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Communism
Topic Started: May 21 2012, 01:31 PM (2,501 Views)
UnitRico
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HAIL THE HORSE MASK
B-29 Bomber
May 21 2012, 08:20 PM
UnitRico
May 21 2012, 05:39 PM
I will admit I don't know too much about stuff like this, so everything I type will be from the relatively small perspective I have. Anyway:

The ideal itself is great, but it has flaws that go against human nature itself, and therefore will not succeed, and people shouldn't try and make it work, because it will go wrong. Ideals and systems like communism will only work if 100% of the people stand behind it and make it work, which, in practise, will never happen. The impression I get from it is that once a single person stops supporting the system, it will collapse.
Can someone explain why a failed idea is great? That makes exactly zero sense.

The thing I hate the most is when the best thing someone can say is that Communism works in theory and that's absolute bullshit. If something only works in the theoretical world you've created in your mind then you've refused to allow for one or more variables, such as human nature. The very basis of Communism is that there are no classes, no government. But it ignores the fact that humans are very much power hungry. If there is a power vacuum, as true Communism would create by eliminating government, someone, like Stalin in the Soviet Union, would try to fill that vacuum by placing themselves in charge and thus destroying true Communism before it's created.

China is the natural outcome of any attempt of Communism. The Government takes the place of those that Communists rail against: Capitalists and it now even worse because there's absolutely no hope for recourse under law because the man carrying the whip is carrying it at the behest of those which that recourse would normally come from.

Communism is the ultimate con job for those who want power because it tricks the working class into thinking that they're being saved from tyrants but in reality they're only trading one overseer for another.
I think I read a news article about a small Spanish town which had elected a very young mayor that implemented a communistic system that worked very well for the town...then again, it was a small town where everyone was incredibly motivated.

Again, the idea itself (on quite a shallow level, I admit) is very good. You have no classes, no money and no state in which everyone works for each other and everyone is content. That's the idea.

Now, in practise, while it would be a good situation to be in, it won't work, not when classes, money and states have been prevalent for centuries. Like you said, there will always be power hungry people that seize power and the state ends up falling into a tyranny, which is why I said it would only work if 100% of the people are behind the idea. In theory, this is perfectly possible. And especially when the idea hadn't been implemented yet (Or never actually has in the first place, if I understand it correctly. And no, China now isn't communist), you have no practise to test out your theory. Of course, if the practise has taught us one thing it's that any attempt at communism isn't going to work out. However, as the idea itself still is very good, people cling to it and hope that one day it will succeed.
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Nwahs
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Bernanke is my Bae
I have been to China quite a few times already, and in no way other than the state symbols and the name of the ruling party does it appear Communist. At all. It's really a mix of many different systems, peppered with corruption and a general lack of politicisation among the masses.

Anyway, Communism sounds good... as long as it isn't Communism.
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thecocoabeans1
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george orwell and ayn rand was both a couple of communist anarchist socialist anti-capitalist SFSR CCCP USSR ESSR KGB PRC DPRK CPUSA NVA Vietcong commies am i right?
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Nwahs
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Bernanke is my Bae
thecocoabeans1
May 22 2012, 10:17 AM
george orwell and ayn rand was both a couple of communist anarchist socialist anti-capitalist SFSR CCCP USSR ESSR KGB PRC DPRK CPUSA NVA Vietcong commies am i right?
I don't know, but I sure as heck know that you are a acronymist.
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B-29 Bomber
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She is not amused at Fegelein. FEGELEIN!! FEGELEIN!! FEGELEIN!!!
UnitRico
May 22 2012, 01:34 AM
B-29 Bomber
May 21 2012, 08:20 PM
UnitRico
May 21 2012, 05:39 PM
I will admit I don't know too much about stuff like this, so everything I type will be from the relatively small perspective I have. Anyway:

The ideal itself is great, but it has flaws that go against human nature itself, and therefore will not succeed, and people shouldn't try and make it work, because it will go wrong. Ideals and systems like communism will only work if 100% of the people stand behind it and make it work, which, in practise, will never happen. The impression I get from it is that once a single person stops supporting the system, it will collapse.
Can someone explain why a failed idea is great? That makes exactly zero sense.

