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| Class Balance? | |
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| Topic Started: Jul 14 2009, 11:48 AM (341 Views) | |
| Xclusive | Jul 14 2009, 11:48 AM Post #1 |
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Moneylender
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I made some changes, who first take out the leet-ness of Rogues, increase the power of warriors (their changes will give them more opportunity in topranks because they get more Attributes). And some increase to the trader, cause all they got was a decrease since last round, in which they didn't really stand chance in the ranks. Please give comments! First class Level 10 You now have the oppertunity to improve your character and decide what class and main skill you want to improve. The path you decide to walk from here shall echo thru eternity Warrior Warrior: Starts with 5 extra strength. Ability: Healing. Rogue Rogue: Starts with 3 extra agility. Ability: Finishing Move. Tradesman Tradesman: Starts with 15 extra skillspoints and 15 extra life. Ability: economy. Healing: 1/3 of life is healed after each fight. Finishing Move: If your opponent is below 15% health. Dealing 2x damage. economy: 10% extra gain from Fishing, Mining and income Second class Level 25 As you for the last time visit you home village before the final battle you can decide to train one of your skills even more. Which path shall you take The tradesman can become: Tradesman Miner: Gets 10 extra lifepoints and 20 extra skillspoints. Ability: Mining or Tradesman Fisherman: Gets 10 extra lifepoints and 20 extra skillspoints. Ability: Fishing Mining: 15% extra gain from Mining (Total 25% gain) Fishing: 15% extra gain from Fishing (Total 25% gain) The rogue can become: Rogue Assassin: Gets 5 extra agility or Rogue Operative: Gets 2 extra agility. Ability: Master finishing Move Master finishing Move: If your opponent is below 20% health. Dealing x3 damage. The warrior can become: Warrior Soldier: Gets 7 extra strength or Warrior Berserker: Gets 3 extra strength. Ability: Master healing Master healing: 2/3 of life is healed after each fight. |
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| INSK | Jul 14 2009, 04:14 PM Post #2 |
Draper
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it looks good to me. I know i'm a little ticked at how beat the tradesman got. a total of 3AP all together..thats what rogue gets just for become a rouge :S. but i know that yosh is working on evening it out so still appears good  Giving the tradesman maybe another 5 or 10 life at lvl 10 + a few more skill points would even it out in my opinion. |
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| Xclusive | Jul 14 2009, 05:08 PM Post #3 |
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Moneylender
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What do you mean with that? |
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| Glogorskus | Jul 14 2009, 06:16 PM Post #4 |
Harrier
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so are the numbers in the first post of the thread official or suggestion? 12 total ability points (str) for the warrior, 7 (agi) for the rogue and 5 (25 life) for the tradesman? seems that the ability points should be tossed alltogether. then examine the balancing of the skills. You want balance? Instead of classes, let players have X# of points to spread out between abilities and skills to start. Each level attained continues to grant 4 abililty and 8 skill points. Then people can play however they wish. At level 10, 20, 30 etc.. allow people to pick a class type skill without limiting them to one type of class. At level 10, you can choose a first tier skill from any class. FM, Heal, or skill point bonus, (can be used for income, fishing, mining,m stealth.. pretty much any financial related skill) At L20 (or other level) allow players to choose a second tier skill in the same class as the first OR a first tier skill from a different class. The idea is at every 10 levels a player can diversify into a second class or specialize as they choose. obviously the higher the tier of the class reward, the more effect it has on gameplay. I believe this is the only way to truly balance the classes. allow players elements from all three and people will see it as a benefit and not have to suffer for a poor choice on day 10 of a three month long round! If you have access to all skills, you cannot complain about unbalanced classes. Edited to correct ability points for tradesman to amount in initial post of thread. Edited by Glogorskus, Jul 14 2009, 06:19 PM.
