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A question to Christians here; Phil Robertson's comments
Topic Started: Dec 22 2013, 01:22 AM (656 Views)
Brewster
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Ahh I see the addendum now. OK
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Pat
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telcoman
Dec 22 2013, 01:34 AM
Ever notice how the righties here who often claim to be Christain act very much in ways or have attitiudes, that indicate they are not?
That's two off topic comments Telco, rest it. I'm interested in an adult conversation about the subject. My comment to Brew is this, Jesus is said to have hung out with a wide mix of people. He told one prostitute to go and sin no more. He never said he forgave her, just to not sin anymore. He told some rich guy that it was easier to pass through an eye of the needle than to go to the Christian heaven. He was a Rabbi, a Jew and therefore would have taken to heart the Old Testament teachings against sodomy and gay relationships. I'm far from an expert on this which is why I asked the Christians here to give me their take in all of this. There seems to be a line in the sand that Christians lay and the GLADD crowd has crossed it as far as Christian professed belief is concerned.
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Neutral
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What he said is believed by many Christians as witnessed by the outrage over him being on hiatus. He is probably a hypocrite as are most religious people but it is his right to say it.
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Banandangees
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Pat
Dec 22 2013, 02:05 AM
telcoman
Dec 22 2013, 01:34 AM
Ever notice how the righties here who often claim to be Christain act very much in ways or have attitiudes, that indicate they are not?
That's two off topic comments Telco, rest it. I'm interested in an adult conversation about the subject. My comment to Brew is this, Jesus is said to have hung out with a wide mix of people. He told one prostitute to go and sin no more. He never said he forgave her, just to not sin anymore. He told some rich guy that it was easier to pass through an eye of the needle than to go to the Christian heaven. He was a Rabbi, a Jew and therefore would have taken to heart the Old Testament teachings against sodomy and gay relationships. I'm far from an expert on this which is why I asked the Christians here to give me their take in all of this. There seems to be a line in the sand that Christians lay and the GLADD crowd has crossed it as far as Christian professed belief is concerned.

It is suggested/estimated by biblical scholars that Isaiah lived 600 to 700 years before Christ.

Isaiah 53:1-12. I suggest that you read that chapter. Isaiah prophesized the coming of Jesus, why he "was sent," what would be done with him and his purpose. Maybe you would want to discuss that chapter.

"... surely he took up or infirmities
and carried our sorrows,...

But he was pierced for our transgressions
he was crushed for our iniquities, the punishment
that brought us peace was upon him
and by his wounds we are healed.
"


Then, in John chapter 3, Christ, talking with Nicodemus (a Pharisee), explained to him (and all those who might be interested) that he came to the world not to condemn it but to save it. Meaning, that everyone is or has been "sinful." As Isaiah prophesized, Christ would be the lamb, led to slaughter .... the sacrifice for "our transgressions:"


My interpretation of that is .... it doesn't matter the sin..... homosexuality, heterosexuality, prostitution, thief.... his "wounds" were to heal all who open their arms to him. Not really asking a hell of a whole lot. But, then there is human vanity that gets in the way I suppose.

Would Christ look any differently at a homosexual than at a heterosexual, or the "prostitute" or rich man or any of us on this forum in terms of why he "was sent," for his love for each. I don't think so. (IMO)
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Mountainrivers
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Banandangees
Dec 22 2013, 04:54 AM
Pat
Dec 22 2013, 02:05 AM
telcoman
Dec 22 2013, 01:34 AM
Ever notice how the righties here who often claim to be Christain act very much in ways or have attitiudes, that indicate they are not?
That's two off topic comments Telco, rest it. I'm interested in an adult conversation about the subject. My comment to Brew is this, Jesus is said to have hung out with a wide mix of people. He told one prostitute to go and sin no more. He never said he forgave her, just to not sin anymore. He told some rich guy that it was easier to pass through an eye of the needle than to go to the Christian heaven. He was a Rabbi, a Jew and therefore would have taken to heart the Old Testament teachings against sodomy and gay relationships. I'm far from an expert on this which is why I asked the Christians here to give me their take in all of this. There seems to be a line in the sand that Christians lay and the GLADD crowd has crossed it as far as Christian professed belief is concerned.

It is suggested/estimated by biblical scholars that Isaiah lived 600 to 700 years before Christ.

