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Envy vs. Achievement
Topic Started: Mar 4 2014, 08:42 PM (664 Views)
colo_crawdad
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Berton
Mar 7 2014, 08:43 AM
Did Truman demand and force on the citizenship a nationalized health plan? If so then you can say he was as liberal as Obama. If not then you can not make that claim. Not even Carter was that far left.

And Obama has not attempted to "nationalize" the Health industry. That's just a straw man argument of the US right wing.

No, Truman only tried ti nationalize the steel industry.
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Berton
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That was a war time decision. It had nothing to do with extreme left wing goals as shown by Obama.
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Banandangees
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colo_crawdad
Mar 7 2014, 08:43 AM
Ban,

Your interpretation of that biblical verse is significantly different than what I was taught in Bible School. I was taught that Jesus was speaking of the poor and destitute.

BTW Ban, have you read any of Rawls yet?


No, I haven't read Rawls to any length yet. My last post was addressing your Post #37 where you made the statement:

"For those wanting to re(a)d the Christian demand for liberalism concerning the poor and destitute might so well to read Matthew 25:40, link with explanation." You used a quote by Christ, seemingly to suggest that Christ's "Christianity" is liberal, as we use the terms liberalism on this forum for political/social purposes. Your statement in Post #37 is misleading of "Christian demand."

I don't think that anyone on this forum is not in favor of helping the truly "poor and destitute." Where you and I seem to be differing on "interpretation" is who Christ was describing as being the truly poor and truly destitute.


My argument (Christ was all things to all people) was that Christ was also "conservative" and asked for that as well (not demanded) and I used Christ's parable of the talents to suggest that. There are those who, using their God given talents (or Nature given talents if you wish), "rise up" above their "destitution" via their efforts in the use of those talents and there are those who waste there God given or Nature given talents and live off the coins in their tin cup. In his parable, punishment is suggested for a waste of those talents. His emphasis wasn't punishment, but on waste.

My interpretation of your link is that Christ was taking about "love" not liberalism. In that "parable" he also mentioned visiting those in prison, and the sick and that is not confined to "liberalism."


My link to the "Woe to you teachers of the law," Christ's chastisement of the Pharisees, I used it to suggest that Christ was also critical of those in authority (our government officials as well as the Pharisees) who, by their leadership inhibit, discourage, impede the "rising up" of the poor and destitute, by making policies that are intended to "help" the poor and destitute but often actually inhibit, discourage, impede the use of God given or Nature given talents so that an individual may "rise up" above being poor and destitute and who then may, by giving a hand/teaching, and encouraging others, to use their talents to "rise up." ..... and for those who do so, they shouldn't be called "Uncle Toms" for doing what Christ has asked...... thinking from a "Christian point of view.
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colo_crawdad
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Ban,

Perhaps I chose thw wrong word. Perhaps encouraged would have been a better word than demanded.

But, with that said your interpretation of what Christ was saying is d]significantly different from what I have been taught and what was found in the link I provided. I do think that what I have been taught as well as the explanation in the link I provided concerning Christianity might help you and others to better understand what some here like to refer to as the "liberal mindset." It has always been my belief, even when I was a registered Republican, that Christianity encourages "social liberalism." Of course,I know that at least one member here thinks I am a "far left extremist."
Edited by colo_crawdad, Mar 7 2014, 09:28 PM.
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Berton
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The problem with egalitarianism and envy is that they hinder human survival and success. In people’s private lives they lead to negativity, self-pity, and support of egalitarian laws and programs of governments (minimum wage laws, progressive income taxes, welfare programs, etc.). In business, the consequences of egalitarianism and envy are similar: antitrust laws, affirmative action laws, lobbying for government hand-outs and for protection against competition, etc. Egalitarianism and envy don’t lead to achievement of any positive values such as efforts at learning and self-improvement, or product innovation, increased cost efficiency, and wealth creation.

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Banandangees
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Everyone must interpret for themselves and I understand what your are saying. But I have shown you where in the same book (Matthew) that you quoted from, that Christ also was quoted as saying something that could be interpreted as conservatism and was just as emphatic about it. I don't believe that Christ meant anything he said as being pro-liberal or pro-conservative for political or social purposes other than what is right in the eyes of God, nor acted in liberal or conservative political nature. He, according to him, spoke what his Father "who sent him" intended him to say as part of the "new covenant." He did make one comment that could be interpreted as his form of "separation of church and state" when he said, "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's." .. (Mathew 22: 20-22). As I interpret from what I read and have learned from the gospels, is that Christ's words were not meant to be for or come from "governments of this world."

I'm am not saying that what you quoted and how you feel about that quote is wrong, it isn't. I'm only saying that the parable of the talents speaks to another human short coming of wasted talent, and another quote that addresses "authority" that takes away from or impedes those talents and caused him to show an uncharacteristic show of emotional anger.

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