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Why there is no global warming war and never has been; history
Topic Started: Dec 15 2013, 02:25 AM (1,356 Views)
Brewster
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The Chinese Are Coming!
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Neutral
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I suppose the Chinese are selling their junk to us.
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Pat
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Brewster
Dec 16 2013, 03:35 AM
Pat
Dec 16 2013, 01:04 AM
Have you ever been to China Brew, I'm not talking about the great wall, I'm talking about industrialized China and it's large population centers. If so, then tell me why you believe that country is leading the world on anything along this line other than in pollution.
Pat, Is there some sort of unwritten law that insists the US Right must ignore the big picture?

I'm more than aware of China's pollution problems. But it isn't where they ARE, but where they're GOING that matters. And they're pumping out Renewables at a pace that should be scaring the sh*t out of the rest of the world. Their problem is that their economy is accelerating even faster, meaning that so far their pollution problems are still growing.

But there is no doubt that their Renewable production will fulfill all their needs by 2025 at the latest..

In the meantime, the US and Canada are growing the dirtiest and/or most dangerous forms of energy production ever discovered. The only thing saving us is that the high cost of coal has cut the use of that poison for now - But every expert I've read says that what we're doing with fracking is burning the candle at both ends - fracked wells only work for a year or so, then they're done.

What happens when natural gas runs out? We'll be back on coal, and needing more than we ever did before. Nobody in North America can see past the end of their noses.

Wikipedia
 
Renewable energy is helping the People's Republic of China complete its economic transformation and achieve energy security. China has progressed rapidly along the path of renewable energy development.

About 17 percent of China's electricity came from renewable sources in 2007, led by the world's largest number of hydroelectric generators. China had a total installed capacity of hydropower of 197 GWatt in 2009. Technology development and increased amounts of investment in renewable energy technologies and installations increased markedly throughout the 2000s in China, and investment in renewable energy is now part of China's economic stimulus strategy. Researchers from Harvard University and Tsinghua University have found that the People's Republic could meet all of its electricity demands from wind power by 2030.

Hydropower

China's installed hydropower capacity surpassed 200 GW in late August 2010. It is expected that the installation of hydropower could reach 210 GW by the end of 2010.

On April 6, 2007, the Gansu Dang River Hydropower Project was registered as a Clean Development Mechanism (CDM) project in accordance with the requirements of the Kyoto Protocol to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change. The project consists of the construction and operation of eight run-of-river hydropower plants providing total capacity of 35.4 GW, which will generate an average of 224 GWh/year. The power generated by the project, which is located in Dang Town, Subei Mongolian Autonomous County, Gansu Province, China, and which was certified by the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC) to be in compliance with the "Measures for the Operation and Management of Clean Development Mechanism Projects in China", will be sold to the Gansu power grid which is part of the China Northwest Regional Power Grid (NWPG), thereby displacing equivalent amounts of electricity generated by the current mix of power sold to the NWPG. The developer of the Gansu Dang River Hydropower Project, which started construction on November 1, 2004, is the Jiayuguan City Tongyuan Hydropower Co., Ltd. The Letter of Approval of the NDRC permits the Jiayuguan City Tongyuan Hydropower Co., Ltd. to transfer to Japan Carbon Finance, Ltd., an entity approved by the government of Japan no more than 1.2 megatons of carbon dioxide emissions in total Certified Emission Reductions (CERs) over the seven-year period beginning on May 1, 2007, and ending on April 30, 2014.

In 2006 there was 10 GW of installed hydropower capacity that went into operation in China. The National Development and Reform Commission also approved thirteen additional hydropower projects in 2006, which cumulatively will have 19.5 GW of power generating capacity. New hydropower projects that were approved and began construction in 2006 include the Jinsha River Xiangjiaba Dam (6000 MW), the Yalong River Mianpi (Second Phase) (4800 MW), the Lancang River Jinghong Dam (1750 MW), the Beipan River Guangzhao (1040 MW) and the Wu River Silin Dam (1080 MW). In 2005 the following hydroelectric power projects were approved by the NDRC and began construction: the Jinsha River Xiluo Crossing (12600 MW); the Yellow River Laxiwa Dam (4200 MW) and the Yalong River Mianpi (First Phase) (3600 MW).

