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| Free will in Heaven? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 11 2008, 05:36 PM (244 Views) | |
| Soulless | Mar 11 2008, 05:36 PM Post #1 |
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It seems that free will is important to Christians. When you reach Heaven, where you will spend eternity worshipping God, do you lose your free will? If God considers free will so important that he allows so much evil to exist, why would you have to spend eternity worshipping God? If you say that once you are in the presence of God you wouldn't want to do anything else, is that really free will if it isn't possible to do anything else? I'd be interested in hearing other peoples opinions, not just Christians. I'm intrigued with the question of free will. |
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| Rhonda | Mar 24 2008, 04:36 AM Post #2 |
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resident bible thumper
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I am not an unattractive woman. Not Cindy Crawford or Giselle Bunchen, by any stretch, but not the Wicked Witch of the West, either. I've been propositioned by young men half my age, but I've not wanted to take them up on their offer. I haven't wanted to because my husband is the sexiest, most handsome man on the face of this planet to me. I could stray, but I choose not too because, to me, there is nothing that could ever be worth straying for. My husband cherishes me, loves me through my snits, and has stood by me when others would have given up and left. He's picked up the pieces of my heart more times than I care to count, only to put them back together again. I spend many a day quite impatiently waiting for him to get home and for the kids' bedtime because I yearn for him. In thanks for all he is to me, I reserve myself for him. I take care of our home, raise our children, and am here for him to vent his frustrations. I could be like many women and step all over him, take his love for me for granted, or disrespect him, and myself, by flirting and flaunting, but because of all he is to me, I choose to be faithful and devoted. I've learned alot about the nature of God through my husband. If I am so enamored and devoted to a man on this earth, how much more enamored and devoted to God will I be when I stand in His glory? My husband is but a mere man - my man, mind you, but just a man - and he pulls from me such longing, devotion, and love that it can be frightening at times. And he screws up! He does things that irritate the living daylights out of me. He gets in bad moods sometimes, and has a tendency to be way too uptight about things. This imperfect man is capable of evincing such abject devotion. How much more will the perfect, holy, and glorious God? It isn't that it's impossible to do anything else. It's why would you want to? If I've got a Jaguar in the garage, why would I want to drive a Yugo? It's just silly to think you'd prefer the Yugo over the Jag. If you were in the presence of absolute power, absolute mercy, and absolute love, why would you want to do anything else but worship? Edited by Rhonda, Mar 24 2008, 04:37 AM.
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| Soulless | Mar 24 2008, 04:50 AM Post #3 |
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I see your point, but your answer has made me think of another question. Are you free to still love your husband once you reach heaven? Could you love your husband while in the presence of God? If you can't love your husband, is that free will? Would you want to lose your love for your husband in exchange for loving God? |
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| Rhonda | Mar 24 2008, 02:56 PM Post #4 |
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resident bible thumper
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I will still love my husband in heaven, and that love will be multiplied exponentially and purified from any selfishness. God IS love. Read the 10 commandments and consider this: if all men followed these commandments, what would we have? We would have the 2 commandments that Jesus gave - to love God and to love our neighbor as ourselves. The purpose of the law was to show man 2 things: how absolutely holy God is compared to men and how to love all men. God has been teaching me so very much about love. He's teaching me how to love as He loves. I spent the better part of the last year getting to know God - who He is, how He operates, and what He truly desires for His creation. God's love is so paradoxical in nature that it's staggering. The Word says that He is a jealous God. On the surface, this seems completely in opposition to one that is holy, but if you think about it, there are two kinds of jealousy - selfish and selfless. I used to have a very selfish jealousy for my husband. He's mine and any woman that even looked at him sideways made me seethe. There is a young lady at church that didn't think before she acted. She had a very bad habit of walking up and draping herself over any man in her proximity. I had to repent many times of wanting to rip every hair from her head because she touched what was mine. My jealousy doesn't work that way anymore. My jealousy for him now is because I know that no other woman could ever love him the way that I do. No woman could adore him the way that I do. No woman could please him the way that I do because I know him better than he knows himself. In short, I am what's best for him. Sounds a bit arrogant maybe, but it's the truth. My jealousy is such that I want what is best for him, what will make him happy, not me. The Word says that God is wrathful. Again, sounds like it's in opposition to a God of love, but there are also two kinds of wrath - selfish and selfless. A selfish wrath is angry because you did something I didn't like. A selfless wrath is angry because you did something that will hurt yourself or those that I love. I've often said that you can do pretty much anything you want to do to me, but when you mess with my children or my husband, you better give your soul