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Communism
Topic Started: May 21 2012, 01:31 PM (2,498 Views)
bonecanoe86
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At this point I think a return to Western administration of sub-Saharan Africa wouldn't be such a bad thing.
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UnitRico
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HAIL THE HORSE MASK
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May 24 2012, 07:57 PM
UnitRico
May 24 2012, 07:32 PM
Yes, that seems like the paradox of communism. In order to achieve a governmentless (that's now a word, damnit) state, you need a tyrannical government.

As for Africa, right now, I wouldn't say it's just up to the Africans. I doubt they have the means to make a difference yet, and need to be pushed into the right direction. The help that's going there now indeed just goes into weapons for the warlords, which really isn't helping anyone.
Well if the people there would just overthrow their inept governments it would certainly be good for a start and investment of PRIVATE capital would do for a start, but it's simply just not good business to invest in something that's unstable.
You're talking about that like it'd actually would be successful. So many warlords have been taken down. By whom? The next warlord, who was supported by the people. Governments are overthrown all the time, and every time the country gets thrown deeper into the shit.
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B-29 Bomber
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She is not amused at Fegelein. FEGELEIN!! FEGELEIN!! FEGELEIN!!!
UnitRico
May 24 2012, 08:03 PM
B-29 Bomber
May 24 2012, 07:57 PM
UnitRico
May 24 2012, 07:32 PM
Yes, that seems like the paradox of communism. In order to achieve a governmentless (that's now a word, damnit) state, you need a tyrannical government.

As for Africa, right now, I wouldn't say it's just up to the Africans. I doubt they have the means to make a difference yet, and need to be pushed into the right direction. The help that's going there now indeed just goes into weapons for the warlords, which really isn't helping anyone.
Well if the people there would just overthrow their inept governments it would certainly be good for a start and investment of PRIVATE capital would do for a start, but it's simply just not good business to invest in something that's unstable.
You're talking about that like it'd actually would be successful. So many warlords have been taken down. By whom? The next warlord, who was supported by the people. Governments are overthrown all the time, and every time the country gets thrown deeper into the shit.
You're definitely right! Maybe the whiteman should return to Africa for a while and set things right... I mean decolonization wasn't very well thought out... You Europeans even screwed up on the borders!

Maybe we can put them on a starship and give them a one way ticket to a new planet around another star!
Edited by B-29 Bomber, May 24 2012, 08:26 PM.
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UnitRico
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Yes, the decolonisation went shit in most places, and the West should indeed help out as much as they can (once they fix their own economies, of course). But of course, anyone who'd suggest something like that is called a racist because of course, the Africans are in the perfect position to change it themselves, and the West shouldn't not do anything at all with Africa except invade it from time to time to steal their resources.
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B-29 Bomber
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She is not amused at Fegelein. FEGELEIN!! FEGELEIN!! FEGELEIN!!!
UnitRico
May 25 2012, 03:17 AM
Yes, the decolonisation went shit in most places, and the West should indeed help out as much as they can (once they fix their own economies, of course). But of course, anyone who'd suggest something like that is called a racist because of course, the Africans are in the perfect position to change it themselves, and the West shouldn't not do anything at all with Africa except invade it from time to time to steal their resources.
Hey, the West(i.e. Europe) isn't the only one to blame. There were numerous times where the Africans themselves cooperated with those that were screwing with them. The slave trade is an excellent example of this. When African nations started gaining independence, you know what a lot of them did? Re-instituted slavery!
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UnitRico
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HAIL THE HORSE MASK
B-29 Bomber
May 25 2012, 10:54 AM
UnitRico
May 25 2012, 03:17 AM
Yes, the decolonisation went shit in most places, and the West should indeed help out as much as they can (once they fix their own economies, of course). But of course, anyone who'd suggest something like that is called a racist because of course, the Africans are in the perfect position to change it themselves, and the West shouldn't not do anything at all with Africa except invade it from time to time to steal their resources.
Hey, the West(i.e. Europe) isn't the only one to blame. There were numerous times where the Africans themselves cooperated with those that were screwing with them. The slave trade is an excellent example of this. When African nations started gaining independence, you know what a lot of them did? Re-instituted slavery!
True, the Africans themselves have also made plenty of mistakes, but now I'm wondering if this could've turned out much differently for Sub-Saharan Africa. Then again, had first contact only been made now, they would probably still get a massive cultural and technological shock, although I doubt the West would enslave them all.
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B-29 Bomber
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She is not amused at Fegelein. FEGELEIN!! FEGELEIN!! FEGELEIN!!!
UnitRico
May 25 2012, 01:12 PM
B-29 Bomber
May 25 2012, 10:54 AM
UnitRico
May 25 2012, 03:17 AM
Yes, the decolonisation went shit in most places, and the West should indeed help out as much as they can (once they fix their own economies, of course). But of course, anyone who'd suggest something like that is called a racist because of course, the Africans are in the perfect position to change it themselves, and the West shouldn't not do anything at all with Africa except invade it from time to time to steal their resources.
Hey, the West(i.e. Europe) isn't the only one to blame. There were numerous times where the Africans themselves cooperated with those that were screwing with them. The slave trade is an excellent example of this. When African nations started gaining independence, you know what a lot of them did? Re-instituted slavery!
True, the Africans themselves have also made plenty of mistakes, but now I'm wondering if this could've turned out much differently for Sub-Saharan Africa. Then again, had first contact only been made now, they would probably still get a massive cultural and technological shock, although I doubt the West would enslave them all.
I doubt we would enslave any of them!
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UnitRico
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Correct, I worded that in a...strange way indeed.

Might I also add that this thread started as a debate on communism (and thus vs capitalism) and ended up discussing something else? On the JVS forums, this usually goes the other way around.
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Nwahs
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Bernanke is my Bae
So on Stalin's forum, it goes off-topic first before focusing on the topic?
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UnitRico
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LordNwahs6
May 26 2012, 08:42 AM
So on Stalin's forum, it goes off-topic first before focusing on the topic?
Not really, but almost any discussion turns into a communism vs capitalism debate.
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