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Once Upon a Time 3.0
Topic Started: Oct 29 2013, 12:00 PM (1,857,108 Views)
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Oct 29 2013, 12:01 PM
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Oct 29 2013, 11:55 AM
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deepCan we talk about how Regina got closer to Emma in order to see Henry and didn’t take the mirror from Emma?
sher ideaBut Emma is Henry's motherthe good sidespecifically to fuck up everyone else's lives, so she could enjoy watching them "suffer" while she got what she wanted. Emma was a direct, intended target. There was no other motive for it. It was a blatantly sadistic act that had no redeeming motives. It's true that Rumple groomed her for it, but it's also true that you can't make people do things that are against their nature. Rumple chose Regina because he knew she had it in her to be that selfish and cruel if pushed.
Jumping into the conversation to say that I personally disagree with the bolded part. I think EVERY single human being has the potential to be cruel/evil. Some may need to he pushed further than others, but everyone could do it.
I made the comment above. I'll clarify. I don't know how many of the other characters are capable of it. All I do know is that Rumple could've chosen anyone to enact his curse, and he chose Regina as the best prospect. He considered all of his options, and chose her. That suggests she was the one most likely to go to that extreme. Rumple would not have gone out of his way to corrupt someone who would be more difficult to convince. He didn't care who cast the curse, he just wanted it done. If there was someone more capable of the necessary evil than Regina, why didn't he choose them?
The witch who made the prophecy was very specific, Regina must be the one who casts the curse and Emma must be the one who breaks it. It was just easier for Rumple and an added bonus that Regina was related to Cora and was just easier to mold.
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I made the comment above. I'll clarify. I don't know how many of the other characters are capable of it. All I do know is that Rumple could've chosen anyone to enact his curse, and he chose Regina as the best prospect. He considered all of his options, and chose her. That suggests she was the one most likely to go to that extreme. Rumple would not have gone out of his way to corrupt someone who would be more difficult to convince. He didn't care who cast the curse, he just wanted it done. If there was someone more capable of the necessary evil than Regina, why didn't he choose them?

He chose her before she was even born. Does that mean that he knew she'd be capable of it because she was already born with such potential to be "evil"?
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Oct 29 2013, 12:05 PM
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Oct 29 2013, 12:01 PM
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Oct 29 2013, 11:55 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepCan we talk about how Regina got closer to Emma in order to see Henry and didn’t take the mirror from Emma?
sher ideaBut Emma is Henry's motherthe good sidespecifically to fuck up everyone else's lives, so she could enjoy watching them "suffer" while she got what she wanted. Emma was a direct, intended target. There was no other motive for it. It was a blatantly sadistic act that had no redeeming motives. It's true that Rumple groomed her for it, but it's also true that you can't make people do things that are against their nature. Rumple chose Regina because he knew she had it in her to be that selfish and cruel if pushed.
I made the comment above. I'll clarify. I don't know how many of the other characters are capable of it. All I do know is that Rumple could've chosen anyone to enact his curse, and he chose Regina as the best prospect. He considered all of his options, and chose her. That suggests she was the one most likely to go to that extreme. Rumple would not have gone out of his way to corrupt someone who would be more difficult to convince. He didn't care who cast the curse, he just wanted it done. If there was someone more capable of the necessary evil than Regina, why didn't he choose them?
The witch who made the prophecy was very specific, Regina must be the one who casts the curse and Emma must be the one who breaks it. It was just easier for Rumple and an added bonus that Regina was related to Cora and was just easier to mold.
How do you know that he wasn't looking for more to cast his curse? do you think that he sat on his ass 200 years waiting for Regina to be born?
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Oct 29 2013, 12:10 PM
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Oct 29 2013, 12:05 PM
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deepCan we talk about how Regina got closer to Emma in order to see Henry and didn’t take the mirror from Emma?
sher ideaBut Emma is Henry's motherthe good sidespecifically to fuck up everyone else's lives, so she could enjoy watching them "suffer" while she got what she wanted. Emma was a direct, intended target. There was no other motive for it. It was a blatantly sadistic act that had no redeeming motives. It's true that Rumple groomed her for it, but it's also true that you can't make people do things that are against their nature. Rumple chose Regina because he knew she had it in her to be that selfish and cruel if pushed.
The witch who made the prophecy was very specific, Regina must be the one who casts the curse and Emma must be the one who breaks it. It was just easier for Rumple and an added bonus that Regina was related to Cora and was just easier to mold.
How do you know that he wasn't looking for more to cast his curse? do you think that he sat on his ass 200 years waiting for Regina to be born?
Do you know how prophecies work? If he spent 228 years waiting for a girl named Swan to break a curse (the roasted swan dig to Regina hello?), he waited 200 for a Mills to cast the curse.
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Way to not link the other two threads and whatever else is supposed to go in the first post 3.0 starter.....
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Oct 29 2013, 12:09 PM
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I made the comment above. I'll clarify. I don't know how many of the other characters are capable of it. All I do know is that Rumple could've chosen anyone to enact his curse, and he chose Regina as the best prospect. He considered all of his options, and chose her. That suggests she was the one most likely to go to that extreme. Rumple would not have gone out of his way to corrupt someone who would be more difficult to convince. He didn't care who cast the curse, he just wanted it done. If there was someone more capable of the necessary evil than Regina, why didn't he choose them?

