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Syrian Civil War Discussion Thread; Share your thoughts!
Topic Started: Aug 30 2013, 10:37 PM (834 Views)
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How do all of you feel about the intervention in Syria? It would seem to be imminent, after all, and the consequences could be far - reaching with cruise missile strikes possibly starting tomorrow.
Edited by bonecanoe86, Nov 18 2013, 09:22 PM.
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diggerjohn111
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Who is this 'We're" you speak of? I agree that the use of chemical weapons in any circumstance is horrid and should be punished, but a "shot across the bow" with T-LAMS isn't going to do anything except make the situation much, much worse. I say provide substantial logistical support and training to the moderate elements of the opposition. At over one-million dollars US a missile; training and supplies (military, humanitarian and technical) for the opposition would be far more effective and cost about the same amount of money without making the situation any worse, and without the global outcry for taking unilateral action. Let the Syrian people get their own justice, the world's duty is to provide the tools for them to do so. The problem with this conflict is that you could have a Baathist victory, which would leave these monsters in place, you could have an opposition victory, which right now would lead to chaos that would make the aftermath of Libya or even Iraq seem tame in comparison, or you could help the opposition get organized, keep Al Qaeda out (and away from the remaining WMDs), and have the pieces together to form a government of unity for Syria's myriad of ethnic and religious groups. For some reason the third option has been ignored by the people so eager to lob a few fairly small missiles into Damascus to send a message that will all but fall upon deaf ears. During the First Gulf War the term "pounding the rubble" for the reason for ending the air strikes was bandied about: continued bombardment wouldn't make any difference, and only risked alienating the very people who were trying to help - sending a few dozen cruise missiles into a Syria two-years into an all-out civil war would likely be just pounding the rubble.
Edited by diggerjohn111, Aug 31 2013, 03:26 AM.
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UnitRico
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Just the use of chemical weapons doesn't seem like a very good reason to waste the West's time and resources to me. If we all really have to intervene in every single conflict in the Middle East, we'll only fuck it up worse (which is pretty hard, because, you know, it's the Middle fucking East). Both Assad and the rebels don't seem to be too keen on the West anyway, so there's not much to gain there either. However, if an intervention could be used to drive a wedge between Syria and their Russian and Chinese friends, then I'm all for it. But for the love of all that's holy, can we please properly think the operation through instead of just marching in, shooting a bunch of people and then breaking our shoulders from patting ourselves on the back?
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diggerjohn111
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UnitRico
Aug 31 2013, 05:08 AM
Just the use of chemical weapons doesn't seem like a very good reason to waste the West's time and resources to me. If we all really have to intervene in every single conflict in the Middle East, we'll only fuck it up worse (which is pretty hard, because, you know, it's the Middle fucking East). Both Assad and the rebels don't seem to be too keen on the West anyway, so there's not much to gain there either. However, if an intervention could be used to drive a wedge between Syria and their Russian and Chinese friends, then I'm all for it. But for the love of all that's holy, can we please properly think the operation through instead of just marching in, shooting a bunch of people and then breaking our shoulders from patting ourselves on the back?
That's what gets me; there is NO plan. and we're not the only ones asking, "Then what?". I do depart with you on the question of chemical weapons being used, that does put the crimes committed by this regime on a whole different plain, even with 100,000 already dead. That does make them accountable for crimes against humanity, that is a boundary that no civilized society should cross. As for the rebels not being "keen on the West", If it stops monsters like Assad and his ilk in the Kremlin and in Tehran I don't care who they like or dislike. I say we help them financially and with tactical support and let the chips fall where they may, it can't be any worse than now, even with the ensuing chaos. We are already at that point anyway.
Edited by diggerjohn111, Aug 31 2013, 08:20 AM.
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UnitRico
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HAIL THE HORSE MASK
Actually, I have an idea: We tell Turkey we might let them join the EU if they can fix this shit for us. We cannot lose.
Of course, we're not actually going to let Turkey join, because, you know, it's still filled with bigots, but still, I'm sure they won't fuck around.

Also, intervening on every crime against humanity that's committed would surely result in a second wave of colonialism and a world war. Heck, this one might, if China and Russia are as insane as they make themselves out to be.
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diggerjohn111
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In all of my dealing with outside governments the Chinese and Russians are not the insane ones of all the major powers.
Edited by diggerjohn111, Aug 31 2013, 12:40 PM.
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bonecanoe86
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It's a no-win scenario. The rebels are arguably worse than the government. It's difficult to know what to do--though I don't think America should do nothing. The only way we can "win" in this situation is to support a side that will get Syria away from being a proxy for Iran, because that's what really matters from an American perspective, and more broadly, a western perspective.
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diggerjohn111
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"The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."
Dante Alighieri, 'Inferno", Divine Comedy.


Edited by diggerjohn111, Sep 1 2013, 08:13 PM.
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diggerjohn111
Aug 31 2013, 08:11 AM
UnitRico
Aug 31 2013, 05:08 AM
Just the use of chemical weapons doesn't seem like a very good reason to waste the West's time and resources to me. If we all really have to intervene in every single conflict in the Middle East, we'll only fuck it up worse (which is pretty hard, because, you know, it's the Middle fucking East). Both Assad and the rebels don't seem to be too keen on the West anyway, so there's not much to gain there either. However, if an intervention could be used to drive a wedge between Syria and their Russian and Chinese friends, then I'm all for it. But for the love of all that's holy, can we please properly think the operation through instead of just marching in, shooting a bunch of people and then breaking our shoulders from patting ourselves on the back?
That's what gets me; there is NO plan. and we're not the only ones asking, "Then what?". I do depart with you on the question of chemical weapons being used, that does put the crimes committed by this regime on a whole different plain, even with 100,000 already dead. That does make them accountable for crimes against humanity, that is a boundary that no civilized society should cross. As for the rebels not being "keen on the West", If it stops monsters like Assad and his ilk in the Kremlin and in Tehran I don't care who they like or dislike. I say we help them financially and with tactical support and let the chips fall where they may, it can't be any worse than now, even with the ensuing chaos. We are already at that point anyway.
We did that in Ahfganistan back during the Cold War and look where we are now, billions of dollars in the hole and good men in the asshole of the world.

I kinda feel for Assad actually. Leave the Syrians alone. It's their mess, let them clean it up.
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Jakk Dion
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Sep 3 2013, 02:56 PM
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We did that in Ahfganistan back during the Cold War and look where we are now, billions of dollars in the hole and good men in the asshole of the world.

I kinda feel for Assad actually. Leave the Syrians alone. It's their mess, let them clean it up.
I'm not very political and I usually don't give my opinion, (cause few agree with me) but I will admit this time, that I agree with above statement
Edited by Jakk Dion, Sep 4 2013, 12:33 AM.
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