Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Democrats broke Illinois and now trying to break it's constitution too; what is it about Democrats and their inability to manage spending?
Topic Started: Dec 30 2013, 12:39 AM (1,213 Views)
Banandangees
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Mountainrivers
Dec 30 2013, 07:49 AM
"I've been there Neal and paid the bills"

Yes, but you weren't responsible for the bills that someone else ran up before you took office. Nor were you faced with a constitutional guarantee that those bills would have to be paid . Nor were you responsible for thousands, if not millions, of people who depend on the government for their livelihood. It's a difficult situation and there are no easy answers as some of your fellow conservatives seem to think.

But what's your answer when the money runs out and you,re $100 billion in debt and growing? $100 billion, that's a lot of money for a state public retirement debt..... and that is just pension debt.

Illinois total state debt is $271 billion. That's $21,040 owed by every man, woman and child in the state of Illinois. Who's going to bail them out? California?

California's total state debt is $618 billion. Maybe they can. In California, every man, woman and child only owes the state $16,300 for their fair share of that state's debt.

Or maybe New York State. Their state debt is over $300 billion. Every man, woman and child there owes $15,400 for their fair share of the debt.


Or perhaps a Federal Government bailout of Illinois. Only problem is the Federal Government is $17.3 trillion in debt. That's $55,300 that every man, woman and child in the US owes for their fair share of the national debt.


So, in Illinois, if you take the $21,040 of state debt owed by every man, woman and child, and add the $55,300 for their fair share of the Federal Government debt, that's $76,300 owed by every man, woman and child in the state of Illinois for their fair share. I'm sure the state legislators can find more ways of increasing that individual debt.

QESTION: Is it possible for the can to get so big and so heavy that legislators are no longer able to kick the debt can down the road? Then what?

I'd say that their pretty much bankrupt now and don't know it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pat
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Yep. THEN WHAT.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Banandangees
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Banandangees
Dec 30 2013, 09:33 AM

Illinois total state debt is $271 billion. That's $21,040 owed by every man, woman and child in the state of Illinois. Who's going to bail them out? California?

California's total state debt is $618 billion. Maybe they can. In California, every man, woman and child only owes the state $16,300 for their fair share of that state's debt.

Or maybe New York State. Their state debt is over $300 billion. Every man, woman and child there owes $15,400 for their fair share of the debt.


Or perhaps a Federal Government bailout of Illinois. Only problem is the Federal Government is $17.3 trillion in debt. That's $55,300 that every man, woman and child in the US owes for their fair share of the national debt.


So, in Illinois, if you take the $21,040 of state debt owed by every man, woman and child, and add the $55,300 for their fair share of the Federal Government debt, that's $76,300 owed by every man, woman and child in the state of Illinois for their fair share. I'm sure the state legislators can find more ways of increasing that individual debt.

QESTION: Is it possible for the can to get so big and so heavy that legislators are no longer able to kick the debt can down the road? Then what?

I'd say that their pretty much bankrupt now and don't know it.

For fun... as a comparison..... for perspective purposes only:

Nation.................................... national debt .................. every single person's fair share of national debt in dollars

US......................................... $17.25 trillion ................................... $55,300

Canada ................................ $662.5 billion ................................... $19,000 (Canadian)

Germany ............................. 2.16 trillion euros.............................. $36,000 (26,245 euros)

Greece ................................ 382.45 billion euros........................... $47,327 (33,816 euros)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In Ontario, Canada:

Provincial debt is $258 billion, with every man, woman and child owing just shy of $20,000 for their fair share of provincial debt. Add that to the $19,000 national debt owed by each person and every man, woman and child in Ontario owes $39,000 (but compare that to the $76,000 for those in Illinois) for their fair share of national and provincial debt. Not good, but not bad when you compare it to Germany, Greece and the US.

The individual debt for every person in the US stands out far and above those of other nations (especially in states like Illinois, California and NY). While we seem to be going along okay, at the pace we're going, the s--t's got to hit the fan sooner or later. It doesn't take a financial wizard to see it coming..... if you take a real look at it.
Edited by Banandangees, Dec 30 2013, 06:56 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mountainrivers
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Banandangees
Dec 30 2013, 06:54 PM
Banandangees
Dec 30 2013, 09:33 AM

Illinois total state debt is $271 billion. That's $21,040 owed by every man, woman and child in the state of Illinois. Who's going to bail them out? California?

California's total state debt is $618 billion. Maybe they can. In California, every man, woman and child only owes the state $16,300 for their fair share of that state's debt.