He chose her before she was even born. Does that mean that he knew she'd be capable of it because she was already born with such potential to be "evil"?
Her life was planned for her, from the moment she was born, that's a fact. She did have choices, she could have escaped with RH, she could have escaped before she married Leopold, but do you guys really think Rumple wouldn't find her? She was a perfect target, young and naive, easy to manipulate. I hate what she did as the EQ but she had very little choice in her life.
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Oct 29 2013, 12:09 PM
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I made the comment above. I'll clarify. I don't know how many of the other characters are capable of it. All I do know is that Rumple could've chosen anyone to enact his curse, and he chose Regina as the best prospect. He considered all of his options, and chose her. That suggests she was the one most likely to go to that extreme. Rumple would not have gone out of his way to corrupt someone who would be more difficult to convince. He didn't care who cast the curse, he just wanted it done. If there was someone more capable of the necessary evil than Regina, why didn't he choose them?

He chose her before she was even born. Does that mean that he knew she'd be capable of it because she was already born with such potential to be "evil"?
What evil? We all saw the length in which he took to corrupt her. If he pushed anyone else the way he pushed Regina, you would have gotten the same result.
She was Cora's daughter, had great potential to magic. She was confused, lost and traumitized. Rumple took advantage of it.
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Oct 29 2013, 12:10 PM
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Oct 29 2013, 12:02 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepCan we talk about how Regina got closer to Emma in order to see Henry and didn’t take the mirror from Emma?
sher ideaBut Emma is Henry's motherthe good sidespecifically
Nonsense, she wasn't born evil. Nobody is born this or that way. It's a dangerous thinking. She was a kind good girl. We all saw it. What she did later as the EQ is another matter.
This is overly simplistic. People are born with different character traits and propensities. Some people lash out at others when hurt, some internalise it. Some lash out and find they enjoy making others suffer, some lash out and feel shame and guilt. Your claim that everyone would do what Regina did is absurd. Human beings are not solely the product of their upbringings, there are inherent differences.
Ok, that's true. But would she become the EQ if she didn't have an abusive mother, if Rumple didn't chose her to cast his curse and manipulated her every step of the way, if her true love wasn't killed, if she had any sort of support... I mean, we can argue that Snow wouldn't become the EQ but we can't really compare them because their circumstances are completely different.
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:grouphug: :dance: :fun: :overmoon:
3.0 we are waiting for you!!

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Oct 29 2013, 12:12 PM
Way to not link the other two threads and whatever else is supposed to go in the first post 3.0 starter.....
Fail. Can someone change that?
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Oct 29 2013, 12:16 PM
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deepCan we talk about how Regina got closer to Emma in order to see Henry and didn’t take the mirror from Emma?
sher ideaBut Emma is Henry's motherthe good sidespecifically
This is overly simplistic. People are born with different character traits and propensities. Some people lash out at others when hurt, some internalise it. Some lash out and find they enjoy making others suffer, some lash out and feel shame and guilt. Your claim that everyone would do what Regina did is absurd. Human beings are not solely the product of their upbringings, there are inherent differences.
Ok, that's true. But would she become the EQ if she didn't have an abusive mother, if Rumple didn't chose her to cast his curse and manipulated her every step of the way, if her true love wasn't killed, if she had any sort of support... I mean, we can argue that Snow wouldn't become the EQ but we can't really compare them because their circumstances are completely different.
She would have never become the EQ if it weren't for Cora and Rumple.
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Oct 29 2013, 12:12 PM
Way to not link the other two threads and whatever else is supposed to go in the first post 3.0 starter.....
1.0 thread HERE