Isaiah 53:1-12. I suggest that you read that chapter. Isaiah prophesized the coming of Jesus, why he "was sent," what would be done with him and his purpose. Maybe you would want to discuss that chapter.

"... surely he took up or infirmities
and carried our sorrows,...

But he was pierced for our transgressions
he was crushed for our iniquities, the punishment
that brought us peace was upon him
and by his wounds we are healed.
"


Then, in John chapter 3, Christ, talking with Nicodemus (a Pharisee), explained to him (and all those who might be interested) that he came to the world not to condemn it but to save it. Meaning, that everyone is or has been "sinful." As Isaiah prophesized, Christ would be the lamb, led to slaughter .... the sacrifice for "our transgressions:"


My interpretation of that is .... it doesn't matter the sin..... homosexuality, heterosexuality, prostitution, thief.... his "wounds" were to heal all who open their arms to him. Not really asking a hell of a whole lot. But, then there is human vanity that gets in the way I suppose.

Would Christ look any differently at a homosexual than at a heterosexual, or the "prostitute" or rich man or any of us on this forum in terms of why he "was sent," for his love for each. I don't think so. (IMO)
"the sacrifice for "our transgressions:"

That particular part of Christianity has always puzzled me. If God, the all-powerful, wanted to save us, why crucify someone? Why not just do it. It all sounds like manipulation to control the masses to me. All religions do that, imo. People who discovered how gullible people really are and take advantage of them by "accepting" their tithes and other gifts to the clergy, and telling them they are saved from who knows what.
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Banandangees
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MR, if you want to try to understand it, I suggest that you spend some time reading it. But, you're entitled to your own opinion. I have mine.
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Mountainrivers
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Banandangees
Dec 22 2013, 05:13 AM
MR, if you want to try to understand it, I suggest that you spend some time reading it. But, you're entitled to your own opinion. I have mine.
Well, my opinion is that whoever wrote the bible had an ulterior motive for doing it, so just reading what somebody wrote and many have interpreted and re-interpreted over the centuries would have no bearing on what I think about it. I'm not trying to change your mind.
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Banandangees
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Oh! Maybe you know more about the bible than I thought. What was the motive? Who wrote the bible? The Pope maybe?

You can't change my mind. Only I can change my mind.

Pat was curious as to what some of us thought about his questions. I just gave him my opinion and a basis for it. I'm not trying to change anyone's beliefs either. Everyone has to make up their own mind... see, that's the key. You have free will to decide, choice was still allowed, a God is letting it up to you..... but, you still have to give to Caesar that which is Caesar's, but not your free will, that's yours.
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Mountainrivers
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Banandangees
Dec 22 2013, 05:39 AM
Oh! Maybe you know more about the bible than I thought. What was the motive? Who wrote the bible? The Pope maybe?

You can't change my mind. Only I can change my mind.

Pat was curious as to what some of us thought about his questions. I just gave him my opinion and a basis for it. I'm not trying to change anyone's beliefs either. Everyone has to make up their own mind... see, that's the key. You have free will to decide, choice was still allowed, a God is letting it up to you..... but, you still have to give to Caesar that which is Caesar's, but not your free will, that's yours.
I don't know who wrote the bible. Its' attributed to many people. I've already stated what I believe to be the motive. As I said, I wasn't trying to change your mind, so telling me I can't is a moot point. Threads like these tend to vary from the OP and that's what has happened here. It's only your opinion that a god lets me enjoy free will. How do you know that? I give to Caesar because I have to if I want the things I need and Caesar can take my free will away from me anytime he wants to by imprisoning me.
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Banandangees
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See, I disagree with you about free will. Even in prison, who's to stop you from thinking what your want, believing what you want, disbelieving what you want.... who? You can die believing and thinking what you want..... unless they give you a lobotomy, then you really aren't much mentally here anyway.....

Addendum: But getting back to Pat's first post, "do you agree with his (the Duck Dynasty guy) summation of biblical teaching? No, I don't agree with it.

Ya know, I'm not a good judge of his character (this Duck guy) as I have never seen that show. I figured it would be similar to the "swamp hunter" show, which I have never watched yet either.

Boy, my wife is making some bean and ham soup and just added some sautéed garlic and onions and the aroma is getting the better of my free will right now. I'm about to sample some.
Edited by Banandangees, Dec 22 2013, 06:13 AM.
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