The thing I hate the most is when the best thing someone can say is that Communism works in theory and that's absolute bullshit. If something only works in the theoretical world you've created in your mind then you've refused to allow for one or more variables, such as human nature. The very basis of Communism is that there are no classes, no government. But it ignores the fact that humans are very much power hungry. If there is a power vacuum, as true Communism would create by eliminating government, someone, like Stalin in the Soviet Union, would try to fill that vacuum by placing themselves in charge and thus destroying true Communism before it's created.

China is the natural outcome of any attempt of Communism. The Government takes the place of those that Communists rail against: Capitalists and it now even worse because there's absolutely no hope for recourse under law because the man carrying the whip is carrying it at the behest of those which that recourse would normally come from.

Communism is the ultimate con job for those who want power because it tricks the working class into thinking that they're being saved from tyrants but in reality they're only trading one overseer for another.
I think I read a news article about a small Spanish town which had elected a very young mayor that implemented a communistic system that worked very well for the town...then again, it was a small town where everyone was incredibly motivated.

Again, the idea itself (on quite a shallow level, I admit) is very good. You have no classes, no money and no state in which everyone works for each other and everyone is content. That's the idea.

Now, in practise, while it would be a good situation to be in, it won't work, not when classes, money and states have been prevalent for centuries. Like you said, there will always be power hungry people that seize power and the state ends up falling into a tyranny, which is why I said it would only work if 100% of the people are behind the idea. In theory, this is perfectly possible. And especially when the idea hadn't been implemented yet (Or never actually has in the first place, if I understand it correctly. And no, China now isn't communist), you have no practise to test out your theory. Of course, if the practise has taught us one thing it's that any attempt at communism isn't going to work out. However, as the idea itself still is very good, people cling to it and hope that one day it will succeed.
"In theory, this is perfectly possible."

In theory, it's perfectly possible for me to jump out of my second story window, if I ignore gravity. A theory is only good if it can be applied to reality and by your own admission Communism can't be. Therefore it is a bad idea. Anyone who clings to the hope of Communism is clinging to false hope and therefore they are fools. Plain and simple. Communism is a scam.

"China is the natural outcome of any attempt of Communism."
Edited by B-29 Bomber, May 22 2012, 11:00 AM.
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UnitRico
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HAIL THE HORSE MASK
B-29 Bomber
May 22 2012, 10:58 AM
UnitRico
May 22 2012, 01:34 AM
B-29 Bomber
May 21 2012, 08:20 PM
UnitRico
May 21 2012, 05:39 PM
I will admit I don't know too much about stuff like this, so everything I type will be from the relatively small perspective I have. Anyway:

The ideal itself is great, but it has flaws that go against human nature itself, and therefore will not succeed, and people shouldn't try and make it work, because it will go wrong. Ideals and systems like communism will only work if 100% of the people stand behind it and make it work, which, in practise, will never happen. The impression I get from it is that once a single person stops supporting the system, it will collapse.
Can someone explain why a failed idea is great? That makes exactly zero sense.

The thing I hate the most is when the best thing someone can say is that Communism works in theory and that's absolute bullshit. If something only works in the theoretical world you've created in your mind then you've refused to allow for one or more variables, such as human nature. The very basis of Communism is that there are no classes, no government. But it ignores the fact that humans are very much power hungry. If there is a power vacuum, as true Communism would create by eliminating government, someone, like Stalin in the Soviet Union, would try to fill that vacuum by placing themselves in charge and thus destroying true Communism before it's created.

China is the natural outcome of any attempt of Communism. The Government takes the place of those that Communists rail against: Capitalists and it now even worse because there's absolutely no hope for recourse under law because the man carrying the whip is carrying it at the behest of those which that recourse would normally come from.

Communism is the ultimate con job for those who want power because it tricks the working class into thinking that they're being saved from tyrants but in reality they're only trading one overseer for another.
I think I read a news article about a small Spanish town which had elected a very young mayor that implemented a communistic system that worked very well for the town...then again, it was a small town where everyone was incredibly motivated.

