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Before you critcise Obama on Ukraine
Topic Started: Mar 9 2014, 12:34 PM (577 Views)
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Most seem to have forgotten that Bush faced an almost identical sitiation when Russia sent troops into Georgia. Russia went in there claiming the same justification re ethnic Russians on that occasion as well.. Bush also showed little appetite for taking on Russia. Maybe that is why Putin thinks he can get away with it again, since he perceived a weak US response on that occasion. That situation eventally worked itself out, as hopefully this one will.

It would be ironic if Obamas response on this ends up being more hawklike than Bush's was.

Here is a comparison LINK
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Berton
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doglaugh

Obama went on vacation. No doubt he will have several rounds of golf to show just how tough he is.

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Banandangees
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Telco,

It will work itself out, but in who's favor? Oh, the nightmare of being a "super power." The US is weary of the load. The US is stepping down. Some other nation will have to step up. It won't be the EU, they don't do defense, not even when it's in their best interest... Libyan oil and now Russia's gas piped through the Ukraine is an example of them looking to the US for a solution. They expect it.... almost demand it. Will it be Canada who takes the lead? Australia? (I don't see them feeling that they have a dog in the EU's fight.)

The void most likely will be filled by China, Russia, assisted by the likes of Iran, NK.... and the like. Yes, the protectionist US is stepping down. It is evident by our recent budgeting of our military and treatment of it's personnel in favor of social matters. An emphasis change that exposes our direction. The "free world" domination is coming to an end. What happened to the Soviet Union just before it's collapse is happening with the US and with it goes the rest of the "free world." It was a good run.
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Pat
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I have pretty much said my piece on the Ukraine, we had an agreement to defend them against foreign aggression and we didn't. I don't know if we had an agreement with Georgia or not. I guess we have joined Canada, Britain and the res tin abandoning them.
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colo_crawdad
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Berton
Mar 9 2014, 01:19 PM
doglaugh

Obama went on vacation. No doubt he will have several rounds of golf to show just how tough he is.

doglaugh
I forgot about Bush not being "tough enough" to take on Russia over the Georgia invasion. Perhaps he felt he had more pressing business at the ranch.
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colo_crawdad
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Pat
Mar 9 2014, 09:54 PM
I have pretty much said my piece on the Ukraine, we had an agreement to defend them against foreign aggression and we didn't. I don't know if we had an agreement with Georgia or not. I guess we have joined Canada, Britain and the res tin abandoning them.
Do remember that we had nothing more of an"agreement" than a diplomatic memorandum. Never ratified by congress and nobody here has yet located the specific language of that memorandum.
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Berton
Mar 9 2014, 01:19 PM
doglaugh

Obama went on vacation. No doubt he will have several rounds of golf to show just how tough he is.

I see ypu have nothing substantial to contribute. Is that what you like to call "diverting"? Do you even remember the Georgia incident? Or would you prefer to forget it and the fact the current President is reacting in an identical fashion to your lord & saviour? (BTW, IMO, Bush probably reacted properly as well)
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Banandangees
Mar 9 2014, 09:08 PM
Telco,

It will work itself out, but in who's favor? Oh, the nightmare of being a "super power." The US is weary of the load. The US is stepping down. Some other nation will have to step up. It won't be the EU, they don't do defense, not even when it's in their best interest... Libyan oil and now Russia's gas piped through the Ukraine is an example of them looking to the US for a solution. They expect it.... almost demand it. Will it be Canada who takes the lead? Australia? (I don't see them feeling that they have a dog in the EU's fight.)

The void most likely will be filled by China, Russia, assisted by the likes of Iran, NK.... and the like. Yes, the protectionist US is stepping down. It is evident by our recent budgeting of our military and treatment of it's personnel in favor of social matters. An emphasis change that exposes our direction. The "free world" domination is coming to an end. What happened to the Soviet Union just before it's collapse is happening with the US and with it goes the rest of the "free world." It was a good run.
Ban, I think Russia is more sensitive to international diplomatic pressure than they used to be. I suspect they will back down as they did in Georgia, but even if they do not, there is little anyone can do about it. Crimea was a part of Russia before the USSR. It was designated part of Ukraine when Ukraine was part of the USSR. It is not as black & white as it appears on the surface. I suspect Russia is sabre rattling to ensure its right to maintain a naval base there. If the Cubans declared Guantanamo to now be Cuban Territory, would the US send in troops?

What makes you think Europe is looking to the US for a soultion? It seems to me all the western powers, Canada included, are putting diplomatic pressure on Russia. Turning this into a US Russia confrontation is the worst thing anyone could do.
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Pat
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Russia knows that among the modern societies with modern weapons, none of the other players will take you on. Even among their world foes, they have experienced much success and wins when engaging the modern armies. War itself is almost a dead stalemate, any bloody thirsty dictator can cut arms off women and kids and wreck havoc on the world with little repercussion long term. When you have countries like France cheating on agreed upon sanctions it is all absurd.
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Berton
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colo_crawdad
Mar 9 2014, 10:02 PM
Berton
Mar 9 2014, 01:19 PM
doglaugh

Obama went on vacation. No doubt he will have several rounds of golf to show just how tough he is.

doglaugh
I forgot about Bush not being "tough enough" to take on Russia over the Georgia invasion. Perhaps he felt he had more pressing business at the ranch.

Remember him taking a vacation in the Caribbean during that time?

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