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| Religion | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 29 2009, 11:52 AM (1,292 Views) | |
| Rhino | Jul 1 2009, 03:06 AM Post #21 |
Shearman
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I had this debate with sahara while lying in bed before we went to sleep, i am with K-B & Brithor on this. I dont believe in god and all that one bit and its like what said before, if god created everything who created god? Its no good saying, what started the first explosion to set off the chain events to enable the earth to be created because it can be countered with what created god? Cause obviously if the earth cant just magically appear then niether can god... as it doesnt add up at all. Anyways, im a firm believer that there is other life we havent discovered yet in a distant universe which is probably identical in some way to earth and humans. We shall see(or not, as it will probably be hundreds of years before they discover that) Actually i think this is another topic for debate - Aliens? Is there life out there, alot of people have different opinions on that so K-B/whoever wants to start that topic up can do haha. Anyways, whatever sahara said to me about jesus and god there is a logical explanation to counter her argument with. So in my opinion i can only base god and jesus etc in the "myth/unsolved" part of my brain. I also agree with the first couple of posts that state that the bible was just created by really intelligent people who wanted power... they probably never dreamed it would last so long lol. |
When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth./EPIC | |
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| JRich | Jul 1 2009, 03:32 AM Post #22 |
Futurist
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Well you have your beliefs and i have mine. I'm an active Christian and I take pride in it and what i believe. Neither side really has any UNDENYABLE truth other than I believe this and I believe that. I'm not gonna ever change my mind |
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| TeraHammer | Jul 1 2009, 04:51 AM Post #23 |
Forum Darling
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Putting it simple; "Can you trust one Book as the one and only truth?" Group A: ofcourse! Group B: ofcourse not! and there is no further fruitful discussion possible between these groups. Fortunaly, since after the middle ages, Group B has been increasing and increasing. My opinion on the bible is thats a great book with guides on how to behave and make eachother happy. But on history and science, it sucks balls. And I have to add this: I really despise the egocentric people who think Mankind is what its all about, and that only the Christians (or any other human faith) of Mankind go to heaven and the rest may rot in hell. /bitchslap to them Edited by TeraHammer, Jul 1 2009, 04:57 AM.
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| Conquering the Karmina System as Exar Kun this round | |
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| JRich | Jul 1 2009, 05:02 AM Post #24 |
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Futurist
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Tera ,that is what i believe but not because i hate nonbelievers... I love you guys (in a non gay way)  ... But its just thats what my religion is
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| TeraHammer | Jul 1 2009, 05:09 AM Post #25 |
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Forum Darling
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Yeah and there the discussion ends. But I think its arrogant and mean that you can believe such a thing. |
| Conquering the Karmina System as Exar Kun this round | |
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| JRich | Jul 1 2009, 05:17 AM Post #26 |
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Futurist
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Well you have your beliefs and I have mine. My religion doesn't say if you don't believe then you are a bad person. It simply says if you don't believe then you probably won't go to heaven. And if you don't believe then you don't believe in heaven so it shouldn't bother you. I'm not trying to be mean or arrogant...I'm just trying to explain what my religion lets me believe. If there isn't anything after life and it is all fake then at least when my time comes I feel ease in my heart and I'm not afraid to die. |
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| ellipsis | Jul 1 2009, 08:39 AM Post #27 |
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Slater
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There is no right and wrong side to this argument. It's true that those in Group A (to borrow from TeraHammer) believe one thing and those in Group B believe the opposite, but since there is no definitive answer to the question, the debate is utterly pointless. The religious people believe they're right and the non-religious believe they're right, and in the end, the only result is a lot of pissed off individuals on both sides. I will shed a little history on the subject of Christianity because K-B brought up Zeitgeist. However flawed the movie is in some respects, it is still more or less factually based depending on how far on a limb you're willing to go. A) The Roman emperor Constantine converted the empire to Christianity in 313 C.E. (Common Era). Contrary to popular belief, this was not an actual conversion, but an edict (the Edict of Milan) which no longer penalized citizens for professing their belief in Christianity. B) After this time, Christianity gained some ground throughout the vast empire, and efforts began to make the religion more appealing to "non-believers." This meant incorporating Pegan elements such as holidays (Christmas and Easter which fall on or near the Winter Solstice and Spring Equinox) into the religion. This is mentioned in the Zeitgeist movie. C) The Council of Nicaea (325 C.E.) was the first of seven (depending on what you accept as fact) councils called with the sole purpose of determining exactly what was to be held as tenets of the Christian faith. This is where the Nicaean Creed comes from. Without these councils the faith may very well be entirely different today. D) For centuries, the Catholic Church had complete discretion over which books of the bible were "real" and which books were "fake." (one thing Dan Brown did get right) The bible does teach basic morality, that I will not argue. It is the institutionalization of religion I have a problem with. If you believe in god, fine. Good for you. If you don't, that's cool too. The fact of the matter is that you can still learn to be a good, decent, kind human being without ever setting foot inside a church. As the French would say, "laisse faire" (hope i spelled that right )And, by the way, I'm not afraid to die either. When it's time, it's time. Whatever happens, my brain won't be around to let me know... Edited by ellipsis, Jul 1 2009, 08:46 AM.
