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100 Million Worker Units; People the Elite Don't need
Topic Started: Aug 12 2016, 09:16 PM (333 Views)
Banandangees
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But one could just as easily say that people who make the system seem unfair and not so great. People who see socialism as an means to a good end for all and who "feel" distain for those of effort and success.

You should know by now that my thinking is that since the 60s our liberal policies toward the poor has given them little to no incentive to rise above, has grown the ghettos and has done much to "keep them in their place."

I'm not fighting change. I just don't see progressive democratic socialism as the answer. History doesn't lend much to my thinking differently.

But still, I'm confused as to what you are looking for as set forth in your original OP. It doesn't look as though you are really interested in knowing what to do with your excess employees?
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Corky52
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Ban,
There is a huge pile of human capital and tech capital that the current system sidelines because if doesn't fit into the capitalistic system.

Maybe we reduce the work week to thirty hours.

Maybe we build a high speed train system that allows people to live in a less dense social structure.

Maybe we do away with oil as a major fuel.

Lots of projects, just most don't fit into your capitalistic system.


:smoker:
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colo_crawdad
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While I do not agree with it, Ayn Rand's phi8losophy of selfishness would tell lus that since the owner elite has absolutely no responsibility to anyone but himself or herself, the elites should be making the decisions about worker units.
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Banandangees
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This owner elite that you folks are talking about, how does that differ from the government elite in terms of who has what and way of life. The way I have seen the more socialistic societies, especially the more "progressed socialistic societies, you have the elite (government leaders) and then the rest of the mediocre folks.... like Saudi Arabia (which is an advanced socialistic welfare state progressed to an autocracy), or Venezuela or Cuba. Common poor folks and the elite.
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Corky52
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Ban,
Part of the problem is social outlook, change for how people look at large accumulation of power of any type. Spread people out, make them more independent, hi-density is anti-freedom.


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Banandangees
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So, are you spreading your workers work week to less than 40 hours to accommodate those of your employees who are idle? If so, how do those of your employees who are working full time feel about reduced hours and reduced earnings (and probably reduced benefits, depending)? Are you as owner cutting back on your hours and earnings as well? That would be true in a pure socialistic society.... but the real governmental socialistic society makes an exception for the "elite" (the leaders). They may reduce their hours actually worked, but find a way to maintain their earnings..... and benefits.... because someone will pay for it... usually your workers who have cut hours.

Can you run a private business socialistically as a government might if it a socialistic government, in order to keep things "even steven?" Try it. Can you compete against someone in the same business who runs that business capitalistically (all other things being equal)? I don't think you can. If I'm right, how can a socialistic government out perform a capitalistic government? One way would be to "inject money" into the system. But then the socialistic government increases its debt and/or reduce the buying power of the currency the reduced hour employees make..... something we read about now ... that the average worker not only hasn't gotten a raise, his dollar doesn't buy as much. So then, the government that is attempting to become more socialistic creates unrest to the point that a guy like Trump gets attention... and if it wouldn't be for his big mouth and the left media's exploiting of it, he would beat a candidate like Hillary.... no problem. Someone is going to pay for all the new freebees Hillary and Sanders have been feeding the masses and just increased taxes of the filthy rich won't do it. We need major changes in our government I agree. It's a matter of which direction the people will choose.... and I think the die is set. We have generation upon generation of entitlement seekers that is not only not going to go away, but is increasing. Let's see what happens in Germany over the next decade.. Well, let you see what happens in Germany over the next decade, I doubt that I will be.... or by then care to be.
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Brewster
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Ban, there aren't enough jobs to go around, mostly due to automation and better technology, and the situation is getting worse. And by now we know that the usual Right Wing idea of reducing taxes on the rich with no restrictions ends up with more automation and/or more jobs going overseas while the rich get richer.

I'm ready to agree that simply handing the unemployed a bunch of money is also a bad idea.

So what do you suggest?

Please let's take the "Socialist" and "Capitalist" labels off all ideas, and tell me of a possible solution which hasn't already been tried and failed.
Edited by Brewster, Aug 13 2016, 01:26 AM.
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Banandangees
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Brew, maybe the first question that should be asked and answered considering the OP: "We have excess capacity, what should we do with worker units we don't need?... is not "what should we do," but should be to ask and answer, "what should we not do? What should each country not do if "unneeded worker units" is a major problem?

Any thoughts on that?
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Thumper
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Years ago we were told that robotics will replace workers but building robotics will employ the workers displaced. Still no sense today.
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Corky52
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I love the new bean counter software, puts bean counters on the street , about one in twenty will keep their jobs! I also love getting my insurance on-line, save dealing with those sanctimonious little men.


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