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| I am Glogorskus, and I approved this message | |
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| Xclusive | Jul 14 2009, 06:26 PM Post #5 |
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Moneylender
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I like it. But there should be more then 3 options I think at level 10, because if you want multiple level 1 tiers you are in a lack of choice, but the idea is great =] |
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| ovesh | Jul 14 2009, 06:59 PM Post #6 |
king of the world
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Glog I love you a great idea, needs to be added to a little but it is exactly what I would like to see |
 I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness. We live in a society where pizza gets to your house before the police. Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. Having sex is like playing bridge. If you don't have a good partner, you'd better have a good hand. | |
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| Zoid | Jul 14 2009, 09:09 PM Post #7 |
Coppersmith
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I definitely like this idea. The biggest advantage is that if you chose "poorly", you'd only have 10 levels in which you're underpowered instead of an entire round. It would also allow many more things to be added without worrying too heavily about balance. You'd want them to be as balanced as possible so everyone doesn't just go for the FM at level 10, income at 20, fishing at 30 etc, but since everyone has access to the same abilities the entire round (every 10 levels or so), it's nowhere near as big an issue. |
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| ovesh | Jul 14 2009, 09:21 PM Post #8 |
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king of the world
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now we need to start adding more stuff to choose from 
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I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness. We live in a society where pizza gets to your house before the police. Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. Having sex is like playing bridge. If you don't have a good partner, you'd better have a good hand. | |
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| Zoid | Jul 14 2009, 10:04 PM Post #9 |
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Coppersmith
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Not necessarily. Ideally it would be neat to have it so they're all equal and don't depend on one another, but right now it could just be set so you need to go 2 deep to get stuff. For instance, you couldn't get the master finishing move without having the finishing move first and you couldn't get +15% fishing without having +10% income. The big question is whether it would be better to do a diablo 2-style talent tree where you have to get the upper talents in order to work your way to the lower (and more powerful) ones or if you just want to allow people to cherry pick whatever they want. |
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| ovesh | Jul 14 2009, 10:31 PM Post #10 |
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king of the world
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Diablo 2 style that would rock actually let's steal some ideas from them I have always wanted to add magic and stuff (I guess to complicated) but why not add a boost thing like: War cry : 20% of increasing str for a battle etc... |
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I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness. We live in a society where pizza gets to your house before the police. Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. Having sex is like playing bridge. If you don't have a good partner, you'd better have a good hand. | |
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| Glogorskus | Jul 14 2009, 10:37 PM Post #11 |
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Harrier
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Good comparison Zoid. Thats pretty much what I had in mind. It just took me a gazillion words to try to describe it. the tree style abilities coupled with removal of ability points (or include them as an option?) will take care of balancing problems and still allow the features to vary gameplay. |
| I am Glogorskus, and I approved this message | |
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| forkU | Jul 15 2009, 04:12 AM Post #12 |
Cavalier
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you know i like that idea, and thats not just because i still play diablo2 haha! Every ten levels you pick a new skill and they can stack. Warrior- Heal +1/4 life after battle, plus 1/4 every upgrade, so 1/2, than 3/4, than 1, so possibly level 4 max Rogue- Finishing move, 15% 2X damage, +5% and .5x damage, so lvl 4 max upgrade is 30% and 3.5X damage Trade- Fishing and mining 10%, upgrades +10% mining or fishing. No maximum |
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| Mhuahaha | Jul 15 2009, 11:40 AM Post #13 |
Herder
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This is an idea I can side by. I agree with Zoid that they'd also have to be balanced slightly to allow more freedom. But the idea is great. |
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| Zink | Jul 16 2009, 12:42 AM Post #14 |
Drawer
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ok that just made rogues stronger and warriors weaker.... |
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| Glogorskus | Jul 16 2009, 01:12 AM Post #15 |
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Harrier
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Zink, I believe you missed the main point... let players build skills from all the classes so there is no longer a problem about balance. Also the ability points would no longer part of the class upgrades as well, unless they are offered as a tiered skill. at your first class choice you pick a basic skill from any class. then at the next choice you can EITHER pick another basic skill from a separate class or upgrade the skill in your current class. Allow for more class upgrades by allowing a choice at every 10 levels. cap the skills at the third or fourth upgrade so you will chose a mixture of at least two different classes. This way there are no ability points advantages or disadvantages. and while some balance is required in that the first tier skills aren't more powerful than higher tiered skills, they are available to everyone to mix and build as they choose so no one choice has the dominant effect of the current system. This kind of system is less sensitive to the balancing issues currently in place. For example a player could take the finishing move at level 10, then at level 20 select healing, an income/fishing bonus or upgrade the finishing move. similar choices could be made at L30, 40, etc. I believe Forku was describing the tiers that could be built. you need the lowest level skill to progress to the next lowest in any group.. so by L 60 you could have the bottom two skills of each current class, or the bottom three of two separate classes, or a full four tier development in one class with the bottom skills of each of the other two... the combinations are up to each player so there is no longer an overwhelming long term advantage to choosing one over another. Edited by Glogorskus, Jul 16 2009, 01:15 AM.
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| I am Glogorskus, and I approved this message | |
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| Zoid | Jul 16 2009, 02:53 AM Post #16 |
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Coppersmith
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It's important to note that we're not saying class balance isn't important, it still is, it's just not game-breakingly critical as it is now. Ideally, every 1st tier skill would be as good as every other 1st tier skill and so forth, but that's nowhere near as essential as balancing classes as they stand now. If you look at a game like Diablo II (obviously extremely successful), you'll see this. Things are sort-of balanced in the trees and classes, but every talent tree has "throw-away" skill that you only get in order to get other things. Edited by Zoid, Jul 16 2009, 02:53 AM.
