Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
An Ill Wind: Open Season on Bald Eagles; Sacrificing 4,200 of the birds a year for green energy sounds fine to regulators.
Topic Started: May 25 2016, 02:21 AM (2,047 Views)
Berton
Member Avatar
Thunder Fan
[ * ]
ImaHeadaU
May 25 2016, 12:49 PM
Berton
May 25 2016, 12:10 PM
ImaHeadaU
May 25 2016, 10:55 AM
Berton
May 25 2016, 10:23 AM
It is in the OP, if you would try reading it instead of jumping at taking things out of context to try to show I am wrong about something.

That ruling is still under appeal.

http://www.law360.com/articles/712787/fish-and-wildlife-appeals-eagle-permit-ruling-to-9th-circ

http://www.open-public-records.com/court/california-15385089.htm

Yes, that is what I said which you are trying to say is not correct. Sorry but you lost this one too.


The fact is eagles are being killed in large numbers by green energy and you would condemn any other industry for doing it.

We really don't know that "eagles are being killed in large numbers by green energy" although some, such as yourself, believe they do. However, we should find out if, indeed, that is the case. We should also determine just how much the population of golden and bald eagles have recovered in the continental U.S. in recent decades. All of this information would be quite useful when making decisions that might affect their population growth.

The report said they were. If you want to not believe it I really don't care. You wouldn't believe it of someone said the sky looks blue unless the LWEC told you so.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Berton
Member Avatar
Thunder Fan
[ * ]
Thumper
May 26 2016, 12:40 AM
Exactly how many eagles have been found tits up under a windmill? Until we know that, we can only assume this concern is driven by big oil and coal.it there is in fact a large gaggle of eagles killed and threatening the survival of the species, I say better them than us.

Read the OP.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Berton
Member Avatar
Thunder Fan
[ * ]
Brewster
May 26 2016, 12:44 AM
Quote:
 
Oil Pollution and Birds

•Oil may escape from ships through accidents or through deliberate dumping.
•Every year, more than 300 000 birds are killed by oil off the south coast of the island of Newfoundland alone.
•Many oiled birds that wash ashore must be humanely killed, because cleaning oiled birds is largely ineffective.

How Oil Harms Birds

Oil and birds don’t mix. The wrecked super-tanker, spewing a black tide of oil, has become a powerful symbol of ocean pollution and of humans’ destruction of the natural environment. So have the dying seabirds that strand on the beach, black with oil.

Oil kills birds in many ways. Its first effect is to break down the birds’ waterproofing. Water runs off a seabird’s back because the bird is protected by a layer of feathers, overlapping like the tiles on a roof (see Figure 1).

Dead bird due to oil The fine structure of the feathers makes them waterproof. The separate strands, or barbs, in each feather are bound together by rows of tiny hooks, or barbules, into a tight weave that water cannot penetrate. Underneath is a layer of insulating downy feathers that allows the bird’s skin to stay warm, and beneath the skin is a layer of body fat that can add some insulation. This waterproof system works like a winter coat whose outer waterproof layer covers a thicker layer of material that traps air, keeping the wearer warm and dry.

The system works well because the bird spends much of its leisure nibbling at its feathers, cleaning off any specks of dirt and rehooking the barbules. This preening keeps the feathers supple and waterproof. But it takes very little to disturb the intricate arrangements that make up a seabird’s feather “coat.” Oil destroys the coat by clogging the barbs and barbules, allowing cold water to soak into the insulating down and reach the skin. Even a small amount of oil—a spot no bigger than a quarter—may be enough to kill a seabird.

A healthy seabird maintains a body temperature of 41°C—about two degrees higher than the body temperature of humans—and has no problem swimming and diving in icy waters. But once the bird is touched by oil, its body heat drains away through the “tear” in its protective plumage. The bird tries to maintain its body temperature by burning its energy reserves stored as body fat, but these are soon exhausted.

Effects of oil on a feather: When fat reserves are used up, a bird will burn up its flight muscles to maintain body heat. It may also try to save itself by spending even more energy in search of food. In this pursuit it is handicapped by its extra burden of soaked feathers and weakness, and the exhausted bird will soon die. In the cold waters around the coasts of Canada, hypothermia is usually the cause of death.