Or maybe New York State. Their state debt is over $300 billion. Every man, woman and child there owes $15,400 for their fair share of the debt.


Or perhaps a Federal Government bailout of Illinois. Only problem is the Federal Government is $17.3 trillion in debt. That's $55,300 that every man, woman and child in the US owes for their fair share of the national debt.


So, in Illinois, if you take the $21,040 of state debt owed by every man, woman and child, and add the $55,300 for their fair share of the Federal Government debt, that's $76,300 owed by every man, woman and child in the state of Illinois for their fair share. I'm sure the state legislators can find more ways of increasing that individual debt.

QESTION: Is it possible for the can to get so big and so heavy that legislators are no longer able to kick the debt can down the road? Then what?

I'd say that their pretty much bankrupt now and don't know it.

For fun... as a comparison..... for perspective purposes only:

Nation.................................... national debt .................. every single person's fair share of national debt in dollars

US......................................... $17.25 trillion ................................... $55,300

Canada ................................ $662.5 billion ................................... $19,000 (Canadian)

Germany ............................. 2.16 trillion euros.............................. $36,000 (26,245 euros)

Greece ................................ 382.45 billion euros........................... $47,327 (33,816 euros)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In Ontario, Canada:

Provincial debt is $258 billion, with every man, woman and child owing just shy of $20,000 for their fair share of provincial debt. Add that to the $19,000 national debt owed by each person and every man, woman and child in Ontario owes $39,000 (but compare that to the $76,000 for those in Illinois) for their fair share of national and provincial debt. Not good, but not bad when you compare it to Germany, Greece and the US.

The individual debt for every person in the US stands out far and above those of other nations (especially in states like Illinois, California and NY). While we seem to be going along okay, at the pace we're going, the s--t's got to hit the fan sooner or later. It doesn't take a financial wizard to see it coming..... if you take a real look at it.
As usual, you and Pat only point out the problems. We all know the problems. What I ask is what do you propose the states do about it now? What Illinois proposes to do is renege on its promise to its retirees. If you have a better idea, why not present it for discussion. This seems to be the only thing the right can do . BITCH! They have no alternatives.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Banandangees
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Well MR, what do you think of the facts as presented in my last post?

They are pure facts and they aren't from a right wing propaganda source as you requested.
Edited by Banandangees, Dec 30 2013, 10:09 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mountainrivers
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Banandangees
Dec 30 2013, 10:06 PM
Well MR, what do you think of the facts as presented in my last post?

They are pure facts and they aren't from a right wing propaganda source as you requested.
I understand the facts, Ban. What I want is for you to offer something as a solution rather than simply bitching. What possible good can that do?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Banandangees
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
How is the post a bitch MR. I just posted some actual facts about our and other nations financial welfare. I can't help it if you don't like to address financial facts. Your head in the sand appears to be a comfort to you.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mountainrivers
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Banandangees
Dec 30 2013, 10:21 PM
How is the post a bitch MR. I just posted some actual facts about our and other nations financial welfare. I can't help it if you don't like to address financial facts. Your head in the sand appears to be a comfort to you.
"But what's your answer when the money runs out and you,re $100 billion in debt and growing? $100 billion, that's a lot of money for a state public retirement debt..... and that is just pension debt."

That sounds like bitching to me. I didn't address the facts because I don't know what to do about it other than what Illinois is now trying to do. What, about my replies, leads you to think I have my head in the sand other than you have no other answer?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Banandangees
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Everything seems to sound like bitching to you if you don't like what's posted.

You always answer question with questions. It seems you feel the US is resolved to continue on it's financial course with the stumbling stone being those who are dependent (not including the physically and mentally impaired).
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mountainrivers
Member Avatar
Fire & Ice Senior Diplomat
[ * ]
Banandangees
Dec 30 2013, 10:32 PM
Everything seems to sound like bitching to you if you don't like what's posted.

You always answer question with questions. It seems you feel the US is resolved to continue on it's financial course with the stumbling stone being those who are dependent (not including the physically and mentally impaired).
I answer that way because I don't claim to know the answers. The way you post indicates to me that you think you do, so I question your certainty. No, I think there are other ways to deal with the financial crises other than putting people out on the street, hurting dependent children and allowing the wealthy to gain more wealth at the expense of everybody else. All you do is post negative stuff without offering any alternatives and in many cases without even a personal comment.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Fire And Ice General Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Website Traffic Analysis