Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Superpower Once Lived Here
Topic Started: Mar 23 2014, 12:47 AM (602 Views)
Berton
Member Avatar
Thunder Fan
[ * ]
telcoman
Mar 23 2014, 10:41 PM
Thank you, You finally come up with something. Now how do you know he will not do those things, if Russia follows through on this?

The circumstances with Russia are quite diferent today, especially with Europe being so reliant on Russian energy. However, the response is slowly being ramped up. Obama wants to ensure that the remainder of the world is on board. He has managed to get China to agree to abstain in the upcoming UN vote, which actually surprises me, since China could use the Russian precedent tp annex the disputed islands

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/21/obama-xi-jinping-china-russia-ukraine


The Russian dependency on oil and gas to keep their economy going is a disadvantage to them. The steps Carter took will almost kill the Russian economy and two more steps which Carter didn't have but Obama has available to him will kill it completely. Approve the Keystone Pipeline and accelerate rather than kill drilling permits on Federal land and sea. Just the announcement will drive oil and gas prices down.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Berton
Member Avatar
Thunder Fan
[ * ]
Pat
Mar 23 2014, 10:59 PM
Berton
Mar 23 2014, 09:36 AM
We lost the end of the Cold War. It is on again. Obama could have stopped it in it's tracks but failed as usual.

I think we need to recognize the true facts behind the chess game being played out. Our world policing is where Putin's greatest leverage lies in Ukraine. The U.S. needs him as a partner to complete major objectives with regard to Iran nuclear talks, the Syrian war, and negotiations between Israel and Palestine.

Quote -- "Everyone wants to avoid confrontation with Putin, pretend he’s an ally or at least that he can be worked with," Garry Kasparov, (a former grand chess master and loud critic of Putin and the Obama administration's strategy toward Russia -- told Business Insider. "This has always been a myth, and now everyone is finally realizing what a dangerous myth it was."

The crises are blending some of the thorniest issues of President Obama's second term. Example, on Wednesday, Russia Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov warned the U.S. of the consequences of further sanctions, saying it could re-calibrate its position on Iran. So you see Berton, the very policing activity that you and others have advocated on behalf is the reason behind how the annexation of the Crimean is being handled. Cause and affect.

So I have a question for you, should we abandon all diplomacy and influence in the middle east in order to remove some pawns being used against us in the Ukraine? In this way we could directly confront Russia and they would not have a gun against our heads? If so, who do we hand off the middle east to?

Your move.

T

What makes you think even for a moment that Russia was going to really help us anywhere when Obama shows weakness everywhere? All his actions have done is encourage Russia and all the other world tyrants. All through history it has been the same.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pat
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Berton
Mar 23 2014, 11:26 PM
telcoman
Mar 23 2014, 10:41 PM
Thank you, You finally come up with something. Now how do you know he will not do those things, if Russia follows through on this?

The circumstances with Russia are quite diferent today, especially with Europe being so reliant on Russian energy. However, the response is slowly being ramped up. Obama wants to ensure that the remainder of the world is on board. He has managed to get China to agree to abstain in the upcoming UN vote, which actually surprises me, since China could use the Russian precedent tp annex the disputed islands

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/21/obama-xi-jinping-china-russia-ukraine


The Russian dependency on oil and gas to keep their economy going is a disadvantage to them. The steps Carter took will almost kill the Russian economy and two more steps which Carter didn't have but Obama has available to him will kill it completely. Approve the Keystone Pipeline and accelerate rather than kill drilling permits on Federal land and sea. Just the announcement will drive oil and gas prices down.

Long term that strategy is viable, but right now it is hard to get gas export terminals built and the infrastructure in place to flood Russia's traditional customer base with real competition. They have a monopoly of sorts and Europe is under their thumb as a result. This is why I never trust Europe when dealing with Russia. And we don't have the resources or means to do anything about it right now.

Thank the gods that drilling on private lands has been so bountiful. I wonder if there is a way to convert the Keystone pipeline plans to one that replaces the crude mud from Canada with gas and premium oil from the upper Midwest and Rocky Mountain region? With arteries and veins extending into producing areas.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Berton
Member Avatar
Thunder Fan
[ * ]

Just the announcement would do the Russian economy in if Obama had frozen all the Russian assets from the beginning. Now it is probably too late.

It would have taken very little to send advisers and some weapons. A nit on the overall budget.

Edited by Berton, Mar 23 2014, 11:54 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pat
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Berton
Mar 23 2014, 11:52 PM
Just the announcement would do the Russian economy in if Obama had frozen all the Russian assets from the beginning. Now it is probably too late.

It would have taken very little to send advisers and some weapons. A nit on the overall budget.

Actually, we could have shut down their pipelines as they enter Europe. That is if Europe and the rest of the west truly wanted to being them to their knees. Hell you can't keep France from breaking boycotts, most of Europe is corrupt and has been for a couple thousand years.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Berton
Member Avatar
Thunder Fan
[ * ]

Pat, we don't have to shut down the pipelines or need France's help in bankrupting Russia. Even the weak responce Obama has made has dropped the Russian stock market some 10% and the Ruble has also gone down. Think what would have happened if we had done what I suggested.



Edited by Berton, Mar 24 2014, 12:05 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

I think he will ramp things up. I think he is wise to move slowly in steps and ensure The US is not acting alone on this. Russia has not yet formally annexed Crimea and I suspect they are still testing the waters. They actually have positioned themselves to suggest another internationally monitored vote on the areas future if they agree to withdraw troops. If a validated vote showed a clear high majority of residents wished to join Russia, then it would be more difficult to deny them that right. This is an odd situation, since the area was recently a part of Rusdia and most of its residents are essentially Russian. There are some parrallels here with Quebecs desire for succesion, although there are no French troops there.

This situation is far diferent from Carters time, when it was a simple us vs them. We are now far more intricately tied together.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pat
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Thee is a picture of Putin signing the annexation documents in the paper today. It's a done deal.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Neutral
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Yes, Telco is not informed again. Now will Putin keep going, I would say yes.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Pat
Mar 24 2014, 12:56 AM
Thee is a picture of Putin signing the annexation documents in the paper today. It's a done deal.
That one is news to me, but then again I am on the road
Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Fire And Ice General Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Website Traffic Analysis