The bird’s other immediate response to oiling is to preen itself to try to restore the feathers’ waterproofing. Inevitably, as it preens, the bird inhales and swallows toxic compounds in the oil that can damage its liver, lungs, kidneys, intestines, and other internal organs. This poisoning can kill a seabird, but it is slower to take effect than is loss of body heat. Oil on the feathers of an incubating seabird may also be carried to its eggs, and if the oil soaks through the shell, it can kill the embryo or cause abnormalities in the developing chick.
Link

As the OP stated, other industries will get fined and their people possibly go to jail but green energy gets a pass. Thanks for verifying that.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ImaHeadaU
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Berton
May 26 2016, 05:48 AM
ImaHeadaU
May 25 2016, 12:49 PM
Berton
May 25 2016, 12:10 PM
ImaHeadaU
May 25 2016, 10:55 AM
Berton
May 25 2016, 10:23 AM
It is in the OP, if you would try reading it instead of jumping at taking things out of context to try to show I am wrong about something.

That ruling is still under appeal.

http://www.law360.com/articles/712787/fish-and-wildlife-appeals-eagle-permit-ruling-to-9th-circ

http://www.open-public-records.com/court/california-15385089.htm

Yes, that is what I said which you are trying to say is not correct. Sorry but you lost this one too.


The fact is eagles are being killed in large numbers by green energy and you would condemn any other industry for doing it.

We really don't know that "eagles are being killed in large numbers by green energy" although some, such as yourself, believe they do. However, we should find out if, indeed, that is the case. We should also determine just how much the population of golden and bald eagles have recovered in the continental U.S. in recent decades. All of this information would be quite useful when making decisions that might affect their population growth.

The report said they were. If you want to not believe it I really don't care. You wouldn't believe it of someone said the sky looks blue unless the LWEC told you so.
Since vehicle collisions and electrocution are the number 2 and 3 leading causes of death for eagles, perhaps we should ban motor vehicles or power lines in their areas of habitat?

Quote:
 
Trauma and poisoning have been the leading causes of death for bald eagles submitted to the National Wildlife Health Center since 1975 (Russell and Franson, 201
4), so anthropogenic factors account for most discovered bald eagle deaths. However, inferences from opportunistically found dead raptors can be misleading indicators of the overall importance of different mortality agents, because deaths from some causes are more apt to be discovered (Kenward et al. 1993). A study of satellite-tagged bald eagles from Florida, which usually provides less-biased information on the relative importance of different mortality factors, indicated starvation and disease, vehicle collisions, electrocution, and poisoning, in that order, were leading causes of death (Millsap et al., 2004).
...
the Service's estimate of total population size for bald eagles in the coterminous U.S. increased from 2009 to 2016 (68,923 in 2009 to 72,434 in 2016) due to the substantial increase in the estimated number of occupied nesting territories in the lower 48 states over that period.
...
Major causes of golden eagle deaths were (1) starvation, which was largely restricted to eagles in their first year; (2) illegal poisoning; (3) illegal shooting; (4) intra
-specific fighting; (5) collisions with power distribution lines, vehicles, and wind turbines; and (6) electrocution (USFWS, 2016, Table 8).
...
USFWS (2016) updated estimates of golden eagle population size and trend for the western United States for the period 1967 – 2014, using a model that integrated data from a late summer aerial transect survey of golden eagles conducted annually since 2006 (Nielson et al., 2014) with BBS counts; see Millsap et al. (2013) for more details on this approach. The updated analysis indicated a late summer population averaging 31,000 (20th quantile = 29,000) over the most recent decade (Figure 3.3-4 in this PEIS and Figure 7 in USFWS, 2016), and total coterminous western U.S. population of 30,000 (20th quantile = 27,000) for 2009.
Draft Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement United States Fish and Wildlife Service
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Brewster
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Berton
 
The fact is eagles are being killed in large numbers by green energy and you would condemn any other industry for doing it.

Total nonsense. 4200 Eagles get killed in the whole of the US while 300,000 birds are killed off the coasts of Newfoundland alone? Hardly "large numbers"...