Wind power

China has the largest wind resources in the world and three-quarters of wind farms are offshore. In 2008 China was the fourth largest producer of wind power after the United States, Germany, and Spain. At the end of 2008, wind power in China accounted for 12.2 GW of electricity generating capacity, while in 2009 China had total installed windpower capacity up to 26 GW. China has identified wind power as a key growth component of the country's economy. As of 2010, China has become the world's largest maker of wind turbines, surpassing Denmark, Germany, Spain, and the United States.

The initial future target set by the Chinese government was 10 GW by 2010, but the total installed capacity for wind power generation in China had already reached 25.1 GW by the end of 2009.China aims to have 100 GW of wind power capacity by 2020. China encourages foreign companies, especially from the USA to visit and invest in Wind Power Generation.

Solar power

China produces 30% of the world's solar photovoltaics (PV). It has emerged as the world's largest manufacturer of solar panels in the last two years.

China has become a world leader in the manufacture of solar photovoltaic technology, with its six biggest solar companies having a combined value of over $15 billion. Around 820 MW of solar PV were produced in China in 2007, second only to Japan.

Following the new incentive scheme of Golden Sun announced by the government in 2009, there are numerous recent developments and plans announced by industry players that became part of the milestones for solar industry and technology development in China, such as the new thin film solar plant developed by Anwell Technologies in the Henan province using its own proprietary solar technology. The agreement was signed by LDK for a 500 MW solar project in the desert, alongside First Solar and Ordos City.

About 50 MW of installed solar capacity was added in 2008, more than double the 20 MW capacity of 2007. According to some studies, the demand in China for new solar modules could be as high as 232 MW each year from now on until 2012. The government has announced plans to expand the installed capacity to 20 GW by 2020. If Chinese companies manage to develop low cost, reliable solar modules, then the sky is the limit for a country that is desperate to reduce its dependence on coal and oil imports as well as the pressure on its environment by using renewable energy.

Biomass and Biofuel

China emerged as the world's third largest producer of ethanol-based bio-fuels (after the U.S and Brazil) at the end of the 10th Five Year Plan Period in 2005 and at present ethanol accounts for 20% of total automotive fuel consumption in China.

Work has begun on the ¥250 million Kaiyou Green Energy Biomass (Rice Husks) Power Generating project located in the Suqian City Economic Development Zone in Jiangsu Province. The Kaiyou Green Energy Biomass Power project will generate 144 GWh/year and use 200 kilotons/year of crop waste as inputs.

Bioenergy is also used at the domestic level in China, both in biomass stoves and by producing biogas from animal manure.

Geothermal

Geothermal resources in China are abundant and widely distributed throughout the country. There are over 2,700 hot springs occurring at the surface, with temperatures exceeding 250°C. In 1990, the total flow rate of thermal water for direct uses amounted to over 9,500 kg/s, making China the second direct user of geothermal energy in the world.
LINK

Oh well, I'm sure the US and Canada won't mind being third world countries. Our kids will do well flipping Burgers.

In the meantime, some on this board get upset when I say both our countries are on their way to being Bankrupt Sewers.
Google the company Solar City Brew, and while you are at it Tesla Motors and Space X. The same guy owns all three. He founded a little company after high school in South Africa while living in Canada. It put Yellow Pages on the internet. He sold that one for a few million and then after moving to California founded another little company you might have heard of, PayPal. The sale of that one gave him about $150 mil. He always like outer space and decided to learn how to become a rocket scientist, which he did. Nobody was going to Mars or exploring space so he decided to do it. NASA gave him a contract worth $billions to handle space transportation for them. He also thought renewables were the future so set his brother up to run his Solar City company. Oh, and while juggling all of that, started Tesla Motors. I just saw on the news today a photo of a Tesla filler up facility that was packed with Tesla's getting a charge. Solar City not only survived the recession but is everywhere--commercial and residential.

Now take a trip to any metro area in the country, outside the rare weather occurrence where a temperature inversion traps air over an area, do you see anything that remotely resembles our country in the 70's? When was the last time the Detroit river caught fire?

To say that China is anywhere near taking over the world with renewables is extremely premature. Talk is cheap let's see the results. America is not the land of tar sands and it's not the land of smog and industrial waste. We have the cleanest coal fired, gas fired, oil fired, and nuclear fired energy facilities in the world.

