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XXII Olympic Winter Games; Sochi, Russia
Topic Started: Feb 7 2014, 03:10 PM (208,207 Views)
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Composite Image by The New York Times

The New York Times has recently published the above photographs, comparing the figure skating jumps executed by Yuna Kim and Adelia Sotnikova at the 2014 Sochi Olympics Ladies Free Event.
Upon seeing this, one would make an immediate conclusion that the skater above (Adelina Sotnikova, RUS) jumps higher than the one below (Yuna Kim, KOR) .

However, there are a number of issues with these photographs.


The Rebuttal of The New York Times Article

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First is the fundamental difference in their jumps.
Sotnikova on the top is executing a 2A-3T (Double Axel-Triple Loop) combination, and Kim a 3S-2T (Triple Salchow-Double Toe Loop) combination.
They are two completely different TYPES of jumps and their numbers of rotations differ as well.
Moreover, two skaters are executing their jumps at different places on the ice. This of course would mean that the angle and the direction in which the photographs were taken differed as well.
Taking these facts into consideration, it becomes readily evident that comparing two different photographs of two different types of jumping combination is a pointless exercise.


Secondly, there is a major scale discrepancy.
According to the Sochi Olympics’ official website, Sotnikova is 1.63m (5’4“); Kim is 1.65m(5’5”).
Sotnikova is shorter than Kim. But in the photos below used by NYT, she is scaled to 3cm while Kim is scaled to 2.8cm.

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The fact that Sotnikova appears bigger in the photo means that there is a scale discrepancy in the two photos used by NYT.

Why this is important? It's because this scale discrepancy creates this much visual error, as seen in the images below we are providing.

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This much scale discrepancy is enough to make Sotnikova's jump look bigger than it really was and of course than Kim's.
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Feb 25 2014, 02:13 PM
Composite Image by The New York Times
Next, the poor compositing. Let's start with enlarging the photo.

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Then zoom in.

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Notice the choppy stitching that almost looks as if the image was nudged up a bit at the apogee of her jump trajectory?

This kind of choppiness in the stitching was not seen in any other part of Sotnikova's photo. Nor was it seen in Kim's photo, which overall was stitched together pretty smoothly.




Lastly, the line with an arrow used in the NYT's image to illustrate the jump path, the flow and the height.
The first arrow-line in Sotnikova's image has a wrong starting point. It starts from her right leg which is the free leg(kicked to the back and swinging in the air, in preparation for the jump).
The actual take off didn't happen from that toe point as illustrated in NYT's image.

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Having that leg included as the starting point, the arrow-line was drawn to exaggerate the height of her jump path.
With the help of the poor stitching mentioned above, this image used by New York Times does not accurately illustrate the flow and the height of Sotnikova's jump path. If anything, it glamorized them, inaccurately.



In using these photographs, New York Times wrote: 'Sotnikova’s combination had a much higher base value because she chose to do the most difficult double jump, the double axel. She received high marks for her good flow, height and distance.', 'The double jump Kim chose is one of the easiest, so it has a low base value. The entry was simple, and the jump ended with little speed.'


If the New York Times was to demonstrate the total difference between the difficulty of Sotnikova and Kim's total jump elements, the analysis should have been based on ALL the jumps that Sotnikova and Kim each did and didn't do.
If the New York Times was to demonstrate the difference in the quality and execution of the jumps, they should have made the image comparison using the jumps that Sotnikova and Kim both did, such as 3Lz-3T, 3F, 3S, 2A in the free program.



These are the flaws in the supporting images used by New York Times.
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Feb 25 2014, 02:15 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 02:13 PM
Composite Image by The New York Times
Now, let's take a look at the article "How Sotnikova Beat Kim, Move by Move".

The article included the following table to explain "where Sotnikova scored higher".

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Composite Image by The New York Times


The major flaw here: this table is using the COMBINED points of the base value and the GOE, the grade given by the judges based on how well THE JUDGES THOUGHT the element was executed at the time of performance.
Even though as we have all heard many, many times this week, the judging is "subjectively" done.


Therefore, we created the following table to show only the base value.

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(The reason why the step and spin elements are not included in this chart will be explained later.)

Please note that unlike New York Times' table, this table includes the base values from both short and free programs. That is because as Brian Boitano has said in his interview with CNN, we also believe that "Kim's score should not have been so close to Sotnikova's after the short program and that is the gap that should not have been bridged so that Yuna Kim would have been a two time Olympic champion."
(http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/sports/2014/02/22/erin-intv-sale-boitano-sochi-figure-skating-controversy.cnn.html)


Also notice that even though Kim's short program was "more difficult" judging from the base value of the jump elements that advances Sotnikova's by 1.90 points,
this didn't seem to have been reflected as loyally as what those who defend Sotnikova's free program score like to say, since the final scores after the short program were only separated by 0.28 in Kim's advantange.


