The need for "proof"

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The need for "proof"
Tweet Topic Started: Nov 30 2010, 01:08 AM (344 Views)
Robert	Nov 30 2010, 01:08 AM Post #1
Posts: 7,393 Group: Members Member #3 Joined: Apr 3, 2010 What version of GM do you use? 6 Pro	Right now on another forum I am in a debate/"argument" with a few non-religious people about religion and the proof required. We have been discussing whether or not you should try to investigate many churches in order to really know which true is true/right for you. We have argued whether or not your parents and leaders should be trusted, and if you should rely on their teachings And other such things. So tell me, do i need to prove scientifically that i know my church is true?
	I'm going to be serving a two year Mission for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in Texas in both English and American Sign Language


DT-170x	Nov 30 2010, 01:26 AM Post #2
Posts: 1,766 Group: Members Member #7 Joined: Apr 3, 2010	Robert Nov 30 2010, 01:08 AM Right now on another forum I am in a debate/"argument" with a few non-religious people about religion and the proof required. We have been discussing whether or not you should try to investigate many churches in order to really know which true is true/right for you. We have argued whether or not your parents and leaders should be trusted, and if you should rely on their teachings And other such things. So tell me, do i need to prove scientifically that i know my church is true? No. Science Can't solve anything, there is enough unexplainable think like (miracles,Luck,Karma,etc) that can't be explained or put into theory. Like How can Morality be applied into mathematics. And One question how you can detect God(s)[If you a polytheist] with science. HOW??? -edited by Nijg so the correct word is in this sentence- Morals Talk Below. To an extreme atheist society They can change the moral at will. (because of no moral baseline.) To an extreme Religion society There morals become corrupted by power. (can be the same as an extreme atheist society) To an Religion or a Moralist(Can include atheists) Society there is a "Base" set of rules,code,etc. That can't be change. And Religion and non religion is basically opinion You can choose which religion to partake on. I wish all the bashing go away. Too much ego going along. Edited by Nijg, Nov 30 2010, 03:29 AM.



Nijg	Nov 30 2010, 03:30 AM Post #3
rude crude piece of food Posts: 7,332 Group: Members Member #2 Joined: Apr 3, 2010 What version of GM do you use? 6 Pro	Kind of odd where I got this quote from, as it was an atheist-made production, but this really proves the lack of need for proof in some religious situations: A guy asks a lady "Prove to me that God loves you." The lady says, "Do you love your parents?" The guy says, "Yes" The lady says, "Then prove it."
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Mars	Nov 30 2010, 03:31 AM Post #4
Posts: 1,113 Group: Members Member #39 Joined: Oct 27, 2010	DT-170x Nov 30 2010, 01:26 AM Science Can't solve anything, there is enough unexplainable think like (miracles,Luck,Karma,etc) that can't be explained or put into theory. Like How can Morality be applied into mathematics. And One question how you can detect God(s)[If you a polygamist] with science. HOW??? Morals Talk Below. To an extreme atheist society They can change the moral at will. (because of no moral baseline.) To an extreme Religion society There morals become corrupted by power. (can be the same as an extreme atheist society) To an Religion or a Moralist(Can include atheists) Society there is a "Base" set of rules,code,etc. That can't be change. And Religion and non religion is basically opinion You can choose which religion to partake on. I wish all the bashing go away. Too much ego going along. All this is completely baseless... a typical biased an uneducated view in which the assumed moral company(religion) is acting out and lashing(immoral) against other communities.... Science can't explain a miracle since miracles don't exist, they are a label placed on other events. Safe child birth can be explained in science and yet religious people may label it a miracle (rather then accept that the doctor did a very good job) Morality may not be explained in math yet it is perfectly explainable in psychology, a much more relevant science. Gods is not polygamy its polytheism, Such as myself... thanks for messing that one up... Atheist Society Base their morals on studies and psychology and their is rarely any definite changes, Typically limited to who should and should not be held accountable for their actions. Religions change their rules all the time, look into the history of the church... learn something... For someone who wishes for the bashing to go away you sure started off with a bang. As to the topic, A person should never take what they are handed ever so long as they value their own existence. The search for truth is what makes it true. I could care less for what your believes are so long as you came to the conclusion by your own hand. Edited by Mars, Nov 30 2010, 03:34 AM.



