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Democrats broke Illinois and now trying to break it's constitution too; what is it about Democrats and their inability to manage spending?
Topic Started: Dec 30 2013, 12:39 AM (1,205 Views)
Mountainrivers
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Banandangees
Jan 1 2014, 04:58 AM
tomdrobin
Jan 1 2014, 04:14 AM
Here is an extensive discussion of the public pension problem in Illinois. It is quite long but a good read if your interested in facts over propaganda.

One interesting note in the article.

Quote:
 
Against that backdrop, an array of labor groups pushed to add pension protections to the convention agenda. In what might seem ironic given today's political sensibilities, the four principal sponsors who put together the pension proposal were all Republicans.

They included Kinney, later a DuPage County judge; Anthony Peccarelli, that county's future chief judge and state's attorney; Henry Green, a land developer from Urbana; and Donald Zeglis, a lawyer and education advocate from Kankakee County. All are now dead.


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-09-22/news/ct-met-public-pensions-1970-20130923_1_pension-clause-pension-debate-constitutional-convention/2

In the words of our next-to-be president, Hillary Clinton, "What difference does it make?"


Quote:
 
A decade or more ago, Canadian liberals made fiscal conservative decisions to lift Canada out of there fiscal problems.

In Illinois, in 1970, (4) Republicans made fiscal liberal decisions to satisfy a Democrat electorate base that helped put Illinois into their fiscal deficit.



Fiscal conservative policies that exceed social expenditures = balance, reduced deficits or surplus. Makes no difference who makes the decisions.

Liberal social programs that exceed fiscal conservative policies = deficits = Illinois. Makes no difference who makes the decisions.



William Jefferson Clinton, a liberal Democrat in his second term, made fiscally conservative decisions (with Congress) that left with a surplus.

George W. Bush, a conservative Republican, made fiscally liberal policies (with Congress) that left with a deficit.

Barack H. Obama, a liberal Democrat, is making liberal social policies that exceed fiscal policies that are deepening the deficit.
"Barack H. Obama, a liberal Democrat, is making liberal social policies that exceed fiscal policies that are deepening the deficit.

Wrong! The deficit has decreased considerably under Obama.

"In the words of our next-to-be president, Hillary Clinton, "What difference does it make?"

If you're going to quote her, at least quote the whole sentence. It makes all the difference in the meaning.

""What difference does it make at this point".

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Banandangees
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Deficit/Debt, ..... What difference does it make ..... at this point, it's $54,435 debt for each and every person in America..... and growing.

To those in Illinois, $76,000 to each and every person and growing.

Facts as they stand.
Edited by Banandangees, Jan 1 2014, 05:22 AM.
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Mountainrivers
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Banandangees
Jan 1 2014, 05:22 AM
Deficit/Debt, ..... What difference does it make ..... at this point, it's $54,435 debt for each and every person in America..... and growing.

To those in Illinois, $76,000 to each and every person and growing.

Facts as they stand.
If you're going to talk about the debt, don't call it the deficit.
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Mountainrivers
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Mountainrivers
Jan 1 2014, 05:23 AM
Banandangees
Jan 1 2014, 05:22 AM
Deficit/Debt, ..... What difference does it make ..... at this point, it's $54,435 debt for each and every person in America..... and growing.

To those in Illinois, $76,000 to each and every person and growing.

Facts as they stand.
If you're going to talk about the debt, don't call it the deficit.
"As you can see from this chart from Deutsche Bank's David Bianco, Obama has been one of the most effective presidents in American history to reduce deficit levels.

On a related note, the latest jobs report showed that Obama continues to be a destroyer of government jobs.

source
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Banandangees
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Mountainrivers
Jan 1 2014, 05:27 AM
Mountainrivers
Jan 1 2014, 05:23 AM
Banandangees
Jan 1 2014, 05:22 AM
Deficit/Debt, ..... What difference does it make ..... at this point, it's $54,435 debt for each and every person in America..... and growing.

To those in Illinois, $76,000 to each and every person and growing.

Facts as they stand.
If you're going to talk about the debt, don't call it the deficit.
"As you can see from this chart from Deutsche Bank's David Bianco, Obama has been one of the most effective presidents in American history to reduce deficit levels.

On a related note, the latest jobs report showed that Obama continues to be a destroyer of government jobs.

source

Looking at the chart in your link, if it's correct, the blue line (deficit as % of GDP) started up when Bush took office and has continued up after Obama took office without a down turn. That blue line, according to the label on the chart, represents "deficit as related to (% of) GDP." So, how is the nations fiscal health better?

Addendum: Especially since the debt since 2009 has gone from $12 trillion to over $17 trillion in five years and countin.
Edited by Banandangees, Jan 1 2014, 08:09 AM.
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Mike
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Hmmm...From one who has sat on advisory committees in several cities I think there needs to be some debunking of some common misconceptions. The key being that governments are conspiring to break the bank and lead us all into public default. I believe there also need to be a debate centered on what responsibility we have as stewards of wealth...of resources.