The New York Times' claim that Sotnikova won because "her combination had a much higher base value because she chose to do the most difficult double jump (while) the double jump Kim chose is one of the easiest, so it has a low base value",
therefore; faces a challenge to establish itself especially given that Kim's short program had a higher base value.

No, Sotnikova didn't win by the 5.48 total point difference because her program was "more difficult". She won because the judges "subjectively" unanimously thought that she executed her elements EXCEEDINGLY BETTER than Kim,
then the reigning Olympic Champion and the current world champion, and added that much GOE to her protocol.

Out of the 108 different GOE pts received from the nine judges on the twelve elements in free skating, Sotnikova received a whooping thirty-three 3 GOE pts(the highest), and only nine of the 1 GOE pts.
While many believe that Kim's free skating was near perfect, only thirtheen of the Kim's was marked with 3 GOE pts by the judges. Forty-one of them was marked with 1 GOE pts.




So, in spite of all this, does the NYT article still hold credibility in your eyes?


For those who say yes, I'd like to present another piece of data.
(Actually, this is the part that just might be the highlight)
After watching this particular video and reading these materials, if you still have doubts as to whether the NYT article was being truthful or otherwise, I'd certainly like to hear from you.

video http://youtu.be/5cVW0h6U3D4
Was scoring for the ladies figure skating acceptable? http://www.feverskating.com/fevers/64956111
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GOEs are more important than base values. Sotnikova flutzed her lutz. That alone probably would have made up the difference in the base values.
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It's absolutely ludicrous to me that Sotnikova's PCS is a mere 0.09 away from Kim's. Even more, it is higher than Kostner's, and 5 points higher than Mao's. Really? Some kid who has no understanding of the artistry of the sport and who skates like a wild animal has her PCS jump to the level of the top skaters? These girls have spent years building on the artistry and have clearly put thought into that component of their program.
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Feb 25 2014, 02:13 PM
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I'm not reading all or any of this shit, but Adelina has some muscular legs.
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Feb 25 2014, 02:31 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 02:13 PM
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I'm not reading all or any of this shit, but Adelina has some muscular legs.
The Fever Skating and Wire articles are actually good journalism, especially the Wire article. It raises the questions, something that journalist do far to little of.
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Feb 25 2014, 02:31 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 02:13 PM
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I'm not reading all or any of this shit, but Adelina has some muscular legs.
She also has an underserved gold medal. From now on, either she drops back to earth or she keeps getting inflated scores because the precedent has been set. We'll see.
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Ladies, I don't care about the articles or the rigging, I'm not Yuna or Adelina. Move on, the Olympics ended two days ago and the results will stay.
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Feb 25 2014, 02:38 PM
Ladies, I don't care about the articles or the rigging, I'm not Yuna or Adelina. Move on, the Olympics ended two days ago and the results will stay.
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Feb 25 2014, 01:16 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 01:08 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 01:07 PM

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It's over move on, get over it.
The use of your Get over it statement is not used in the right place. Something fucked up like Figure Skating Sochi Olympics's injustice needs justice.
All injustice needs justice.

x 10000
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Feb 25 2014, 02:38 PM
Ladies, I don't care about the articles or the rigging, I'm not Yuna or Adelina. Move on, the Olympics ended two days ago and the results will stay.
Easy for you to say but for those who watched it happened, it's not as simple as that. It's all about dignity and what is right and wrong and who deserves to win what award.
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Feb 25 2014, 02:42 PM
All injustice needs justice.

x 10000
Cool, but that's not reality. In reality, injustice is excused and accepted. Get over it, she's keeping that gold medal.
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Feb 25 2014, 02:42 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 02:38 PM
Ladies, I don't care about the articles or the rigging, I'm not Yuna or Adelina. Move on, the Olympics ended two days ago and the results will stay.
Easy for you to say but for those who watched it happened, it's not as simple as that. It's all about dignity and what is right and wrong and who deserves to win what award.
It's Russia. There is no dignity. What is right is what Russia says is right.
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Feb 25 2014, 02:45 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 02:42 PM
All injustice needs justice.

x 10000
Cool, but that's not reality. In reality, injustice is excused and accepted. Get over it, she's keeping that gold medal.
She should thank her lucky stars that Yulia fell. She was the one that was supposed to be handed the gold.
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Anyway, Yuna Queen is a real Queen.