DT-170x	Nov 30 2010, 04:10 AM Post #5
Posts: 1,766 Group: Members Member #7 Joined: Apr 3, 2010	Quote: Religions change their rules all the time, look into the history of the church... learn something... They usually something change Religiosity It usually Power. And communists Society Favored No-Religion (I wounder preaching atheism counts as a Religion under a communist society)due to that Freedom to choose a Religion counts as a freedom and also a threat to their government system. Quote: For someone who wishes for the bashing to go away you sure started off with a bang. All this is completely baseless... a typical biased an uneducated view in which the assumed moral company(religion) is acting out and lashing(immoral) against other communities.... How I am bashing. I just give my point of view (With out bashing or being biased) and that statement can start a flamewar. Really Robert started on about atheism. (This topic can have the potential for a flame war if DM and PP enter at the same time posting ) And back on Topic. How can some people prove god exists on a mathematical formula? I can understand almost everything but I am stumped on that one. Edit: Fixed some grammar issues. Edited by DT-170x, Nov 30 2010, 05:58 AM.



Martho	Nov 30 2010, 05:21 AM Post #6
Posts: 1,404 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Apr 3, 2010 Activity Level Active	I wasn't able to understand most of the above post due to bad English.



DT-170x	Nov 30 2010, 05:56 AM Post #7
Posts: 1,766 Group: Members Member #7 Joined: Apr 3, 2010	Martho Nov 30 2010, 05:21 AM I wasn't able to understand most of the above post due to bad English. English(Grammer Wise) is not my Best quality and I am posting late at night.



Mars	Nov 30 2010, 04:30 PM Post #8
Posts: 1,113 Group: Members Member #39 Joined: Oct 27, 2010	My language skills are a mess, I'm honestly not sure which one is even my primary language anymore... >.< Looking for mathematical proof for a deity, if that is the venture of a religious man, would require applying the deity in a worldly and physically manner(which if the man is religious he obviously cannot do). You cannot count what is not physically their... you can assume a value but then you wouldn't be supplying proof. Kinda like black holes, mathematical 'proof' was submitted but contrary to the belief of the scientific communities acceptance this is not proof, as their is no physical known account of them in which we can honestly observe.... As Stephen himself has become aware, and is currently writing a new formula, the only way for a black hole to even exist it would have to not ever exist... (due to issues such as how is it we have located these black holes by the radiation that supposedly escapes it, despite the mass not even allowing light to escape. It's far more likely we have simply been observing radioactive masses that have limited reflection) Edited by DarthMarus, Dec 1 2010, 11:41 PM.



Thinvader747	Nov 30 2010, 04:57 PM Post #9
I can seeeeeee youuuuuuu Posts: 1,699 Group: Members Member #6 Joined: Apr 3, 2010 Activity Level Active What version of GM do you use? 7 Pro	I think the very idea that scientific proof can be applied to religion denies the whole concept of being faithful. The existence of a god cannot be proved by any scientific means as the consept of a god is illogical to many people - those who are firm believers that everything conforms to the same logical rules and will not believe anything that isn't provable, such as myself, cannot be religious. As science is becoming more prominent in society, more and more people are losing faith due to lack of hard evidence, which a scientific approach tries to provide. For everything. So scientific proof of a deity is impossible, and therefore should not be saught out.
	"The best thing about the British is our ability to laugh at ourselves. By ourselves I mean other people. And by laugh I mean invade." - Jimmy Carr


