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Communism
Topic Started: May 21 2012, 01:31 PM (2,490 Views)
UnitRico
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HAIL THE HORSE MASK
B-29 Bomber
Jan 16 2014, 08:24 AM
Squaretable22
Jan 15 2014, 06:26 PM
Yeah, but we could be in a far crapper state than without them.

Europe has high tax rates, noone has private medical care, 'part from the super-rich. It relies on the state. If you lose your job, you don't risk becoming homeless, you are given a home (albeit a slightly run down one) as long as your looking for employment. I'm ashamed that my country is of few in europe that doesn't offer its citizens free university placing, but most of europe does.

Socialism is about making everyone equal, for the better interests of the country as a whole. Europe has a far higher quality of life than the United States, hell Cuba has a life expectancy 3-5 years higher than the US because UHC!
Quote:
 
Yeah, but we could be in a far crapper state than without them.


That argument is invalid, because you can neither prove nor disprove such a claim.

People on this forum have made similar points. I have countered them with the simple fact that the US is not Europe. What works for a European country most definitely won't work for another.
Which is quite a shitty argument in and of itself, considering the US (or the West in general) like to do nothing less than push countries across the world and tell them how to govern themselves, both diplomatically and forcefully.
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Square
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Singapore and Japan have socialist systems?

And the United States in itself could be counted a utopian project in itself, with its high emphasis on business and Democratic representation, look where it is now, highly powerful, but in some ways the laughing stock of the industrialized Western Countries, with poverty rates high!

It may be we enjoy regulations against us or high tax rates, but i think its because we know the end result will be the best for us. The west and east coast of the US is what votes most for the liberal reforms, the modern economically powerful parts of the country, they unfortunately have to deal with the backwardness elsewhere.
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Square
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I agree with Rico, I know Europe with the assistance of Canada should invade america! Liberate their tortured brothers from the backwards poverty they are in, tsk tsk.
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B-29 Bomber
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She is not amused at Fegelein. FEGELEIN!! FEGELEIN!! FEGELEIN!!!
UnitRico
Jan 16 2014, 08:35 AM
B-29 Bomber
Jan 16 2014, 08:24 AM
Squaretable22
Jan 15 2014, 06:26 PM
Yeah, but we could be in a far crapper state than without them.

Europe has high tax rates, noone has private medical care, 'part from the super-rich. It relies on the state. If you lose your job, you don't risk becoming homeless, you are given a home (albeit a slightly run down one) as long as your looking for employment. I'm ashamed that my country is of few in europe that doesn't offer its citizens free university placing, but most of europe does.

Socialism is about making everyone equal, for the better interests of the country as a whole. Europe has a far higher quality of life than the United States, hell Cuba has a life expectancy 3-5 years higher than the US because UHC!
Quote:
 
Yeah, but we could be in a far crapper state than without them.


That argument is invalid, because you can neither prove nor disprove such a claim.

People on this forum have made similar points. I have countered them with the simple fact that the US is not Europe. What works for a European country most definitely won't work for another.
Which is quite a shitty argument in and of itself, considering the US (or the West in general) like to do nothing less than push countries across the world and tell them how to govern themselves, both diplomatically and forcefully.
This makes little sense. While it is a known and sad fact that countries like to force others to do as they will, that doesn't make it right or justified to continue to do so. Someone has to step up stop doing it.

Also Squaretable, the US is not a Utopian Experiment. The goals of the Founding fathers were surprisingly pragmatic compared to the typical Utopian experiments. Their primary goal was the separation of their country from the British Imperial System. Their governing system was based off of centuries of republican and democratic thought, going back to ancient Greece and Rome. The American legal and political system was based off of the British model-- just minus the Monarchy.