to God because the rest of you is mine. God is teaching me not to be offended by much of anything anymore, and it's actually working. I used to get offended quite a bit. I was hot headed, opinionated, and had a bad habit of saying just what was on mind with no regard for how it sounded or who it upset. He's teaching me to be more careful, but He's also purifying my mind and heart. The Word says that what comes out of our mouths is the overflow of the heart. I want my heart to be represented to world by my speech. I want that representation to be of a heart that is filled with love for ALL men. 1 John 4:17 says that love has been purified in us in that we can stand with boldness on the day of judgment. This is my "life verse." I want my love for those around me to be so pure that NOTHING will affect it. I want to love with my whole being every single person on this planet no matter who they are or what they've done because that is the way God loves. I have told you before that I have a very real affection for you, Geoff, and I truly do. I was reading some of the questions you posted last night. The last one I read you said that you just wanted answers from Christianity, but there were none to be found. I cried. I sat here and cried because I could have told you there were no answers in religion, but there are answers in God. You quoted the verse where Jesus said that if you ask, you will be given answers. You said He hadn't given you any. I ask again, what do you think I am? Have I not given you answers? The fact that you disagree with me or don't like my answers doesn't mean I haven't given them. God often uses men. It's amazing to me that He would trust us to do it, but such is His love and faith in us. I've digressed a bit. To sum up my answer, of course I will love my husband in the presence of God. I will love all men in the presence of God because that is what He's called us to do. Love as He loves. That means my love will be pure and without any selfishness. I'm so very excited about this! It is my deepest heart's desire that on the day I stand before Him He will say to me, "Well done, good and faithful servant." I'm a song writer, and I've written a few songs for Him. One of them says, to paraphrase, I am mired in between the mountain of His glory and the valley of humility. I try to reach him there, but sometimes I'm just not strong enough. So I'm asking Him to help me reach it. And He does. Everytime I get stuck, if I remember to turn to Him for help, He never fails to give me the strength or the love I need to get through it in a way that is above anything I could have accomplished on my own. I know who I am. I know my limits, and that's why I turn to Him to help me go the distance that I know I can't get to on my own. I don't know if it means much to you, but I pray for you, Geoff. I pray for peace and understanding. I pray for blessings both natural and spiritual. And I tell you, it's been much easier to pray for you since I know your real first name....*snicker* God bless you and keep you, my friend. -Rhonda |
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| Soulless | Mar 24 2008, 07:14 PM Post #5 |
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Rhonda, reading your posts is always a roller coaster of emotions. Thank you. I really wish I could answer right now but I'm just about to leave for work. I'll reply properly in about 9 or 10 hours. I hope you have a fantastic day.
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| Soulless | Mar 28 2008, 11:32 PM Post #6 |
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Rhonda, I'm sorry that my questions caused you to be upset. Upsetting anyone wasn't my intention. I had had a bad day and was simply voicing my frustration I guess. Again, sorry. You said that God has provided the answers through our conversations. I can see your point of view, but to me an answer isn't simply giving a different view, it's providing information that gives me that feeling of understanding, that has that little voice in my head going, "Ahh, yes. I see now." While your replies have been wonderful and show what an honest, caring person you are, I still haven't heard that voice. To be honest I doubt anything will make sense to me until I can resolve the conflict I see between what I'm told that God is and what I see God as. It always comes back to trying to understand a God that is willing to allow us to harm ourselves. I know the standard response to that is 'free will' but it doesn't answer the question really. No matter what example anyone comes up with I would never allow my child to do something I KNOW is going to cause him harm. I would use every resource available to me to show him how it would harm him. If that failed I wouldn't turn my back on him while he suffered. I would accept him and love him while trying to help him understand why he had been hurt. I would try and help him overcome the pain and help him better himself and his life by learning from his error. If I simply abandoned him to his suffering I couldn't honestly claim to love him. Where is the value of pain and suffering if there is no chance to learn from it. Eternal punishment teaches nothing, it achieves nothing. It never ends or allows the sufferer to learn, to become a better person. It is simply torture for the sake of pain and suffering. I see no love in that. I know I've gotten off the subject. I'm sorry but you'll probably have to get used to that. I don't plan anything I say. It's all just coming out of my head and straight to the keyboard so I just go where my thoughts lead me. Sorry.
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| Rhonda | Mar 30 2008, 09:09 PM Post #7 |
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resident bible thumper
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I've been trying so hard to convince you of God's love for you that I've been remiss in stating the whole nature of God. That is my fault, and I apologize. I'm going to start a new thread in Christianity about the nature of God. Hope to see you there....
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8:58 AM Jul 11