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Germany and their cars; coming around to fair trade
Topic Started: Jun 20 2018, 08:39 PM (309 Views)
Brewster
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If we tried to match the US, we'd have to push our subsidies and tax breaks to new highs - I don't think we could afford it.

The US has always subsidized products and handed out tax breaks more than Canada ever did, and you can't afford it either - look at your soaring debt.
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Berton
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Prove it.

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Brewster
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You think I'm going to review every Billion Dollar subsidy the US has paid out over the years? Forget it.

But let's look at the latest kerfuffle, Milk subsidies:
Quote:
 
In 2012 the total was $447,081,952. Between 1995 and 2012 dairy producers raked in $5.3 billion in handouts. And that’s just the federal subsidies; states have their own programs. Plus, the amounts that go directly into dairy farmers’ pockets are dwarfed by the cash dumped on soy and corn producers, who supply the food dairy cows live on. The free money that soy and corn sellers get translates into lower costs for dairy farms when they buy “feed,”
Dairy Subsidies

US Government Subsidies - At least $5.7 Billion per year, probably a couple of Billion more.

Canada's Taxpayer Paid Subsidies - Zero.

And How about Automobile Subsidies? Canada has become a Bit Player in Auto Subsidies

Think man, think.
Edited by Brewster, Jun 22 2018, 06:29 AM.
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Brewster
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Just for the heck of it, I looked up Commercial Airliner production subsidies:

Quote:
 
The company {Boeing} received $457 million in federal grants, which are typically non-repayable, between 2000 and 2014. In addition to that, there was a whopping $64 billion in federal loans and loan guarantees.

That, combined with $18 billion in contract awards in fiscal 2014 alone, make Boeing “exceptionally favored by Uncle Sam,” notes the report.

But that’s not all. Boeing also received an eye-popping $13 billion in state and local subsidies over the same 15-year period.

Thirty-six per cent of Boeing’s $94.5 billion revenue for 2016 came from the U.S. Department of Defense (U.S. DoD), according to the company’s financial statements. Those military dollars are an “indirect help” for Boeing’s commercial aircraft business, noted Mitchell.

Even if one assumes modest spillover from the research and development (R&D) activity that Boeing conducts on behalf of the U.S. DoD, “the R&D resources they have and the scale they’re able to generate by virtue of their military business gives them inherent advantages,” said Jesse Goldman, partner at Bennett Jones in Toronto.
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Bombardier has sunk about $6 billion {of its own money} in the CSeries so far. After all, Bombardier will have to repay the $372.5 million in financial help recently pledged by Ottawa. And Quebec’s $1 billion contribution was in exchange for a 49.5 per cent equity stake in the CSeries program, which you might call “an investment,” said Mitchell.
The score?

Boeing about $77.5 Billion in subsidies, and another $94.5 Billion in guaranteed sales over 15 Years.

Bombardier about $1.4 Million in the last year from the Feds, $1 Billion (with strings) from Quebec.

Canada is not even in the same league as the US when it comes to subsidies.
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ImaHeadaU
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Berton
Jun 22 2018, 05:05 AM
When is Canada going to drop as much on it's tariffs and so called subsidies as the US did when NAFTA started?
Please show us how much if any the U.S. dropped it's subsidies.
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Pat
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ImaHeadaU
Jun 22 2018, 01:27 AM
Pat
Jun 21 2018, 11:12 PM
ImaHeadaU
Jun 21 2018, 08:40 AM
Pat
Jun 21 2018, 03:41 AM
Right now the only government subsidies on American made autos is limited to environmental issues (paying tax rebates for EVs).
The Federal U.S. Government subsidized the big three $80.7 billion between January 2009 and December 2013.

Free trade policy would had been to let Chrysler and GM to go bankrupt.

It's 2018 Ima.
Government subsidies from previous decades have enabled businesses to establish plants and procedures that give them an unfair advantage over competitors who have not received those subsidies.
That's not true in the United States but nice try.
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Pat
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Brewster
Jun 22 2018, 06:21 AM
You think I'm going to review every Billion Dollar subsidy the US has paid out over the years? Forget it.

But let's look at the latest kerfuffle, Milk subsidies:
Quote:
 
In 2012 the total was $447,081,952. Between 1995 and 2012 dairy producers raked in $5.3 billion in handouts. And that’s just the federal subsidies; states have their own programs. Plus, the amounts that go directly into dairy farmers’ pockets are dwarfed by the cash dumped on soy and corn producers, who supply the food dairy cows live on. The free money that soy and corn sellers get translates into lower costs for dairy farms when they buy “feed,”
Dairy Subsidies

US Government Subsidies - At least $5.7 Billion per year, probably a couple of Billion more.

Canada's Taxpayer Paid Subsidies - Zero.

And How about Automobile Subsidies? Canada has become a Bit Player in Auto Subsidies

Think man, think.
In rare instances our government hands out cash, generally any help is in the realm of tax or fee reductions or allowances. This has nothing to do with our dept. Our debt is not handled they way you would handle general ledger accounts. The debt is never going to be paid and is but a bench mark used to express our economy. Our inflation is kept in check and we always have plenty of money available in the economy.
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Pat
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When discussing trade, tariffs, and markets, I think it's important to note that Canada's largest companies by value, and largest employers, tend to be foreign-owned in a way that is more typical of a developing nation than a G7 member. The best example is the automotive sector, one of Canada's most important industries. It is dominated by American, German, and Japanese giants. Although this situation is not unique to Canada in the global context, it is unique among G-7 nations, and many other relatively small nations also have national automotive companies.
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ImaHeadaU
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Pat
Jun 22 2018, 07:47 AM
ImaHeadaU
Jun 22 2018, 01:27 AM
Pat
Jun 21 2018, 11:12 PM
ImaHeadaU
Jun 21 2018, 08:40 AM
Pat
Jun 21 2018, 03:41 AM
Right now the only government subsidies on American made autos is limited to environmental issues (paying tax rebates for EVs).
The Federal U.S. Government subsidized the big three $80.7 billion between January 2009 and December 2013.

Free trade policy would had been to let Chrysler and GM to go bankrupt.

It's 2018 Ima.
Government subsidies from previous decades have enabled businesses to establish plants and procedures that give them an unfair advantage over competitors who have not received those subsidies.
That's not true in the United States but nice try.
Quote:
 
Baojun is the hottest brand GM has in China. Sales of the bargain-priced vehicles soared 52% in November to 113,711 units, accounting for over a quarter of GM's total sales in China.

GM launched Baojun in 2010, after the "New GM" had emerged from Chapter 11 bankruptcy in the US in July 2009, with Debtor in Possession (DIP) financing and equity investments from the US taxpayer. This support helped GM go on an investment spree in China, and, along with its joint-venture partner SAIC, plow $2.4 billion in the Baojun factory in Liuzhou, even as many former GM plants in the US had been shuttered and were disposed of in bankruptcy.
GM's business is booming in China
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