Whereas most Utopian experiments throw precedent out the window, like the Soviet Union.
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Square
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Communism in the early 1900s was the same as democracy in the late 1700s, based off classical ideas, but without precedent. In that time, my country's parliament was still weaker than today, and could be overridden by the king. It was nowhere near as open as Americas. America could have been somewhat a monarchy, had Washington not resigned after 8 years. In fact, there are many similarities between the principles Revolutionary france was founded upon (your oldest ally) and the United states, it just took 50 more years until it would come under meltdown. However its constitution and public opinion is so hard to change, that it can't adapt to the Moden world, meaning that a small state on the east coast is one of the most powerful, that rights aren't equal, harmful weapons that can kill tens of people within a matter of minutes can be acquired by almost anyone and trade is free, if its within the United States.

This means america suffers from corruption. Their companies don't think they have to abide international law, and the US shields them, but foreign companies are driven away, and face tariffs!
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UnitRico
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HAIL THE HORSE MASK
B-29 Bomber
Jan 17 2014, 09:45 AM
UnitRico
Jan 16 2014, 08:35 AM
B-29 Bomber
Jan 16 2014, 08:24 AM
Squaretable22
Jan 15 2014, 06:26 PM
Yeah, but we could be in a far crapper state than without them.

Europe has high tax rates, noone has private medical care, 'part from the super-rich. It relies on the state. If you lose your job, you don't risk becoming homeless, you are given a home (albeit a slightly run down one) as long as your looking for employment. I'm ashamed that my country is of few in europe that doesn't offer its citizens free university placing, but most of europe does.

Socialism is about making everyone equal, for the better interests of the country as a whole. Europe has a far higher quality of life than the United States, hell Cuba has a life expectancy 3-5 years higher than the US because UHC!
Quote:
 
Yeah, but we could be in a far crapper state than without them.


That argument is invalid, because you can neither prove nor disprove such a claim.

People on this forum have made similar points. I have countered them with the simple fact that the US is not Europe. What works for a European country most definitely won't work for another.
Which is quite a shitty argument in and of itself, considering the US (or the West in general) like to do nothing less than push countries across the world and tell them how to govern themselves, both diplomatically and forcefully.
This makes little sense. While it is a known and sad fact that countries like to force others to do as they will, that doesn't make it right or justified to continue to do so. Someone has to step up stop doing it.
It made sense when I wrote it. It doesn't change that your fact doesn't actually change anything, though. Sure, the US and Europe aren't the same. Fuck, two countries aren't the same. The only thing in which your proposition could possibly be "most definitely" true is mathematics, but that's about it.
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Square
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Controversial
Was that aimed at me or B29, if your talking about Europa invading america, I was joking.

Read it again, it was aimed at B29. On the whole I like Americans, I just dislike America. (Like I hate YouTube but I like the youtubers.)

For some reason america thinks it has some divine right to do what they wish. Taking what they want. We kicked that habit long ago, IMO, Americas still just about keeping at it.
Edited by Square, Jan 17 2014, 06:12 PM.
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Jakk Dion
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The Video Game Designer, Writer and Musical talent from the House of Sim
America and England. The Anglo-Saxon world powers. United States and United Kingdom. These goverment powers are now failing so bad, they will not be able to save themselves due to greed and so many other things. They will die out and soon the leaders of the U.S. and U.K. will sign over all authority, or whatever its called, to the U.N. and they will be the new "rulers" of the world. Its all have been starting for a while now, how many years before it happens? I don't know, probably 4 or so.... well, I'm done with my rant, until I find more interesting stuff.
Oh and I said it before and I'll say it again. Communism is a good idea in itself only if there wasn't such a thing as greedy asshole humans. Which means it can't work in these modern days.
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Square
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My country is a hell of a lot better than the us for power-mongering. If I ever become ruler of my country I'd ban intervention abroad out of our country's pocket, and focus on building the country domestically.
That would include building jobs, nationalisation of industries, transport connections and construction of new housing .

Its sad to say we are America's European puppet state, before greater EU integration we had the system most like America's
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UnitRico
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HAIL THE HORSE MASK
Jakk Dion
Jan 18 2014, 04:54 AM
Oh and I said it before and I'll say it again. Communism is a good idea in itself only if there wasn't such a thing as greedy asshole humans. Which means it can't work in these modern days.
It would never work. It's based purely off of optimism and fantasy, and can only devolve into chaos and tyranny.
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