Why did I bring any of this up? To lend perspective of your man love for China. Now let's turn to reality on the global warming stage. Before China cleans up that cess pool of a country and long before Canada even thinks about going green, the compounding affect of global temperatures and melting ice will be well on it's way to disrupting civilization. While Al Gore jets around to climate treaty cocktail parties, where it is all hat and no cow, food production will be ruined in many farm belts and insurance companies will be seeking bailouts for the cost of covering wiped out metro regions along the eastern and western seaboards. A few hurricanes will have taken out the gulf coast so no need to worry about that region. The horses already left the barn Brew, wake up. It's time for those who want to protect their gene pool to make relocation plans and divest from areas affected. This is not hard to figure out, you can look at previous migration paths that humans have used and where they staked a claim when sea waters raised and when agriculture became non sustainable.

Yea I know, Pat has lost it.
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Brewster
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Nope. Pat is looking for an excuse to do nothing.

Yes, Pat, there are many individual entrepreneurs in the US and elsewhere who are doing some very interesting stuff, but this has gone well past individual action.

To look at overall numbers of where renewables are being built and claim it's a "love for China" is silly - I'm scared stiff of China. The rest of the world has to wake up, or the Chinese will take over everything that matters. We need a major push, the kind that can only come from the top.

We have waited too long. We are down to three possible scenarios:

1) Each country can put an effective Carbon Tax on everything within the next 4-5 years, and take that tax money and invest it entirely into developing and installing Green Tech. That will start turning the financial corner in about 2030, and the environmental corner in about 2050, after many disasters of the type you have mentioned.

2) We can sit on our collective *sses, living as we are now, and watching the disasters mount, until things get so bad that we HAVE to buy technology from China, and bankrupt ourselves in the process.

3) We can wait too long, or China doesn't get up to speed in time. If that happens, the whole D*mn civilization will go down the tubes, and we'll end up with only a couple of hundred thousand people left, living in the stone age.
Edited by Brewster, Dec 16 2013, 05:04 AM.
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Pat
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Yes we could do those things but we won't. We have/had a war on drugs. It went nowhere fast. We had Wall Street and financial centers around the world damn near ruin the global economy. After all the hand wringing they are right back at it again. So much for the war against scoundrels. A couple of countries might ad a carbon tax and China will laugh at them and take advantage of the higher costs of production by stealing market share. I think I'll take the logical approach, why throw good money down a toilet. Human nature will result in the loss of billions of lives and there will be far less need for industry, polluting industry. After a few hundred years the atmosphere will be clean. Just in time for an Ice Age.
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Berton
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Solar, AMO, & PDO cycles combined reproduce the global climate of the past

Guest essay by H. Luedecke and C.O.Weiss

We reported recently about our publication [1] which shows that during the last centuries all climate changes were caused by periodic ( i.e. natural ) processes. Non-periodic processes like a warming through the monotonic increase of CO2 in the atmosphere could cause at most 0.1° to 0.2° warming for a doubling of the CO2 content, as it is expected for 2100, within the uncertainty of the analysis.

We find that 2 cycles of periods 200+ years and ~65 years determine practically completely the climate changes. All other cycles are weaker and non-periodic processes play no significant role.

.............

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/12/17/solar-amo-pdo-cycles-combined-reproduce-the-global-climate-of-the-past/
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Pat
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There were not 7 billion people during those past events and all their polluting activity. My suggestion is that you make relocation plans for the ones you love, you might not live to reap the benefits but you just might save your gene pool.
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Berton
Dec 18 2013, 12:20 AM
Solar, AMO, & PDO cycles combined reproduce the global climate of the past

Guest essay by H. Luedecke and C.O.Weiss

We reported recently about our publication [1] which shows that during the last centuries all climate changes were caused by periodic ( i.e. natural ) processes. Non-periodic processes like a warming through the monotonic increase of CO2 in the atmosphere could cause at most 0.1° to 0.2° warming for a doubling of the CO2 content, as it is expected for 2100, within the uncertainty of the analysis.

We find that 2 cycles of periods 200+ years and ~65 years determine practically completely the climate changes. All other cycles are weaker and non-periodic processes play no significant role.

.............

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/12/17/solar-amo-pdo-cycles-combined-reproduce-the-global-climate-of-the-past/
You look pretty ridiculous when you keep posting from a known BS site run by a washed out TV weatherman. If you are not smart enough to do yoru own research rather than having opinions spoon fed to you by a politcal blog site, that is one thing. I do not really think you are that gullible & dumb, so why are you acting like it?
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Neutral
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More attacking the source.
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You bet. Especially when the source has nothing to do with facts, of course he will be called on it. You sure would have made a good Goebbels fan if you ahd been born a few decades earlier, if you think sources should not be questioned.

Now why am i not surprised?
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