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| Brithor | Jul 1 2009, 09:05 AM Post #28 |
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Lil' Chico
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SEE? I MAKE GOOD THREADS. |
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| Brithor | Jul 1 2009, 09:46 AM Post #29 |
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Lil' Chico
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And the difference is? Turning Water into Wine seems more like fairground superpowers than miracle to me.
Yes, you are right. I didn't start this looking to 'convert' (or maybe 'disconvert'? lol) anyone. I know that's not possible. I just wanted a good debate, something worthy of the CONFLICTS forum. So, as long as this doesn't turn into a flame-war it's cool.
Well I think that a Big Bang is a much more likely source of everything than 'god'. Because there is some evidence of the first ACTUALLY HAPPENING. - 1. Expanding universe: How do you explain the fact that the universe is expanding if you don't believe in the Big Bang? - 2. Think of it this way. The Earth and all the matter in the universe is ''debris'' from the Big Bang. Do you know how planets and other astronomical objects are formed? A giant cloud of 'space dust' (that is nothing but more debris) comes together until the gravity and pressure within it is so big that it packs all the debris together, forming one big, solid mass.
Yes, yes I was over blowing it but the gist of what I said is the same. But think about what you just wrote. Jesus powers were exagerated some. Isn't it possible that he was such a good person and had so good intentions and did so much good in the world that he was attributed powers that he DIDN'T have? Isn't that a little bit more logical than doing magic?
Just so you know. The Big Bang took place LONG BEFORE your god supposedly 'created the Earth'. That doesn't mean that it is not valid.
This is just a lame point. Hahaha. |
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| Smekkie | Jul 1 2009, 09:57 AM Post #30 |
Pursemaker
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LOL. You're seriously insane, stupid and disrespectfull if you make discussions about religion. Everybody believes what he wants, and you should respect that. Everyone is 100% right in this thread anyway. Brithor, you're kinda insulting. But you don't care about that anyhow, I guess. |
| Once Justice League, Always Justice League. | |
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| INSK | Jul 1 2009, 11:07 AM Post #31 |
Draper
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haha you get use to brithors personality haha I mean i usually can tell if what he's saying(through the insults) haaha But yeah either way i agree with ellipsis and smekkie. Not one of us have our true proof as to what really happened and so we base it off of our own morals and beleifs. However I was raised learning jesus' words, "If you shall deny me, I shall deny you in heaven". so however it may be I will stick strong to my faith  But I dont blame any of you for feeling the way you do. That is way it is called "being saved" sooner or later if your meant to beleive you will believe.Also it all comes down to is what came 1st? There had to be something that came 1st. That is what we all debate about. What came 1st? |
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| Brithor | Jul 1 2009, 12:53 PM Post #32 |
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Lil' Chico
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WTF are you talking about. What's 'insane, stupid and disrespectful' about wanting a debate? I've never said that it's wrong to be a christian, a jew or any other religion. I'm just stating my views on how it is all smoke. If you don't like it well, go back to your cave. |
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| Freelinker | Jul 1 2009, 01:25 PM Post #33 |
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Courier
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Yes, I do believe in a creator, ironically the big bang theory actually supports creationism. But I know already that every post will be based on emotions nothing else really, which makes this debate already useless. But then again, how many of us are that specialized and worthy to take part in such discussion. |
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| TeraHammer | Jul 1 2009, 01:54 PM Post #34 |
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Forum Darling
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Jrich/ISNK let me ask you a question. Do you believe in the bible literally as a book of truth? If so how can you explain that Caïn (son of Adam and Eve) went to other inhabited countries where he finds his wife? It does not make sense if Adam and Eve are God's only created humans. |
| Conquering the Karmina System as Exar Kun this round | |
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| Brithor | Jul 1 2009, 02:48 PM Post #35 |
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Lil' Chico
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How does the Big Bang support creationism? Every person with an opinion is worthy of debating it. |
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| TeraHammer | Jul 1 2009, 03:43 PM Post #36 |
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Forum Darling
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Its possible that God created the Big Bang, combining the two views. |
| Conquering the Karmina System as Exar Kun this round | |
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| K-B | Jul 1 2009, 03:45 PM Post #37 |
Farrier
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Either God exists or God doesn't exist. Both statements disagree with each other, therefore they cannot both be right. |
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| Smekkie | Jul 1 2009, 03:53 PM Post #38 |
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Pursemaker
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At least I know this: It's completely unneccesary to have this 'discussion'. One lesson: you don't have to be right to believe. Byebye. |
| Once Justice League, Always Justice League. | |
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| K-B | Jul 1 2009, 03:58 PM Post #39 |
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Farrier
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Ok, you're right. It is wrong and unnecessary to have a discussion such as this. In your eyes. I believe these discussions are just golden, something this forum has been lacking lately - great discussions. Therefore, it is not wrong to have this discussion. It is right to have this discussion. In my eyes. |
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| Brithor | Jul 1 2009, 04:15 PM Post #40 |
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Lil' Chico
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Why is it unnecessary? I really don't get why you're saying that. If you don't like what you're reading well don't read it. There's nothing wrong about we having this discussion. I find it pretty interesting tbh. |
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