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Oh oh!; Justice Blocks Obamacare Birth Control Mandate
Topic Started: Jan 2 2014, 07:51 PM (1,489 Views)
Banandangees
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colo_crawdad
Jan 5 2014, 01:08 AM
Just wondering. What re some of those non-Catholic institutions that oppose the use of contraception?

I'd have to refer you to Post #84 and say again:

"What difference does it make."

My only argument is that any religious institution that has the same beliefs on "birth control" inclusion as does the Catholic Church, they have the right to not be forced by the government (or anybody) to include such coverage in their insurance plan or, as Obama would have it, have those institutions request that the insurance companies providing the health care plan include and pay out of their pockets. That is still asking the institution to go against it's beliefs.

The judge who put a hold on that forced inclusion must have some concerns over the church vs state implications.
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Mountainrivers
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Banandangees
Jan 5 2014, 03:52 AM
Mountainrivers
Jan 4 2014, 09:41 PM
Same ole BS from the right wing. Ms. Fluke hasn't asked anybody, but those who would be covered by birth control, to pay for it. She simply asked that contraception be included in the insurance policies she and others are paying for.

"Law Center student Sandra Fluke petitioned the university to change its health insurance policy to include coverage for contraception for three years prior to addressing the issue before the House Democratic Steering and Policy Committee in 2012".


MR, can you show that Ms Fluke, who was a 3rd law student at Georgetown University when she addressed the US senate, was paying anything for her University provided healthcare insurance or was it included in her grant in aide?
First thing you need to recognize is that she wasn't asking for this for herself, but for other women at the school. Here's what she said: "I will have no choice at giving my mother her desperately desired grandbabies, simply because the insurance policy -- that I paid for, totally unsubsidized by my school -- wouldn't cover my prescription for birth control when I needed it
That was a quote from a friend of hers. I have no idea whether Ms. Fluke pays for her insurance or not, but that wasn't the question.

"See more at: http://angrybearblog.com/2012/03/will-we-really-be-paying-sandra-flukes.html#The government doesn’t pay student medical insurance premiums; the students do "- [/color

Source

If she received the grant, the money was hers and she paid for her insurance from that, I suppose.
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Mountainrivers
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Banandangees
Jan 5 2014, 03:57 AM
Mountainrivers
Jan 4 2014, 09:48 PM
People who work in the health care business, specifically hospitals, aren't able to just quit and go to work at another hospital because, in most cases, the other hospitals are also owned by the Catholic church. I would have no problem with the church rejecting contraception or anything else it feels violates its beliefs, but I would also not pay them for anything that is paid for by the public at large. I think, contrary to Mike's comments that the churches motive is altruistic, the motive is financial. They have discovered many ways to make huge amounts of money through businesses, not religion, by being able to claim non-profit status and thus, paying no taxes. It's a scam, imo. As is the concept of tithing and passing the collection plate at every opportunity.

MR, can you show that most hospitals in the US are owned by the Catholic Church as you say?

Your total post here is your opinion, not to mention absurd in terms of "payment for services."
Apparently 12% of the hospitals in the US are owned by the Catholic church. Here in central Nebraska, the only full service hospitals are in Grand Island and Kearney and they are both Catholic owned. I'm not knocking the hospitals service though. I've had two occasions to use those hospitals in the past three years and the care was superb. My concern is with the notion that anyone working for those hospitals can just go somewhere else if contraception isn't provided is ludicrous.
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colo_crawdad
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Still waiting for that list of mon-Catholic institutions that oppose contrcetption.
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Pat
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I understand the constitutional argument and won't be surprised if the court rules for the church. What the ruling does is piss off a lot of Catholic women who work for those institutions. Not many Catholics avoid birth control or abortions these days. If the church is interested in the greater good, then preventing unwanted births should fit in there some where. If those pills keep a woman from dying, I would think that would be important to. Just more hypocrisy Mike.
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Mountainrivers
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Pat
Jan 5 2014, 05:16 AM
I understand the constitutional argument and won't be surprised if the court rules for the church. What the ruling does is piss off a lot of Catholic women who work for those institutions. Not many Catholics avoid birth control or abortions these days. If the church is interested in the greater good, then preventing unwanted births should fit in there some where. If those pills keep a woman from dying, I would think that would be important to. Just more hypocrisy Mike.
I think there might be a more nuanced approach to the constitutional issues when it reaches the Supreme Court. I think that if a hospital, for any reason, denies care to patients, it should be denied tax dollars. That should change the attitude of the church.
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Neutral
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Our dictator will probably do just that.
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Banandangees
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Mountainrivers
Jan 5 2014, 04:28 AM
Banandangees
Jan 5 2014, 03:52 AM
Mountainrivers
Jan 4 2014, 09:41 PM
Same ole BS from the right wing. Ms. Fluke hasn't asked anybody, but those who would be covered by birth control, to pay for it. She simply asked that contraception be included in the insurance policies she and others are paying for.