2.0 thread HERE

Sorry, don't know how to go back and put on first page...
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Oct 29 2013, 12:18 PM
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deepCan we talk about how Regina got closer to Emma in order to see Henry and didn’t take the mirror from Emma?
sher ideaBut Emma is Henry's motherthe good sidespecifically
This is overly simplistic. People are born with different character traits and propensities. Some people lash out at others when hurt, some internalise it. Some lash out and find they enjoy making others suffer, some lash out and feel shame and guilt. Your claim that everyone would do what Regina did is absurd. Human beings are not solely the product of their upbringings, there are inherent differences.
Your claim that she was inherently evil is absurd.
This. She needed to be abused and manipulated to snap and become 'evil', that's the point of her story. She made her own choices but she's not inherently evil.
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Oct 29 2013, 12:18 PM
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deepCan we talk about how Regina got closer to Emma in order to see Henry and didn’t take the mirror from Emma?
sher ideaBut Emma is Henry's motherthe good sidespecifically
Ok, that's true. But would she become the EQ if she didn't have an abusive mother, if Rumple didn't chose her to cast his curse and manipulated her every step of the way, if her true love wasn't killed, if she had any sort of support... I mean, we can argue that Snow wouldn't become the EQ but we can't really compare them because their circumstances are completely different.
She would have never become the EQ if it weren't for Cora and Rumple.
After seeing so much of Regina's backstory i'm surprised that so many people still think she was born evil or with darkness inside of her.
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Oct 29 2013, 12:13 PM
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Oct 29 2013, 12:09 PM
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I made the comment above. I'll clarify. I don't know how many of the other characters are capable of it. All I do know is that Rumple could've chosen anyone to enact his curse, and he chose Regina as the best prospect. He considered all of his options, and chose her. That suggests she was the one most likely to go to that extreme. Rumple would not have gone out of his way to corrupt someone who would be more difficult to convince. He didn't care who cast the curse, he just wanted it done. If there was someone more capable of the necessary evil than Regina, why didn't he choose them?

He chose her before she was even born. Does that mean that he knew she'd be capable of it because she was already born with such potential to be "evil"?
What evil? We all saw the length in which he took to corrupt her. If he pushed anyone else the way he pushed Regina, you would have gotten the same result.
She was Cora's daughter, had great potential to magic. She was confused, lost and traumitized. Rumple took advantage of it.
Snow, Charming, and any other character on that show would have turned evil waaay sooner than when Regina finally cracked imo.

Even the supposedly goodie two shoes Snow and Charming jump the "I SHALL KILL" waay too quickly, and quite frequently as well. (which is what makes their holuier-than-thou attitude even more annoying) :lol: The difference is, as usual, they're never at that point at the same time and one pulls the other back through love and lectures basically.
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"Mary Margaret is still a little worried about Emma, because she knows how tempting Dark Magic can be. Emma says “our son” again and Regina says that she’s here to do dark magic so Emma doesn’t have to. Which is the most romantic thing I’ve ever heard." ^_^

Afterellen recap
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Oct 29 2013, 12:13 PM
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Oct 29 2013, 12:09 PM
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I made the comment above. I'll clarify. I don't know how many of the other characters are capable of it. All I do know is that Rumple could've chosen anyone to enact his curse, and he chose Regina as the best prospect. He considered all of his options, and chose her. That suggests she was the one most likely to go to that extreme. Rumple would not have gone out of his way to corrupt someone who would be more difficult to convince. He didn't care who cast the curse, he just wanted it done. If there was someone more capable of the necessary evil than Regina, why didn't he choose them?