The reason government has existed throughout the ages is to insure a steady hand of stewardship..when those charged abandoned this duty the government failed. I won't argue that there have not been many scoundrels in government..for human weakness and temptation is a fact of this life. Stewardship issues evolved to include private property rights however the personal responsibility to serve and participate in the general welfare of the community never ceased. It is our God bound duty to utilize wealth and resources for the good of all.

We don't own anything of this earth.

We must not confuse private property rights.. which are a product of man's evolved way of providing a balanced commerce..in any manner that conflicts with our basic human responsibility as stewards first and most importantly as nurturers and protectors of the less fortunate among us.

The debt I read bantered about, is a ledger of the amount of greed and abandonment of God's will. I don't expect any here to accept my manner of worship but if you are a Christian then what I have provided is theologically sound in reason and doctrine. If you are concerned with public dept then you should be more concerned with the failings of all of us in our duty to the Lord. Misplacing of anger and concern can be understood, given the level of anti Christian propaganda perpetrated by the Godless worshipers of man and wealth...by those that hold dear to their hearts objects... rather than a love for others and obedience to the One who provided everything in this universe.

I believe that such a grievous sin against the Lord and his will has occurred... that penance should begin with the clearing of all ledgers of public dept. And this should be followed closely with new budgets and new taxes of equity, where those who have clung to that which is not theirs..return it to the community for good works. The role of government is to serve and act as stewards.
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Mountainrivers
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Mike
Jan 3 2014, 12:52 AM
Hmmm...From one who has sat on advisory committees in several cities I think there needs to be some debunking of some common misconceptions. The key being that governments are conspiring to break the bank and lead us all into public default. I believe there also need to be a debate centered on what responsibility we have as stewards of wealth...of resources.

The reason government has existed throughout the ages is to insure a steady hand of stewardship..when those charged abandoned this duty the government failed. I won't argue that there have not been many scoundrels in government..for human weakness and temptation is a fact of this life. Stewardship issues evolved to include private property rights however the personal responsibility to serve and participate in the general welfare of the community never ceased. It is our God bound duty to utilize wealth and resources for the good of all.

We don't own anything of this earth.

We must not confuse private property rights.. which are a product of man's evolved way of providing a balanced commerce..in any manner that conflicts with our basic human responsibility as stewards first and most importantly as nurturers and protectors of the less fortunate among us.

The debt I read bantered about, is a ledger of the amount of greed and abandonment of God's will. I don't expect any here to accept my manner of worship but if you are a Christian then what I have provided is theologically sound in reason and doctrine. If you are concerned with public dept then you should be more concerned with the failings of all of us in our duty to the Lord. Misplacing of anger and concern can be understood, given the level of anti Christian propaganda perpetrated by the Godless worshipers of man and wealth...by those that hold dear to their hearts objects... rather than a love for others and obedience to the One who provided everything in this universe.

I believe that such a grievous sin against the Lord and his will has occurred... that penance should begin with the clearing of all ledgers of public dept. And this should be followed closely with new budgets and new taxes of equity, where those who have clung to that which is not theirs..return it to the community for good works. The role of government is to serve and act as stewards.
Oh no, Mike. You are about to be accused of being a socialist, or worse, a communist.
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Mountainrivers
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Banandangees
Jan 1 2014, 08:03 AM
Mountainrivers
Jan 1 2014, 05:27 AM
Mountainrivers
Jan 1 2014, 05:23 AM
Banandangees
Jan 1 2014, 05:22 AM
Deficit/Debt, ..... What difference does it make ..... at this point, it's $54,435 debt for each and every person in America..... and growing.

To those in Illinois, $76,000 to each and every person and growing.

Facts as they stand.
If you're going to talk about the debt, don't call it the deficit.
"As you can see from this chart from Deutsche Bank's David Bianco, Obama has been one of the most effective presidents in American history to reduce deficit levels.

On a related note, the latest jobs report showed that Obama continues to be a destroyer of government jobs.

source

Looking at the chart in your link, if it's correct, the blue line (deficit as % of GDP) started up when Bush took office and has continued up after Obama took office without a down turn. That blue line, according to the label on the chart, represents "deficit as related to (% of) GDP." So, how is the nations fiscal health better?

Addendum: Especially since the debt since 2009 has gone from $12 trillion to over $17 trillion in five years and countin.
You keep talking about debt, when the argument is about the deficit. The reason for the rise in the % of GDP is because of the slow down as a result of the recession. Obama didn't create the recession, he inherited it. You can argue that the measures taken were the wrong ones, but to say that Obama hasn't reduced the deficit is incorrect.
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