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| TeraHammer | Jul 16 2009, 10:10 AM Post #17 |
Forum Darling
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Which has changed in patch v1.10 and further, bringing in synergies, balancing all skills. |
| Conquering the Karmina System as Exar Kun this round | |
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| valmian | Jul 18 2009, 06:55 AM Post #18 |
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Undertaker
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I like the idea of being able to pick different abilities (based on tiers) from different classes. I think it would give greater versatility in character development and it can give everyone the opportunity to make a unique path. I think that there should be another class implemented however to chose tier abilities from. So since this is just a fast reply I will not keep this too fancy, but here are all 4 class ideas, revamped. Remember, you can pick any class, but it is like the talent tree in World of Warcraft, you need to invest in the crappy talents before you get the good ones lol. Oh, Tier 1 is level 10, tier 2 is level 25, tier 3 is level 40, so basically every 15 levels after level 10 you get to pick a new skill. Warrior: Tier 1: Warrior- +5 Strength, Healing. Healing: Recovers 50% of the warriors total health after each battle (except defensive losses). Tier 2: Warrior Beserker- +8 Strength Tier 2: Warrior Racager- +3 Strength, Master Healing. Major Healing: Heals for 66% of the warriors total health after each battle (except defensive losses). Tier 3: Warrior Mauler- +10 Strength Tier 3: Warrior Elite- +3 Strength, Master Healing Master Healing Heals for 80% of the warriors total health after each battle (except defensive losses). Rogue: Tier 1: Rogue- +4 Agility, Finishing Move. Finishing move- When you opponent's health is under 20%, you deal 150% more damage. Tier 2: Rogue Thief- +7 Agility Tier 2: Rogue Operative- +2 Agility, Master finishing move. Master Finishing move: When opponent's health is under 15%, you deal 250% more damage. (Does not stack with other finishing moves) Tier 3: Rogue Hunter- +9 Agility Tier 3: Rogue Tyrant- +2 Agility, Commander Finishing Move. Commander Finishing move- When opponents health is under 10% you deal 400% more damage. (does not stack with other finishing moves) Tradesman- Tier 1: Tradesman- 20 skills points, Economy Economy: Gains a 10% bonus income from all fishing and mining shipments. Tier 2: Wholesale Tradesman- Gain a total of 20% income from all fishing and mining shipments. Tier 2: Specialized Tradesman- 30 Skill points Tier 3: Retail Tradesman, gain a total of 30% income from all fishing and mining shipments. Tier 3: Trained Tradesman- 20 skill points, Intensity Intensity: Allows skills to be trained past 100 up to (100+X) where X is the users current level. New Class: (This idea has been thrown around before) Blacksmith Tier 1: Apprentice Blacksmith: +25 Life, General Weapon Handling General Weapon Handling: you have a 5% chance every attack to disarm your opponent from his/her next attack. Tier 2: Guardian Blacksmith- +40 life Tier 2: Weapon smith- +5 life, Advanced Weapon Handling Advanced Weapon Handling- You have a 10% chance to disarm your opponent from her/her next attack and you also have a 5% chance to block an attack with your weapons. (This is factored in after your shield does not block, it is not added). Tier 3: Blacksmith Champion- +65 Health Tier 3: +5 Health, Master Weapon Handling Master Weapon Handling- Your attack range has been reduced by 50% in the lower bracket. (Normal attack range from 2-18 changes to 6-18, and 50-100 changes to 75-100). You have a 10% chance to disarm you opponent from his/her next attack, and you have a 10% chance of weapon blocking an attack after your shield fails to block. So that is it. Maybe the blacksmith is overpowered, but I just threw ina lot of ideas and you can pick and choose, I like feedback. |
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| Zink | Jul 18 2009, 11:49 PM Post #19 |
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Drawer
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Nah...the last finishing move for rogue is unnecessary.... |
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| Zoid | Jul 19 2009, 12:51 AM Post #20 |
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Coppersmith
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Not necessarily. The beauty of having a massively customized character is people trying all kinds of crazy stuff. I could see some strategies specifically designed to use the 400% finishing move (pumping life and agility really high and not having much strength, so the finishing move doesn't do a lot of overkill). Though, I do still think that if we're going to completely redo the way the classes work, the finishing move should be removed in favor of a first strike move (an attack that a rogue gets before the battle begins). |
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