In the meantime, you and your partner never made ANY effort to find out how many eagles have been saved by cutting pollution throughout their range.

Totally bogus.

I wouldn't condemn any industry until I knew the whole story.
Edited by Brewster, May 26 2016, 11:28 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Neutral
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Total nonsense. We know birds are being killed in large amounts and I gave one of many links to studies.
You libs will say anything to promote your BS.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Berton
Member Avatar
Thunder Fan
[ * ]
ImaHeadaU
May 26 2016, 10:53 AM
Berton
May 26 2016, 05:48 AM
ImaHeadaU
May 25 2016, 12:49 PM
Berton
May 25 2016, 12:10 PM
ImaHeadaU
May 25 2016, 10:55 AM
Berton
May 25 2016, 10:23 AM
It is in the OP, if you would try reading it instead of jumping at taking things out of context to try to show I am wrong about something.

That ruling is still under appeal.

http://www.law360.com/articles/712787/fish-and-wildlife-appeals-eagle-permit-ruling-to-9th-circ

http://www.open-public-records.com/court/california-15385089.htm

Yes, that is what I said which you are trying to say is not correct. Sorry but you lost this one too.


The fact is eagles are being killed in large numbers by green energy and you would condemn any other industry for doing it.

We really don't know that "eagles are being killed in large numbers by green energy" although some, such as yourself, believe they do. However, we should find out if, indeed, that is the case. We should also determine just how much the population of golden and bald eagles have recovered in the continental U.S. in recent decades. All of this information would be quite useful when making decisions that might affect their population growth.

The report said they were. If you want to not believe it I really don't care. You wouldn't believe it of someone said the sky looks blue unless the LWEC told you so.
Since vehicle collisions and electrocution are the number 2 and 3 leading causes of death for eagles, perhaps we should ban motor vehicles or power lines in their areas of habitat?

Quote:
 
Trauma and poisoning have been the leading causes of death for bald eagles submitted to the National Wildlife Health Center since 1975 (Russell and Franson, 201
4), so anthropogenic factors account for most discovered bald eagle deaths. However, inferences from opportunistically found dead raptors can be misleading indicators of the overall importance of different mortality agents, because deaths from some causes are more apt to be discovered (Kenward et al. 1993). A study of satellite-tagged bald eagles from Florida, which usually provides less-biased information on the relative importance of different mortality factors, indicated starvation and disease, vehicle collisions, electrocution, and poisoning, in that order, were leading causes of death (Millsap et al., 2004).
...
the Service's estimate of total population size for bald eagles in the coterminous U.S. increased from 2009 to 2016 (68,923 in 2009 to 72,434 in 2016) due to the substantial increase in the estimated number of occupied nesting territories in the lower 48 states over that period.
...
Major causes of golden eagle deaths were (1) starvation, which was largely restricted to eagles in their first year; (2) illegal poisoning; (3) illegal shooting; (4) intra
-specific fighting; (5) collisions with power distribution lines, vehicles, and wind turbines; and (6) electrocution (USFWS, 2016, Table 8).
...
USFWS (2016) updated estimates of golden eagle population size and trend for the western United States for the period 1967 – 2014, using a model that integrated data from a late summer aerial transect survey of golden eagles conducted annually since 2006 (Nielson et al., 2014) with BBS counts; see Millsap et al. (2013) for more details on this approach. The updated analysis indicated a late summer population averaging 31,000 (20th quantile = 29,000) over the most recent decade (Figure 3.3-4 in this PEIS and Figure 7 in USFWS, 2016), and total coterminous western U.S. population of 30,000 (20th quantile = 27,000) for 2009.
Draft Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement United States Fish and Wildlife Service

Changing the subject does not help your position. Quit the game playing if you want me to respond to your posts.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Berton
Member Avatar
Thunder Fan
[ * ]
Brewster
May 26 2016, 11:28 AM
Berton
 
The fact is eagles are being killed in large numbers by green energy and you would condemn any other industry for doing it.

Total nonsense. 4200 Eagles get killed in the whole of the US while 300,000 birds are killed off the coasts of Newfoundland alone? Hardly "large numbers"...