Deleted User	Dec 2 2010, 12:11 AM Post #10
Deleted User	there is no such thing as a logical proof for god. jsut as there is no such thing as religious science. quite simply, science and all organized religions cancel each other out. both prove the other wrong completley. logic cannot be applied to a god. by the very definition of both. there's is no point arguing logically the existence of god. my proof is logic, science, the obvious existence of a unified field theory, the uncertainty princible, and human suffering. the religious proof is in the bible or other holy book, and in feelings long-held and passed down. both logic and religion are based on circular logic. assumptions based upon assumptions. religious one- god exists because bible said so bible is true because it is the one true word of god scientific- an idea of an explaination a theory testing observation more observing more testing revising peer review even more testing and revising, which is applied to thing previously unexplained. at some point another idea appears. cycle continues. both are examples of perfect, sealed logic. because all reasoning is based on assumptions. religious beleif does not have observation-based logic as a given. therefore it is exampt from being judged by observation. however, science and logic are observation-based. so as god cannot be observed, god cannot exist by logic. the only way god can be observed is in, say, a holy book. which, i'll admit, goes through as much editing, re-writing and revision as ANY scientific theory. the only thing worth debating is HOW religion is practiced. for example, issues of homophobia, insane moral systems, cults, spaghetti monsters, pedophillia, and forcing your beleifs on other people. there is, of course, the similar idea that science is being forced upon young, impressionable people. but the fact is, everyone has the ability to observe. anyone who denies evolution should be forced to take the origional strain of pennicilin. then be told to "pray harder" when it isn't killing the bacteriums who have evolved in response to it. as may be obvious im not fond of religion at this moment... i may explain what happened in a new topic.
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DT-170x	Dec 2 2010, 10:47 PM Post #11
Posts: 1,766 Group: Members Member #7 Joined: Apr 3, 2010	Quote: forcing your beleifs Ain't athistism doing the same thing that you are stating... Hypocrisy at it finest. Quote: religious one- god exists because bible said so bible is true because it is the one true word of god scientific- an idea of an explaination a theory testing observation more observing more testing revising peer review even more testing and revising, which is applied to thing previously unexplained. at some point another idea appears. cycle continues. Typical robotic Bashing. Religionish People Pray Harder while atheist yell Louder.(not all people do this and got some respect to other people.) Scientific data can be altered for political reasons.... Like Global Warming. Oh Wait Climate Change.....Wait again Climate Disruption. Edited by DT-170x, Dec 3 2010, 03:28 AM.



Deleted User	Dec 3 2010, 02:25 AM Post #12
Deleted User	lolwut
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Thinvader747	Dec 3 2010, 07:56 PM Post #13
I can seeeeeee youuuuuuu Posts: 1,699 Group: Members Member #6 Joined: Apr 3, 2010 Activity Level Active What version of GM do you use? 7 Pro	DarthMarus Dec 3 2010, 02:25 AM lolwut My thoughts exactly
	"The best thing about the British is our ability to laugh at ourselves. By ourselves I mean other people. And by laugh I mean invade." - Jimmy Carr


Deleted User	Dec 4 2010, 01:56 AM Post #14
Deleted User	like seriously....
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Robert	Dec 4 2010, 02:09 AM Post #15
Posts: 7,393 Group: Members Member #3 Joined: Apr 3, 2010 What version of GM do you use? 6 Pro	Leave it to DM to post yet another caption
	I'm going to be serving a two year Mission for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in Texas in both English and American Sign Language


Deleted User	Dec 4 2010, 02:10 AM Post #16
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Robert	Dec 4 2010, 02:28 PM Post #17
Posts: 7,393 Group: Members Member #3 Joined: Apr 3, 2010 What version of GM do you use? 6 Pro
	I'm going to be serving a two year Mission for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in Texas in both English and American Sign Language


Deleted User	Dec 4 2010, 03:46 PM Post #18
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Robert	Dec 4 2010, 04:45 PM Post #19
Posts: 7,393 Group: Members Member #3 Joined: Apr 3, 2010 What version of GM do you use? 6 Pro	HA HA DISREGARD THAT DARTHMARUS IS AWESOME LOL LOL LOL THIS WASNT EDITED
	I'm going to be serving a two year Mission for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in Texas in both English and American Sign Language


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