Again, the idea itself (on quite a shallow level, I admit) is very good. You have no classes, no money and no state in which everyone works for each other and everyone is content. That's the idea.

Now, in practise, while it would be a good situation to be in, it won't work, not when classes, money and states have been prevalent for centuries. Like you said, there will always be power hungry people that seize power and the state ends up falling into a tyranny, which is why I said it would only work if 100% of the people are behind the idea. In theory, this is perfectly possible. And especially when the idea hadn't been implemented yet (Or never actually has in the first place, if I understand it correctly. And no, China now isn't communist), you have no practise to test out your theory. Of course, if the practise has taught us one thing it's that any attempt at communism isn't going to work out. However, as the idea itself still is very good, people cling to it and hope that one day it will succeed.
"In theory, this is perfectly possible."

In theory, it's perfectly possible for me to jump out of my second story window, if I ignore gravity. A theory is only good if it can be applied to reality and by your own admission Communism can't be. Therefore it is a bad idea. Anyone who clings to the hope of Communism is clinging to false hope and therefore they are fools. Plain and simple. Communism is a scam.

"China is the natural outcome of any attempt of Communism."
In practise, it's still perfectly possible to jump out of your window. What will happen after that is irrelevant to the practicality of being able to jump out of the window, which is my point entirely. The idea of communism in and of itself isn't bad. However, the way to it, and the events that are caused by it, are.

Just think about oil, or all fossil fuels combined. When their uses were first discovered and explored, the ideas sounded amazing and the possibilities endless. Now, however, we know that the resources are limited, and the usage highly polluting and damaging, and if we don't find a solution soon, we're fucked within the century. Does that make the idea of using these resources a bad idea overall? Absolutely not. Yes, in the long term, it's bound to fail horribly, even though in the short term it looked like the ultimate long term solution, and no one thought about the possible consequences. And how could they? No one can predict the future. On paper, the idea is still great, even though soon it will be near impossible to achieve, and the next best (and in this example's case simply better, and in communism's case, the idea that is actually achievable) idea has to be chosen.

Or let's look at something closer; capitalism. Is that the all-inspiring and good bringing idea that will bring all of humanity prosperity? Again, it looks great on paper: everyone gets their chance to achieve success in their own individual way. Isn't that great? Well, not if you apply it to reality, where the same hunger for power that makes communism unachievable makes it so that a large amount of people in capitalism achieve their earned success over the backs of the unfortunate, who are doomed to live lives of poverty and unhappiness. While the idea is certainly achievable in reality, it's is still highly flawed. Does that make it a failing system? A bad idea?

Communism isn't a bad idea. Nor is capitalism, or the use of fossil fuels. If anything is flawed, it's humanity.

I have to agree on your second to last point, though. Communism has proven to have failed. The only way how it can possibly be achieved is when 100% of the people are behind it, which in turn can only be achieved through indoctrination and tyranny, the very things that communism wants to get rid of. The way to communism has to be ridden on the cart of tyranny, and is fuelled by the hunger for power of man. However, before the destination is reached, the cart will go down the road of terror and paranoia, and will inevitably crash.

...fuck, that was way too philosophical, poetic and metaphorical for my doing. EDIT: AND I forgot to mention people should indeed give up clinging on to the idea of communism. It just isn't going to work. So, yeah, you're right there.
Edited by UnitRico, May 22 2012, 12:11 PM.
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Jerman
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Self Proclaimed Badass lord of badassry
At least this more intelligent then shoot 300 rounds into paper
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Sims2User
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Communism is fail. Herp Derp.
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B-29 Bomber
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She is not amused at Fegelein. FEGELEIN!! FEGELEIN!! FEGELEIN!!!
Jerman
May 22 2012, 12:27 PM
At least this more intelligent then shoot 300 rounds into paper
You're one to talk about stupid threads, Mr. Jerman. How many stupid, pointless threads have you made since joining?



Also to Mr. Nwahs6, that was supposed to be jump out of that window and fly. My bad.
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Jerman
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B-29 bomber user talk thread
Best video ever
I bet you cant watch the whole video
Best sims video ever
and
B-29 Bomber you have to watch this

Five
Edited by Jerman, May 22 2012, 08:24 PM.
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