In the meantime, you and your partner never made ANY effort to find out how many eagles have been saved by cutting pollution throughout their range.

Totally bogus.

I wouldn't condemn any industry until I knew the whole story.

4200 eagles killed in a population so small is large numbers. In the mean time you keep trying to divert from the tragedy with bogus numbers which have nothing to do with the subject.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ImaHeadaU
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Berton
May 26 2016, 09:00 PM
ImaHeadaU
May 26 2016, 10:53 AM
Berton
May 26 2016, 05:48 AM
ImaHeadaU
May 25 2016, 12:49 PM
Berton
May 25 2016, 12:10 PM
ImaHeadaU
May 25 2016, 10:55 AM
Berton
May 25 2016, 10:23 AM
It is in the OP, if you would try reading it instead of jumping at taking things out of context to try to show I am wrong about something.

That ruling is still under appeal.

http://www.law360.com/articles/712787/fish-and-wildlife-appeals-eagle-permit-ruling-to-9th-circ

http://www.open-public-records.com/court/california-15385089.htm

Yes, that is what I said which you are trying to say is not correct. Sorry but you lost this one too.


The fact is eagles are being killed in large numbers by green energy and you would condemn any other industry for doing it.

We really don't know that "eagles are being killed in large numbers by green energy" although some, such as yourself, believe they do. However, we should find out if, indeed, that is the case. We should also determine just how much the population of golden and bald eagles have recovered in the continental U.S. in recent decades. All of this information would be quite useful when making decisions that might affect their population growth.

The report said they were. If you want to not believe it I really don't care. You wouldn't believe it of someone said the sky looks blue unless the LWEC told you so.
Since vehicle collisions and electrocution are the number 2 and 3 leading causes of death for eagles, perhaps we should ban motor vehicles or power lines in their areas of habitat?

Quote:
 
Trauma and poisoning have been the leading causes of death for bald eagles submitted to the National Wildlife Health Center since 1975 (Russell and Franson, 201
4), so anthropogenic factors account for most discovered bald eagle deaths. However, inferences from opportunistically found dead raptors can be misleading indicators of the overall importance of different mortality agents, because deaths from some causes are more apt to be discovered (Kenward et al. 1993). A study of satellite-tagged bald eagles from Florida, which usually provides less-biased information on the relative importance of different mortality factors, indicated starvation and disease, vehicle collisions, electrocution, and poisoning, in that order, were leading causes of death (Millsap et al., 2004).
...
the Service's estimate of total population size for bald eagles in the coterminous U.S. increased from 2009 to 2016 (68,923 in 2009 to 72,434 in 2016) due to the substantial increase in the estimated number of occupied nesting territories in the lower 48 states over that period.
...
Major causes of golden eagle deaths were (1) starvation, which was largely restricted to eagles in their first year; (2) illegal poisoning; (3) illegal shooting; (4) intra
-specific fighting; (5) collisions with power distribution lines, vehicles, and wind turbines; and (6) electrocution (USFWS, 2016, Table 8).
...
USFWS (2016) updated estimates of golden eagle population size and trend for the western United States for the period 1967 – 2014, using a model that integrated data from a late summer aerial transect survey of golden eagles conducted annually since 2006 (Nielson et al., 2014) with BBS counts; see Millsap et al. (2013) for more details on this approach. The updated analysis indicated a late summer population averaging 31,000 (20th quantile = 29,000) over the most recent decade (Figure 3.3-4 in this PEIS and Figure 7 in USFWS, 2016), and total coterminous western U.S. population of 30,000 (20th quantile = 27,000) for 2009.
Draft Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement United States Fish and Wildlife Service

Changing the subject does not help your position.
I believe the topic of the thread is "An Ill Wind: Open Season on Bald Eagles". If we want to improve the fate of eagles, it would be best to get all the facts about the situation before introducing a plan to help the situation.

Quote:
 
Quit the game playing if you want me to respond to your posts.


If you see the search for the truth to be "game playing," I feel sorry for you.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Neutral
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Go stare and a windmill and report back to us how many birds are killed Ima.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Create your own social network with a free forum.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Fire And Ice General Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Website Traffic Analysis