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|It's GO TIME! (war discussion); how do you feel when you here "WAR"?|
|Topic Started: Sep 10 2009, 08:13 PM (145 Views)|
|Asura-sama||Sep 10 2009, 08:13 PM Post #1|
Graduation is not the end
I've noticed most topics here are important issues seen by the world today, but one issue missing is the highly common aspect of WAR.
I'd like to know if you support war, how you feel about war, if you have experienced a loss as a result of the war, or any war related things. I want to know how you all feel about the current "War on Terror", and how you have felt in previous war situations, if you have experienced any.
At the moment, I'm not going to say much, but what I do have to say is.... well... you decide.
I find war to be a disgusting, degrading show of force, impeding on another country's right to lead itself. Religious wars offend me the most, because I doubt claiming a murder was in the name of god will get you anywhere peaceful in the afterlife. War is a bloody massacre of people posing even the slightest bit of threat to you.
There are few wars however, i would have supported, had i been alive at the time.
America's Civil War, and other wars for the removal of slavery
World War 2
These wars were fought because people wanted to protect OTHER PEOPLE
The revolutionary war (America) was fought to protect civil liberties encroached upon by the English Monarchy
America's Civil War was fought to give African Peoples the right to freedom in America, like they should have had from the beginning
World war 2... Mass genocide needed to stop. BEFORE it started. However, that did not happen, but we saved as many as we possible could and killed a mass murderer for his crimes, and removed the evil from the government of germany over time.
So tell me, what do you think about war? I'd like to here a response from as many people as possible.
|Yume||Sep 11 2009, 03:58 AM Post #2|
Early in his presidency, Abe was convinced that white Americans would never accept black Americans. “You and we are different races,” the president told a committee of “colored” leaders in August 1862. “…But for your race among us there could not be war…It is better for us both, therefore, to be separated.” Lincoln proposed voluntary emigration to Central America, seeing it as a more convenient destination than Liberia. This idea didn’t sit well with leaders like Frederick Douglass, who considered colonization to be “a safety valve…for white racism.”
The Civil War was fundamentally about ending secession of some states from the United States. The driving force behind the secession was the dispute about slavery.
Lincoln once said he wanted to 'save the union' whether he could do it freeing all, some or no slaves because that was what his priority was - 'save the union'.
It was all about money, as most conflicts are when you get down to it. The morality issues normally play in later to justify things, and to keep people thinking they are fighting for a 'cause'.
Actually, back then the Federal government was having some dire money problems (does anything ever change?) and the Southern states (who favored the rights of states over 'big government') were unhappy that they were paying more than their fair share of taxes in order to keep a Federal government (that they didn't really want in the first place) trudging along.
They were also unhappy at the high prices they had to pay from the North for farm machinery (since the Northern states where more geared towards industrialization and the south had limited production means). The South wanted to buy their machines from Europe, who would have given them better prices, but the North made that difficult through the tariff system (adding tariffs to imported goods in order to create a 'level' playing field for businesses who can't compete otherwise - or make the money they desire to make).
Where the South made their critical mistake was a 'Screw You' gesture to the North as they were planning to secede. They announced their plans to make all Southern ports no tariff zones, where the Europeans could bring in their goods without paying any extra fees (No wonder the European countries where so pro-South). Since the border between North and South was totally porous, cheaper European goods would have flooded over the border into the North, proving disastrous to northern businessmen and causing the financial ruin of the Federal Government. It would have been 'game over' for the North and the Union without firing a shot.
Before the South made that declaration, many Northern businessmen where sympathetic to the South seceding, after it they howled for the South's destruction.
The slavery issue didn't really become an issue until later in the war, unfortunately the South picked it up and also tried to make it a rallying cry, which didn't do them any favors.
But, as they say, the winner writes the history books.
The Southern soldiers were fighting for their culture and way of life, for what they believed in, the Northern soldiers were mainly just doing what the government told them to do. Maybe that explains why an agrarian culture held off such a more powerful opponent (the North could produce about 10X the guns that the South could) for so long, but in the end, there wasn't really any doubt about the outcome.
The slaves were not treated as bad as we have been told. I know that for a fact. My family is of German descent, mostly, but when they arrived in American some of them branched off to the south. That being my closest ancestors. They, my ancestors, bought slaves when they were in the North and brought them to the south with them. My ancestors let their slaves take our family name when they gave them their freedom, as did so many other slave owners. You see, what my ancestors did, they bought slaves and took care of them until they could take care of themselves, then they gave the slaves their freedom and started the process all over again.
Although, later on, my family did move back to Germany. This, I was told, was due to the poor health of family members. When the holocaust occurred, my family moved back.
You may say, well, thats your family. But it wasn't just my family that was like that, because since I was a child I have been told many stories about my ancestors experiences in both the Early United States and Germany. I have been told many times that most of the stuff we learn in school about wars are lies. They never tell us the full truth, because they don't want us to know.
As for World War II, I'll get back to you on that one.
...I seem to have lost that good, philosophical quote I was going to put here.|
|ParanoidKitten||Sep 25 2009, 12:04 AM Post #3|
Admin of Echii ♂
The winners write the history books as they say (will get back to this)
If you say the Revolutionary war was a good war then shouldn't you also support another revolution against the current government for things like imminent-domain and all the other crap they decide is in your best interest?
I would soooo start a revolution if i didn't know i'd probably get killed before i accomplished anything
on the civil war, well obviously not 'ALL' slaves were treated horribly thought that doesn't mean most/some/small fraction weren't. And honestly Yume it seems atleast form what you've heard from your gfamily your family probably were abolitionist's to some degree, atleast compared to the stereotypical image of a slave owner. Though i do wonder about the 'until they could take care of themselves' part, though that line of thinking wasn't limited to any specific area, actually it was considered as more or less scientific fact by most white people north and south before during and after (including now for a surprising amount of people) that slaves/black people in general were stupid/inferior.
Everyone has their own point of view, their experiences are interpreted from it, which is why there can be such wildly different version of history based on who you ask, this is why in general those that come out with the best outcome generally have the loudest voice about what happened. It's hard to disagree with something when your dead after all. History changes as time moves on and the books are rewritten and edited.
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