the same target for ages. I still don't think this is a bad thing myself though. Anyway, the first model will not tackle that problem. The second one might, but with some adjustments. Instead of having one rollover, have one every 4 hours and let the counter pop back to 25 or something. This will at least give a pretty even playing field to both european and american players.

Still, I don't think it is all that much of a problem.

A smart player who is spamming would likely have used the profile link for the first kill and then just has to hold his f5 button down every 5 minutes. He knows exactly when the person was killed (since the game timer is frozen) and thus has a massive advantage over anyone else trying to kill that person...such as a casual player.

I really don't think this will help the massive spammers very much and will help non-spammers a lot. Someone determined to spam will just keep killing very carefully and if someone steals his kill, he'll just come back later (anyone who was the spam target of Cloud7 or Sub last round knows this is true).

If anything, this will help more casual players compete with the ones who are online all the time because the soft targets won't always be dead from someone spamming.

ovesh

Aug 5 2009, 06:54 PM Post #12

king of the world

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How about limiting the amount of times each player can attack another player. Say I attack Zoid make it so I can only attack him 10-20 times a day that would mean 100min only for attacking Zoid. Add this to module one.

Another good tactic would be to add something that would need you to ok if you want to F5 like in the battle screen. Or just redirect the page after each battle so you can't F5 (It is a simple IF statement )

If refresh {redirect to home page}

If you want to the code for something like that msg me

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INSK

Aug 5 2009, 07:18 PM Post #13

Draper

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ovesh
Aug 5 2009, 06:54 PM
How about limiting the amount of times each player can attack another player. Say I attack Zoid make it so I can only attack him 10-20 times a day that would mean 100min only for attacking Zoid. Add this to module one.

The downfall in that is that this would make a lot of players mad because they'd forget who all they have attacked that 10-20 times a day. i know near the end of the round i really only had about 3 targets i could attack without using pots and not having to 'battle down'.

ovesh

Another good tactic would be to add something that would need you to ok if you want to F5 like in the battle screen. Or just redirect the page after each battle so you can't F5 (It is a simple IF statement )

If refresh {redirect to home page}

If you want to the code for something like that msg me

and this would just make things harder on players causing more loss of players. you'd better of making it just refresh to the search page

but yes this would not be to hard to implment into the game i agree

MY MSN DELETED ALL CONTACTS ADD ME IF YOU HAD ME: THING0NE@LIVE.COM

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ovesh

Aug 5 2009, 07:28 PM Post #14

king of the world

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INSK you think it is easy to implant that? ha it is much more difficult then I thought at first. I think I have a solution though

Mhuahaha

Aug 5 2009, 07:52 PM Post #15

Herder

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Zoid
Aug 5 2009, 06:51 PM
A smart player who is spamming would likely have used the profile link for the first kill and then just has to hold his f5 button down every 5 minutes. He knows exactly when the person was killed (since the game timer is frozen) and thus has a massive advantage over anyone else trying to kill that person...such as a casual player.

I believe Yosh is battling that part. Inputting a timer so you wont be able to f5 like there's no tomorrow.

zoid

I really don't think this will help the massive spammers very much and will help non-spammers a lot. Someone determined to spam will just keep killing very carefully and if someone steals his kill, he'll just come back later (anyone who was the spam target of Cloud7 or Sub last round knows this is true).

If anything, this will help more casual players compete with the ones who are online all the time because the soft targets won't always be dead from someone spamming.

Hmm, do you think that it is a bad thing that people who have the time and are willing to invest it in LA have an advantage over others because of it? The first model wont level the playing field that much. If you have the time for it, you'll still end up being better. A casual player doesn't have the time to spam a weak target anyway. And....I don't see why the competing for kills is a problem, especially if you implement the timer, which is probably going to implimented anyway, you'd have a nearly level playing field anyway. I am not a spammer anyway. So I don't know the details of how it is done, so I don't know whether I can discuss this in great detail because of that.

I don't know, it seems to easy for me. Just log on and kill who you want. No interference from other players, no thrill in discovering whether you had the kill or not. That's part of the exitement of battling for me. The f5'ing also makes it too easy for the one landing the first kill though. I agree that has to be stopped. Not just for the server, but it seems like a grey area to me and it is way to prone to scripting.

Don't ask....

I AM MERELY A FORUM ADMIN. I HAVE NO IN-GAME POWERS.

Zoid

Aug 5 2009, 11:43 PM Post #16

Coppersmith

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I've always been a strong proponent of the idea that the amount of time you can invest should have nothing to do with your rank, in any game, it's what you do with that time. People like to use sports analogies to say that's not realistic and those with more time always get an advantage, but I disagree.

For example, take basketball. Players get better at different rates, everyone who's ever played the game knows this. Player X may need to practice for 1000 hours to hit 70% of his free throws while player Y needs to practice for 2000 hours to hit the same percentage. Obviously there is an inherent advantage to being able to practice more, but at the end of the day, what still matters is how well you can shoot, not how much time you put in shooting.

Relating this to LA, there is no other way to get the advantage of spamming other than to sit there for hours and spam. A player can be pretty horrible but if he has time to spam a soft target, he'll gain a lot of ground over people who know more and are just plain more knowledgeable about the game. It would be as if you were playing a basketball game and you scored more points for each basket the more you practiced, regardless of how well you shot.

Strategy should dominate the game, not time invested. Time invested should (and does) lead to good strategy, but there should never be an inherent advantage to being able to play more.

EDIT:
Also, I should note that for myself and most people I've known, fighting and being unsure if you're going to get the kill is annoying, not exhilarating as you describe. I hate planning out my attack runs carefully with my RL schedule, potioning up, then 3 kills in someone else comes online and starts killing my targets, making it so that I have to constantly refresh the search window and battle screens to get my kills in.

I posted this originally more to develop the idea though, not so much to debate it. It's far from complete as is, it's just my first thought.

Edited by Zoid, Aug 5 2009, 11:46 PM.

Brithor

Aug 6 2009, 12:00 AM Post #17

Lil' Chico

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Zoid
Aug 5 2009, 11:43 PM
I've always been a strong proponent of the idea that the amount of time you can invest should have nothing to do with your rank, in any game, it's what you do with that time. People like to use sports analogies to say that's not realistic and those with more time always get an advantage, but I disagree.

This is the best thing I've ever read in this forum.

Mhuahaha

Aug 6 2009, 12:09 AM Post #18

Herder

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Hmm, wouldn't a logical way to lessen that be to increase the amount of ways we can build our character? Now I am not talking about adding more classes. Though that would be a way(get that dreaded finishing move out and we'll talk about it). No, even more daring.....add another attribute point. Or two.

A daring suggestion could be....adding an attribute point called accuracy. Have strength make up your max attack, have your max attack and minimum attack be raised by your weapon for a set percentage.....but have accuracy determin the range in which you hit. What accuracy does though, should depend on your max strength. Strength/accuracy x 1 = Amount by which the minimum damage is raised.

Just an idea.

Don't ask....

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[NL]Freak

Aug 6 2009, 02:54 AM Post #19

Bookkeeper

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model one sounds good, i say 1 person is alowed to spam somebody not more than 25 times a day:)

Spamming is an art

Zoid

Aug 6 2009, 04:29 AM Post #20

Coppersmith

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Note also that I've suggested several methods to limit spamming without actually putting a hard limit on it (in my big list of suggestions thread). These mostly involve giving the spammee some advantage when attacking the spammer or just flat out making the spammer more vulnerable to attack, such as the suggestion that for a certain period after a threshold is of spam is passed, the spammer is worth 8 warpoints to everyone, regardless of clan wars.

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