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Feb 25 2014, 02:45 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 02:42 PM
All injustice needs justice.

x 10000
Cool, but that's not reality. In reality, injustice is excused and accepted. Get over it, she's keeping that gold medal.
Yes, injustice is accepted everywhere, but I don't think it's wrong to ask the questions. It's a losing battle, but some people don't mind.
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Quote:
 
Ladies, I don't care about the articles or the rigging, I'm not Yuna or Adelina. Move on, the Olympics ended two days ago and the results will stay.


nobody cares you don't care. this was a travesty, and if we want to keep discussing it, we will. you're welcome to scroll down.

thanks to the anon for refuting the nyt article. i wonder why nyt would try to 'help' covering it up?
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Feb 25 2014, 02:55 PM
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Ladies, I don't care about the articles or the rigging, I'm not Yuna or Adelina. Move on, the Olympics ended two days ago and the results will stay.


nobody cares you don't care. this was a travesty, and if we want to keep discussing it, we will. you're welcome to scroll down.

thanks to the anon for refuting the nyt article. i wonder why nyt would try to 'help' covering it up?
All I wanted to do was make a simple comment about Adelina. I specifically put "I'm not reading all or any of this shit" and yet, I get stupid responses about "this shit". If nobody cared that I didn't care, I wouldn't have have got dramatic responses about this injustice. Also, nobody cares that you don't care that I don't care, etc.
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Feb 25 2014, 03:06 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 02:55 PM
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Ladies, I don't care about the articles or the rigging, I'm not Yuna or Adelina. Move on, the Olympics ended two days ago and the results will stay.


nobody cares you don't care. this was a travesty, and if we want to keep discussing it, we will. you're welcome to scroll down.

thanks to the anon for refuting the nyt article. i wonder why nyt would try to 'help' covering it up?
All I wanted to do was make a simple comment about Adelina. I specifically put "I'm not reading all or any of this shit" and yet, I get stupid responses about "this shit". If nobody cared that I didn't care, I wouldn't have have got dramatic responses about this injustice. Also, nobody cares that you don't care that I don't care, etc.
Well, you could have just made your comment without calling the article/post shit. That probably would have helped, no?
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Feb 25 2014, 02:45 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 02:42 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 02:38 PM
Ladies, I don't care about the articles or the rigging, I'm not Yuna or Adelina. Move on, the Olympics ended two days ago and the results will stay.
Easy for you to say but for those who watched it happened, it's not as simple as that. It's all about dignity and what is right and wrong and who deserves to win what award.
It's Russia. There is no dignity. What is right is what Russia says is right.
Scary :-/
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Quote:
 
All I wanted to do was make a simple comment about Adelina. I specifically put "I'm not reading all or any of this shit" and yet, I get stupid responses about "this shit". If nobody cared that I didn't care, I wouldn't have have got dramatic responses about this injustice. Also, nobody cares that you don't care that I don't care, etc.


well, since the olympics are over for you and you want to "move on", why don't you leave the thread behind and let the people who want to talk about the olympics do that?
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Feb 25 2014, 02:55 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 02:45 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 02:42 PM
All injustice needs justice.

x 10000
Cool, but that's not reality. In reality, injustice is excused and accepted. Get over it, she's keeping that gold medal.
Yes, injustice is accepted everywhere, but I don't think it's wrong to ask the questions. It's a losing battle, but some people don't mind.
Considering this is a lesbian board and that many LGBT people still suffer real injustice in this world, even in oh so civilized and modern USA (I'm Asian-American fwiw) and Western Europe, can we please lay off calling this an "injustice".

Get some perspective, people.
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isn't going to be Paralympics in march?
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Feb 25 2014, 03:16 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 02:55 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 02:45 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Yes, injustice is accepted everywhere, but I don't think it's wrong to ask the questions. It's a losing battle, but some people don't mind.
Considering this is a lesbian board and that many LGBT people still suffer real injustice in this world, even in oh so civilized and modern USA (I'm Asian-American fwiw) and Western Europe, can we please lay off calling this an "injustice".