"Law Center student Sandra Fluke petitioned the university to change its health insurance policy to include coverage for contraception for three years prior to addressing the issue before the House Democratic Steering and Policy Committee in 2012".


MR, can you show that Ms Fluke, who was a 3rd law student at Georgetown University when she addressed the US senate, was paying anything for her University provided healthcare insurance or was it included in her grant in aide?
First thing you need to recognize is that she wasn't asking for this for herself, but for other women at the school. Here's what she said: "I will have no choice at giving my mother her desperately desired grandbabies, simply because the insurance policy -- that I paid for, totally unsubsidized by my school -- wouldn't cover my prescription for birth control when I needed it
That was a quote from a friend of hers. I have no idea whether Ms. Fluke pays for her insurance or not, but that wasn't the question.

"See more at: http://angrybearblog.com/2012/03/will-we-really-be-paying-sandra-flukes.html#The government doesn’t pay student medical insurance premiums; the students do "- [/color

Source

If she received the grant, the money was hers and she paid for her insurance from that, I suppose.

Obviously, she wasn't asking it solely for herself, but as the quote you included shows: "I will have no choice at giving my mother her desperately desired grandbabies, simply because the insurance policy -- that I paid for, totally unsubsidized by my school -- wouldn't cover my prescription for birth control when I needed it.

What a totally ridiculous statement for a supposedly "intelligent" law student to say. Has she no will power?, no good judgment, no other means to purchase, or have her "partner" purchase relatively cheap contraception... cheap as compared to bearing a child? The institute has a right to include/exclude what ever it wants in it's chosen health care plans. Why should he institution include everything every student wishes to have included?

The fact is, the students have choices, just like the institutions do. The Constitutional has a church vs state clause which is exercised in many ways by federal, state and local public entities. This is one of them... so says the judge.
Edited by Banandangees, Jan 5 2014, 08:29 AM.
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Banandangees
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Mountainrivers
Jan 5 2014, 04:33 AM
Banandangees
Jan 5 2014, 03:57 AM
Mountainrivers
Jan 4 2014, 09:48 PM
People who work in the health care business, specifically hospitals, aren't able to just quit and go to work at another hospital because, in most cases, the other hospitals are also owned by the Catholic church. I would have no problem with the church rejecting contraception or anything else it feels violates its beliefs, but I would also not pay them for anything that is paid for by the public at large. I think, contrary to Mike's comments that the churches motive is altruistic, the motive is financial. They have discovered many ways to make huge amounts of money through businesses, not religion, by being able to claim non-profit status and thus, paying no taxes. It's a scam, imo. As is the concept of tithing and passing the collection plate at every opportunity.

MR, can you show that most hospitals in the US are owned by the Catholic Church as you say?

Your total post here is your opinion, not to mention absurd in terms of "payment for services."
Apparently 12% of the hospitals in the US are owned by the Catholic church. Here in central Nebraska, the only full service hospitals are in Grand Island and Kearney and they are both Catholic owned. I'm not knocking the hospitals service though. I've had two occasions to use those hospitals in the past three years and the care was superb. My concern is with the notion that anyone working for those hospitals can just go somewhere else if contraception isn't provided is ludicrous.
But you wrote "in most cases, the other hospitals are also woned by the Catholic Church" which isn't true as you now mention. Someone reading your first post might take your word for it unless they challenged you by doing their own research.

"My concern is with the notion that anyone working for those hospitals can just go somewhere else if contraception isn't provided is ludicrous."

Yes, it is ludicrous. I can't imagine someone having a job in a hospital (or anywhere else) and leaving just because their health care plan did not include "contraception."
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colo_crawdad
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Still waiting for that list o non-Catholic institutions that oppose contraception. If such a list does not exist,then bowing to the Catholic Church would violate the Constitution's prohibition against the "establishment" of a religion.
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