He chose her before she was even born. Does that mean that he knew she'd be capable of it because she was already born with such potential to be "evil"?
Her life was planned for her, from the moment she was born, that's a fact. She did have choices, she could have escaped with RH, she could have escaped before she married Leopold, but do you guys really think Rumple wouldn't find her? She was a perfect target, young and naive, easy to manipulate. I hate what she did as the EQ but she had very little choice in her life.
See that's what I hate about this Fate business controlling the s/l. I can't believe that had Regina chosen to go to RH in that tavern and they ran away from the King - she was still fated to cast that curse somehow. Like Rumple said, she can't run away from her fate no more than Emma can. Now I kind want one of those What If episode where they show how things would've been different and the same.
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Oct 29 2013, 12:13 PM
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Oct 29 2013, 12:09 PM
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I made the comment above. I'll clarify. I don't know how many of the other characters are capable of it. All I do know is that Rumple could've chosen anyone to enact his curse, and he chose Regina as the best prospect. He considered all of his options, and chose her. That suggests she was the one most likely to go to that extreme. Rumple would not have gone out of his way to corrupt someone who would be more difficult to convince. He didn't care who cast the curse, he just wanted it done. If there was someone more capable of the necessary evil than Regina, why didn't he choose them?

He chose her before she was even born. Does that mean that he knew she'd be capable of it because she was already born with such potential to be "evil"?
Her life was planned for her, from the moment she was born, that's a fact. She did have choices, she could have escaped with RH, she could have escaped before she married Leopold, but do you guys really think Rumple wouldn't find her? She was a perfect target, young and naive, easy to manipulate. I hate what she did as the EQ but she had very little choice in her life.
This show is all about destiny and that's becoming a problem. If Henry was destined to be the savior 300 years before he was born, what choice did any of these people have? Everything had to happen exactly as it did because Henry had to be born. Rumple was destined to become the Dark One and let go of Bae, Regina was destined to become the EQ to cast the curse, Snow and Charming were destined to be good and to be Regina's enemies...
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Oct 29 2013, 12:23 PM
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What evil? We all saw the length in which he took to corrupt her. If he pushed anyone else the way he pushed Regina, you would have gotten the same result.
She was Cora's daughter, had great potential to magic. She was confused, lost and traumitized. Rumple took advantage of it.
Snow, Charming, and any other character on that show would have turned evil waaay sooner than when Regina finally cracked imo.

Even the supposedly goodie two shoes Snow and Charming jump the "I SHALL KILL" waay too quickly, and quite frequently as well. (which is what makes their holuier-than-thou attitude even more annoying) :lol: The difference is, as usual, they're never at that point at the same time and one pulls the other back through love and lectures basically.
We all know what Snow did in 1x16 and how she acted. She was empty inside because she lost her true love, the first thing on her mind was revenge. People forget that it's not that potion that made her like that, it was her own choice to kill Regina because she lost Charming.
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Oct 29 2013, 12:25 PM
"Mary Margaret is still a little worried about Emma, because she knows how tempting Dark Magic can be. Emma says “our son” again and Regina says that she’s here to do dark magic so Emma doesn’t have to. Which is the most romantic thing I’ve ever heard." ^_^

Afterellen recap
It's also very sad that Regina thinks she has to do the dirty work so that good guys don't have to.
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Oct 29 2013, 12:28 PM
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"Mary Margaret is still a little worried about Emma, because she knows how tempting Dark Magic can be. Emma says “our son” again and Regina says that she’s here to do dark magic so Emma doesn’t have to. Which is the most romantic thing I’ve ever heard." ^_^

Afterellen recap
It's also very sad that Regina thinks she has to do the dirty work so that good guys don't have to.
Idk if she's doing it as a favor. I think she's doing it because they don't want to do it even to their own detriment. She defended Emma because she knows Emma wanted her to do her magic imo.
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Oct 29 2013, 12:31 PM
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"Mary Margaret is still a little worried about Emma, because she knows how tempting Dark Magic can be. Emma says “our son” again and Regina says that she’s here to do dark magic so Emma doesn’t have to. Which is the most romantic thing I’ve ever heard." ^_^