Get some perspective, people.
I don't see the need for people to specify their ethnicity here.
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Feb 25 2014, 03:14 PM
Quote:
 
All I wanted to do was make a simple comment about Adelina. I specifically put "I'm not reading all or any of this shit" and yet, I get stupid responses about "this shit". If nobody cared that I didn't care, I wouldn't have have got dramatic responses about this injustice. Also, nobody cares that you don't care that I don't care, etc.


well, since the olympics are over for you and you want to "move on", why don't you leave the thread behind and let the people who want to talk about the olympics do that?
I never said anybody wasn't allowed to discuss to this "injustice". I just don't like being bombarded with this mess. Also, stop pretending like you all care about the world's injustices because this isn't one of them. Focus your humanitarian interests on something else.
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Feb 25 2014, 03:16 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 02:55 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 02:45 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Yes, injustice is accepted everywhere, but I don't think it's wrong to ask the questions. It's a losing battle, but some people don't mind.
Considering this is a lesbian board and that many LGBT people still suffer real injustice in this world, even in oh so civilized and modern USA (I'm Asian-American fwiw) and Western Europe, can we please lay off calling this an "injustice".

Get some perspective, people.
Lol, you beat me to it. Some of you are acting like the poor girl got away with murder.
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http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21595890-obscure-gas-improves-athletes-performance-breathe-it
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why do they keep focusing on technical!!!? that doesn't address how she got anywhere near kim in the component score. that's the part that is screwed, not the technical stuff. kim should have more than made of the difference in component. just like tara and johnny did, they completely swept that part under the rug. johnny even acknowledged that was where the dispute was, after spending an hour explaining the technical, and STILL swept it under the rug. for some reason these people are being told by the figure skating body that they dont want the component side of their scoring talked about. cause they know it's shady as hell and wide open to corruption.
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Feb 25 2014, 03:20 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 03:16 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 02:55 PM

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Considering this is a lesbian board and that many LGBT people still suffer real injustice in this world, even in oh so civilized and modern USA (I'm Asian-American fwiw) and Western Europe, can we please lay off calling this an "injustice".

Get some perspective, people.
Lol, you beat me to it. Some of you are acting like the poor girl got away with murder.
lol so true! :lol:
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Feb 25 2014, 02:52 PM
Anyway, Yuna Queen is a real Queen.

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Where are these gifs from? Tia
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Feb 25 2014, 03:18 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 03:16 PM
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Feb 25 2014, 02:55 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Considering this is a lesbian board and that many LGBT people still suffer real injustice in this world, even in oh so civilized and modern USA (I'm Asian-American fwiw) and Western Europe, can we please lay off calling this an "injustice".

Get some perspective, people.
I don't see the need for people to specify their ethnicity here.
I point out my nationality only because I called out the USA despite the fact an American I love my country and wouldn't want to live anywhere else. Moreover, there is misconception that the people who are willing to let this whole Adelina winning the gold medal thing go is Russian or biased towards Russia.
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I don't get it. If you don't care enough about the Winter Olympics to care that the entire medal awarding system is under suspicion, why would you care enough to still be in the Winter Olympics thread telling people what not to talk about?
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Feb 25 2014, 03:28 PM
why do they keep focusing on technical!!!? that doesn't address how she got anywhere near kim in the component score. that's the part that is screwed, not the technical stuff. kim should have more than made of the difference in component. just like tara and johnny did, they completely swept that part under the rug. johnny even acknowledged that was where the dispute was, after spending an hour explaining the technical, and STILL swept it under the rug. for some reason these people are being told by the figure skating body that they dont want the component side of their scoring talked about. cause they know it's shady as hell and wide open to corruption.
Tara and Johnny want to keep their jobs.

The technical scores are an issue. Combining the short and free, the base value difference is less than 1.50. Plus, Sotnikova got a ridiculous amount of positive GOEs, as did Lipnitskaya while the rest of the skaters received substantially less. Mao's base value was 4 pts higher than Sotnikova's yet she scored 2 pts lower on the technical component. She was docked for edge and under-rotation while Sotnikova had both and was docked for neither, instead given a positive GOE.
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Feb 25 2014, 03:35 PM
I don't get it. If you don't care enough about the Winter Olympics to care that the entire medal awarding system is under suspicion, why would you care enough to still be in the Winter Olympics thread telling people what not to talk about?
This is figure skating. Unless this ends up being revealed to be something like the 2002 vote trading scandal, I find nothing shocking about this "controversy".

Some people still think Nancy Kerrigan should've won the gold instead of Oksana. Nothing is truly black and white when it comes to figure skating judging because it is ultimately a subjective.

My beef was seeing people call this an "injustice" which is a slap in the face to people who face true injustice in this world. So I called it out. Period.
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Feb 25 2014, 03:35 PM
I don't get it. If you don't care enough about the Winter Olympics to care that the entire medal awarding system is under suspicion, why would you care enough to still be in the Winter Olympics thread telling people what not to talk about?
x2
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