Afterellen recap
It's also very sad that Regina thinks she has to do the dirty work so that good guys don't have to.
Idk if she's doing it as a favor. I think she's doing it because they don't want to do it even to their own detriment. She defended Emma because she knows Emma wanted her to do her magic imo.
Not as a favor, but in the end she does it and Snow and Emma don't have to. She said "that's what I'm here for". She's accepted that she's the EQ so she'll do things that everyone else refuses to do.
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deepCan we talk about how Regina got closer to Emma in order to see Henry and didn’t take the mirror from Emma?
sher ideaBut Emma is Henry's motherthe good sidespecifically
Your claim that she was inherently evil is absurd.
This. She needed to be abused and manipulated to snap and become 'evil', that's the point of her story. She made her own choices but she's not inherently evil.
I didn't say she was inherently evil. I implied that she was born with the character traits necessary to respond to suffering by becoming someone who enjoys hurting others as a way of dealing with her own pain. Which not everyone would.
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I don't know why people are trying to white wash the fact that Regina has done evil things. She is an amazing character because of her complexity, trying to tone down her flaws is a disservice to her character.
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Oct 29 2013, 12:35 PM
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Oct 29 2013, 12:22 PM
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deepCan we talk about how Regina got closer to Emma in order to see Henry and didn’t take the mirror from Emma?
sher ideaBut Emma is Henry's motherthe good sidespecifically
This. She needed to be abused and manipulated to snap and become 'evil', that's the point of her story. She made her own choices but she's not inherently evil.
I didn't say she was inherently evil. I implied that she was born with the character traits necessary to respond to suffering by becoming someone who enjoys hurting others as a way of dealing with her own pain. Which not everyone would.
She never wanted magic, she never wanted to hurt people, she didn't want to hurt Rocinante ffs, that's also part of her character traits and you can't ignore it.
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Oct 29 2013, 12:41 PM
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deepCan we talk about how Regina got closer to Emma in order to see Henry and didn’t take the mirror from Emma?
sher ideaBut Emma is Henry's motherthe good sidespecifically
I didn't say she was inherently evil. I implied that she was born with the character traits necessary to respond to suffering by becoming someone who enjoys hurting others as a way of dealing with her own pain. Which not everyone would.
She never wanted magic, she never wanted to hurt people, she didn't want to hurt Rocinante ffs, that's also part of her character traits and you can't ignore it.
Just like you can't ignore that she has the capacity to do very vile things.
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Oct 29 2013, 12:39 PM
I don't know why people are trying to white wash the fact that Regina has done evil things. She is an amazing character because of her complexity, trying to tone down her flaws is a disservice to her character.
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Oct 29 2013, 12:42 PM
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deepCan we talk about how Regina got closer to Emma in order to see Henry and didn’t take the mirror from Emma?
sher ideaBut Emma is Henry's motherthe good sidespecifically
She never wanted magic, she never wanted to hurt people, she didn't want to hurt Rocinante ffs, that's also part of her character traits and you can't ignore it.
Just like you can't ignore that she has the capacity to do very vile things.
I never did :eyeroll: .
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Oct 29 2013, 12:39 PM
I don't know why people are trying to white wash the fact that Regina has done evil things. She is an amazing character because of her complexity, trying to tone down her flaws is a disservice to her character.
No one's trying to white-wash any of her evil deeds. Comparing other characters and how they would have done in her situation is not white washing it. And considering the conversation at hand basically started with someone saying "she had it in her" and implying she was inherently prone to be evil while others aren't, of course people are going to remind and talk about just how exactly that happened. It's not about excusing her of any evil by giving it reason, it's about how others would reach evil just as well. If that makes sense.
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Oct 29 2013, 12:39 PM
I don't know why people are trying to white wash the fact that Regina has done evil things. She is an amazing character because of her complexity, trying to tone down her flaws is a disservice to her character.
You're missing the point of this discussion.
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Oct 29 2013, 12:45 PM
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Oct 29 2013, 12:39 PM
I don't know why people are trying to white wash the fact that Regina has done evil things. She is an amazing character because of her complexity, trying to tone down her flaws is a disservice to her character.
No one's trying to white-wash any of her evil deeds. Comparing other characters and how they would have done in her situation is not white washing it. And considering the conversation at hand basically started with someone saying "she had it in her" and implying she was inherently prone to be evil while others aren't, of course people are going to remind and talk about just how exactly that happened. It's not about excusing her of any evil by giving it reason, it's about how others would reach evil just as well. If that makes sense.
But she does have in her, she might not be "inherently evil", I don't think she is that but she hasn't got good coping mechanisms and is prone to do evil things. It's easier for her.

Snow and David don't give in so easily to the dark side *evil cackling* and do struggle more with the repercussions of having to do dirty work than Regina. That's a key difference between them.
Edited by Different Anon, Oct 29 2013, 01:01 PM.
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